Higher Calcium Level for SPS Growth? (vs Health)

[Wally.B]

One Man's TRASH is another Man's TREASURE

So my neighbour was walking to the curb to throw out his son broken Terrarium (door cracked).

I thought instantly that would make a better Rock Scrubbing station than my bins, since see thru and shallow.

I put it to good use, taking out the easy to remove rocks and scrubbed them clean, and rinsed. I figure this is my last chance for a rock cleaning before SPS get to big and delicate.

Thought I could put rocks back same, but it was like a puzzle with a missing piece, so tank came out a bit different.

Here is new clean tank, and slightly new look.

I also have news on water chemistry. (Alk, Calc, Mag all stable and correct)
HOWEVER, My Nitrate and Phosphate was up (tested before water change)

Nitrate = 5 ppm
Phosphate = .14 (Hanna Phosphurous)
Phosphate = .08 (Nanna Phosphate kit)


I figure this higher Phosphate level is showing up since Algae growth has stopped.

Will test again after this water change, when water clears up.

With tank now 90% Algae free, Full CUC, and new light schedule, and lesson learned about over feeding corals. Hoping for a more prosperous future.


NEXT JOURNEY: More Fish !!

 

[pimp2daizzo]

i think stability and patience are key for sps.

+1

 

[Wally.B]

Originally Posted by pife View Post
i think stability and patience are key for sps.

+1

I agree with both of you 100%.

However that was my philosophy when I started this first SPS tank.

8 months (which was patient) of razor sharp stability (ALK, CALC, MAG, Salinity, Temp) with pristine clear water, and no algae, resulted in unhealthy, pale, barely growing corals. (just alive).

Thus the start of this whole thread for help.

The missing piece was nutrients, and my adjustments led me to color & coral health improvements, BUT I went overboard, leading to a Algae/Cyano problem (and too much tinkering during that phase).

I've learned my lesson, and going back to where I started (with more fish, for "natural waste nutrients" and proper export, which was the first advice given).

 

[Wally.B]

Starting ZeoVit Cyano Clean Treatment:

Tank is sparling clean after scrubbing, but Cyano is lurking, even though not visible on rocks YET.

So the CyanoClean order arrive today and I've started treatment.

This pump was just cleaned and already I see Cyano starting (since highest in tank, thus most lighting).

I'll be watching this Cyano spot to see if the CyanoClean works, and when I can roughly stop the treatment.

I'll KNOW if TREATMENT WORKS if Cyano Goes away by itself. Since in the past, it never got better, it just got worse and spread.

 

[Wally.B]

DREAM come True. Got an Apogee MQ-200 PAR meter ($20). Finally I'll figure out my lights.

So as per previous Post, I've changed my lighting schedule and things appear to be good. REALLY GOOD so far.

But still have no clue is the lighting is enough/ideal. How high to put fixture. How long to run T5, MH, Where to place SPS corals, etc.

So I surfed around again, to see if anyone is renting, since buying A PAR meter for mega bucks is not worth one measurement. (Last time I found nobody renting).

TODAY I found a place in Canada (Hoskin Scientific Ltd.). http://www.hoskin.ca/contact-us
They just got an Apogee MQ-200 PAR meter and they rent for $20 a day or $60 a week.
For you Canadians they are in BC, Ontario, Quebec, And Alberta.
(They will ship the rental to you if too far away). Still way cheaper than buying one for a one time use.

I picked it up today and going to spend weekend Measuring my tanks, and various light combos.

Brand new unit, I'm first to rent it!! . Told the really friendly and helpful "Steve" I'll post this, so they get more rental business.

I just posted this thread for advice how to use it.... Need Advice how to Use a PAR Meter (To figure out My Lights) Height, PhotoPeriod

Dream come true.

Will post my results soon.

 

[Chibils]

Make sure to post a good pic of your tank with PAR numbers drawn on it -- it's very helpful for you and for us to be able to see what spots are getting what light!

 

[reefmutt]

That's very interesting, Wally.
I'm curious to see what your par numbers are..
I will be looking them up in Quebec to rent one as well.
Thanks for the info..
By the way, I have not tried Zeo's cyano clean but I have heard a few people having succes with the zeobac/zeozyme combo.. I have been trying it myself to deal with some green slime but I have also changed a couple other things, as well so I can't really say that that specific product is helping me..

