Homemade Fish Food--Keeping It Simple w/ a Few Key Ingredients

[wshive]

Every fish food recipe that gets posted includes a laundry list of ingredients. Ever seen one with fewer than five? Or ten? I can understand if each of the ingredients is extremely rich in a certain nutrient that all the others don't have, but I don't believe this is the case in most recipes. Moreover, if you add an ingredient that is not packed with beneficial nutrients, you're in effect diluting anything that is.

To elaborate, the vast majority of recipes call for a "mixed bag" of seafood that tends to include shrimp, squid, fish, clams, etc. But why? Because the mixture offers a more balanced diet? But does it?

I've been looking at nutritional information for various seafoods and vegetables. Using data taken from the USDA website, I've looked at the following foods:

Proteins
Clam
Crab
Crayfish
Lobster
Mussel
Octopus
Oyster
Scallop
Shrimp
Squid

Vegetables
Brussell Sprouts
Chick Peas
Lettuce (Green Leaf)
Lettuce (Iceberg)
Lettuce (Red Leaf)
Lima Beans
Seaweed (Kelp)
Spinach

After looking at the nutritional data for all these items, my conclusion for the best proteins is:

-Oysters
-Scallops

That's it. To explain, I found scallops to have the most protein given the same serving size. Squid and shrimp were close seconds, but they had tremendous amounts of cholesterol. Scallop is already high in cholesterol, but the squid and shrimp had 6.5 and 4.5 times as much, respectively. That said, scallop is far more expensive than squid or shrimp, so substitutions are still an option on that basis. Oysters, while only about one-third the protein content (same serving size, by weight) as scallop, is very high in Zinc, B3, and B12. And high in Iron as well. None of the other proteins had anything significant to offer that wasn't covered by the scallop and oyster. (Except of course cholestoral )

I found the best greens to be:

-Seaweed (Kelp)
-Spinach

I didn't find data on nori (which I think is at least partly composed of kelp, right?), but I'm guessing it's comparable to kelp. The seaweed had higher values in nearly every category compared to the spinach, but it was low in Vitamins A, C and B6, which the spinach was very high in. Also, the spinach is still high in a lot of the other categories, so it wouldn't end up being a "diluting" ingredient.

CAVEATS (there are lots :eek1: )

1. I did this research with FISH in mind, not corals.
2. I'm not a fish biologist or a nutritionist.
3. I considered the following for the foods listed above: Protein, Carbohydrates, Fiber, Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, Potassium, Zinc, Vit A, B1, B2, B3, B6, B12, C, Folate, Lycopene (Antioxidant), and Lutein (Antioxidant).
4. I'm not confident the serving size data I got from the USDA website is completely accurate for each item (They were not normalized, so sizes differed. I had to recalculate them myself). I do believe it's close, however as I've cross-checked the data with other nutrition information "labels" found on nutrition websites.
5. I have not been feeding my fish this for years and years. But I am confident in my findings and plan on doing so.
6. I strongly believe in adding supplements like selcon, zoecon, etc. I also intend to feed my fish formula 1 & 2 and angel formula on occassion, once a week maybe.
7. I ruled out fruits because most of them tend to have lots of sugars, but not nearly the amount vitamins and minerals as the vegetables I chose to take a closer look at.

CONCLUSION

Here are the nutritional benefits for each item with qualifiers. I'm reluctant to give acutal numbers b/c of my uncertainty about the exactness of the data:
SCALLOP - Very high in protein. Very high in B3.
OYSTER - Alternate protein source, though not very high. Very high in Zinc and B3. High in Iron.
SEAWEED - Very high in Carbs, Fiber, Calcium, Iron, Magnesium, B1, B2, Folate, Lycopene. High in Potassium, Zinc, and Lutein. Also contains some Protein and Vit C.
SPINACH - Very high in Potassium, Vit A, C, B6, Lycopene, and Lutein. High in Carbs, Fiber, Calcium, Magnesium, B1, B2, and Folate.

My recipe is:
2 Parts Scallop
1 Part Oyster
2 Parts Seaweed (nori)
1 Part Spinach (lightly blanched, to reduce volume)
Add vitamin supplement (selcon) as well as Omega-3 fish oils (zoecon)
Gelatin (to prevent clouding of water)

Although I love sharing, I'm not just posting to broadcast my conclusions. I'd really like to hear suggestions for other food items I may not have considered. Additionally are there any key nutrients I've overlooked? It might affect the final tally of things.

The USDA database is available here: http://www.ars.usda.gov/Services/docs.htm?docid=8964 Or you can do searches on individual items here: http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

 

[waynem]

Interesting idea , I will look forward to seeing how your fish like the new mix.

Would a lot oysters in the mix run the increased risk of heavy metal contamination ?

 

[wshive]

Hmm, not sure about that. Exactly what metals are you thinking? FWIW they do have a fair amount of copper in them, but only about 1/4 of what's in squid and about 50% more than kelp.

 

[wshive]

It doesn't seem like anyone really cares about this stuff... Regardless, after more number crunching and further scrutinizing of the data, I've revised my recipe.

There are now five ingredients:

Scallop
Fish Roe
Oyster
Spinach
Seaweed

I forgot to even consider fish roe when considering proteins. As it turns out, it has a huge amount of protein. About 30% more than even scallop. Omega-3s are off the charts too at 4x that of oyster (which has the highest of the original four ingredients). Drawback is it has 11x the cholesteral of scallop (that's more than double shrimp and squid) and 3x the fat.

Also, after thinking about it further, spinach seems to be a better choice of greens over seaweed (kelp, in this case) mainly b/c it has MASSIVE quantities of Vitamins A & C as well as Lutein when compared to kelp. All other nutrients that kelp has more of isn't by more than 20% or so. Also, I believe none of them are more important than Vitamin C. Which as most people know, is an essential antioxidant. My belief is that it will payoff in the long-term health of the fish.

Again, these numbers are subject to some scrutiny, but I did find normalized numbers from the USDA website, which I used. Also, it turns out there are NO alternative or 3rd party sources of nutritional information (that I could find) online.

Wes' New Recipe
Measure out the proteins separate from the greens. Since people have different mixes of fish in their tanks (herbivores/carnivores) they may want to adjust protein/green ratio accordingly. I'd recommend 50/50 as a base. If you've got a mainly herbivore tank, go 40/60 protein/greens and vice versa.

-3 Parts Scallop
-2 Parts Fish Roe
-1 Part Oyster

then, separately...

-3 Parts Spinach (blanched then drained completely to reduce volume)
-1 Part Seawead (Nori) (chopped fine, do not presoak--there will be plenty of fluid for it to soak up)

Mix it all together in the proportion appropriate for your fish mix then...

-Vitamin supplement (no need for additional fats like zoecon b/c the fish roe more than takes care of the omega-3s)
-Gelatin (to prevent clouding)


I'm still looking for suggestions/critcisms/tweaks... Anyone?

 

[waynem]

Post some pics, the new mix and the fish eating it. Everyone loves pics

My only worry (probably unfounded) is both the oysters and scallops are filter feeds so if the water quality is poor/polluted they tend to be worse off, if thats all your feeds and you dont know the origin of them it could be a problem.

It might be interesting to send your water off for a