 

[Wally.B]

By the way, I have not tried Zeo's cyano clean but I have heard a few people having succes with the zeobac/zeozyme combo.. I have been trying it myself to deal with some green slime but I have also changed a couple other things, as well so I can't really say that that specific product is helping me..

(For my other tank that had Cyano). I used ZeoBak with Zeo Coral Snow (mixed together daily), plus at end did Vinegar Dosing. It also worked, but that tanks rocks I also put into darkness for 2 months.

How are semi-baked rocks and treated that tank is here Is this Safe (Modified Rock Cooking) to Deal with Past Algae/Cyana Problems


CyanoClean is a bit more targeted for Cynao.
I'm also using Coral snow but weekly.
Plus and can't remove encrusted corals or darken this tank for long.
I'll see if it works. (today will be dose 3 and Cyano still there, BUT don't see any spreading, or on cleaned rocks yet.).

 

[Wally.B]

Two New Future Fish are in Quarentine Tank (Goby and DottyBack).

Starting small with fish add, since long term plan is that Angel will get bigger over next while.

These will make a nice color addition to tank. (Both Coral Safe, and somewhat compatible with Larger fish I have:

[ Yellow Tang, Mandarin, Diamond Watch Goby, Small SpotBreastAngel, and Blue/Green Chromis ]

Any objections/warnings? (Yet I'm aware both can jump out of tank) (Yes, they probably will hang out in nooks and caves, but they will eat and make food for corals).

Are they keepers, or take them back for something else?

I also have my eye on a medium-small Beautiful Power Brown Tang the store has. I believe he would get along with the same size Yellow tang over time.
Think of getting him and adding all 3 at the same time to mix things up, for new introduction (lessens the aggression). With the Brown Tang, that would be it for this 65 Gallon Tank.

If the Powder Brown Tang ever outgrows this 65G tank, he could go into my 90G tank which has no fish.

 

[Myka]

The Powder Brown will outgrow your 90 and certainly should never be in a 65 imho, plus they are often quite aggressive. The Dottyback will be fairly aggressive. I prefer Royal Grammas - look similar but more peaceful. Firefish are one of my must-haves.

As far as the frag tank goes, I think it would be a shame to not tie it into your system.

 

[Wally.B]

Lighting PAR TESTING RESULTS:

So I spent a week testing with the Apogee MK-0200 Par Meter. Was worth every penny for the $60 rental.

Basically I learned a lot about my Lighting setup:

- I was running too low PARS. Especially when I reduced my MH ballast to 175W
- I had my fixture too high to get proper PAR's for SPS.
- I learn my modified fixture (4ft reduced to 3ft) doesn't have any Hot Spots, or Dead Spots (ie. Good even coverage)
- I learned I can run both MH lights, and T5 and still in the safe zone of 200PARS - 400 PARS for my tank.

At the end of my tests, I concluded, that best height for MH fixture is 13"

At 13" these are the PAR figures (with All 2x 250W MH & both T5's "ON")

I'm currently running at 16" and the lowest I ever went was 15". (I tested as low as 8" and Even Better Pars in the Tank, but probably will heat tank too much).

What this means (from past experience) is that if I lower lights (slowly) over time, my Algae problems will come back.

Into the Future (higher PARS)

I obviously need increase my PARS (to get ideal growth & color), so the plan to mitigate future algae is the following:

- No more feeding corals (Coral foods)
- Amino additives will be used lightly, distributed and never combined. (PolypBooster, Coral Vitalizer, AcroPower, & Phols Extra).
- I will watch PO4 closely, and possibly put back GFO
- 3 new fish in Quarantine Tank will be future additional Coral Food (not the fish, their waste ).
- Tune Skimmer to skim semi-wet
- Weekly Water changes
- Will treat tank with Cyano Clean, when needed as Cyano Prevention. (appears to be working. Treatment period not yet over.)

ALSO

- I've added 10 more Astraea Snails for CUC

And I got this Cowrie Snail..
Which I got for my other tank, and he's doing wonders. Actually cleaned up Turf Algae, which my steel brush couldn't clean as good.

And I've started on a Refugium:

- Simple 2.5 Gallon that fits in sump
- Some Chaeto Algae
- A bit of live rock.
- 1 Mangrove plant (Mostly for decoration).
- Next will be adding a semi-deep sand bottom with critters.

Hope ALL of the ABOVE improvements will help in the Long Run (Algae Control), as PARS increase with lowering lights.

Then if I survive that far..... I'll work on a increasing Photo Period (overlapping the Left/Right MH lighting periods more).

Any Advice, Thoughts, Comments?

 

[swk]

Honestly, I wouldn't waste your time with such a small fuge. Will have zero effect on your tank and may even create more problems than it's worth with the sand bed.

I had almost half of my 20 gal sump dedicated to a fuge and it was a total waste of space and time. I removed it to add a calcium reactor and my nitrates went down and po4 didn't budge a bit. Just my experience

 

[reefmutt]

If you can put a strong light over that cheato and really get it to grow, it'd probably help but I wouldn't add sand.. There is not enough surface area to really help, imo.
But putting a strong enough light down there will add to heat issues and start growing algae all over the place...even the places you don't want it, like in your skimmer..
I'm inclined to agree with swk...

 

[Wally.B]

ok. I agree with both of you. 2.5 Gal Fuge is a waste of time and space!!.

For now, I'll leave it to see how long cheato lasts. I'll add my Copepods into it (weekly) from my 10Gal Farm, as a sanctuary area.

Eventually I'll jank it. Took 5 minutes to setup. 1 minute to remove.

So time to start thinking of a Algae scrubber, which is way more efficient and targets Algae more directly.

Long term, is I'll add my old 55 Gal sump to the system for a extra water volume (might decrease nutrients and improve tank cycle), and use it for a Frag tank. (BIG JOB for this).

Short term, is I'll just prune the Green hair algae to keep under control,
and hope the CUC crew catch up. (New Cowrie is still exploring, and will find the algae. Man when he passes by and area, it's algae free).
I was actually worried he might not have enough algae to survive. So need to give him a chance.

 

[tmz]

I agree;the chaeto if well lit will help some with pH and add some oxygen as well and take up some PO4 and nitrogen,even though it's a relatively small amount. I'd skip the sand; it get's messy with algae over it.

 

[Wally.B]

I agree;the chaeto if well lit will help some with pH and add some oxygen as well and take up some PO4 and nitrogen,even though it's a relatively small amount. I'd skip the sand; it get's messy with algae over it.

Agree. Will do no sand.

Here is how the Refugium's (Chaeto) will get light.

Get's direct light from Tank's (2x250W MH, and one of the T5's)

Might be enough. We'll see over time.

 

[Chibils]

I agree with Myka that the powder brown is an awful idea. Tangs are generally agressive to each other in a small space and the 65 is a VERY small space for them. Also PBTs can be aggressive I general, I wouldn't put them in less than a 6' tank (smallest non-custom size being a 180).

 

[Wally.B]

I agree with Myka that the powder brown is an awful idea. Tangs are generally agressive to each other in a small space and the 65 is a VERY small space for them. Also PBTs can be aggressive I general, I wouldn't put them in less than a 6' tank (smallest non-custom size being a 180).

I have these 3 fish in quarantine. Nice small add.

The Blue Eye Royal Dottyback is a bit risky, but should be ok.

 

[Wally.B]

Cyano all Gone !! on Day 11 of ZeoVit CyanoClean Treatment/Coral Snow. (Time to start increasing lighting).

So that last spot of Cyano disappeared from the Pump. No new Cyano on rocks anywhere. (Not a spec, even after a full day of MH lights).

I'll keep treating with CyanoClean for another week to be safe.

I'm now feeling confident I can start lowering lights (SLOWLY) towards 12" target for Proper PARS.

There are still growing whiff's of Green Hair Algae where I didn't scrub. Regret I didn't pull ALL the rocks to scrub them last time. However pruning for now to keep under control, till CUC get to the stuff.

 

[Myka]

Is that a red Firefish and a purple Firefish? If so, they won't get along either. The purple will kick the crap out of the red. Reds can be easily kept in pairs (of the same). Purples are a bit more tricky to pair ime.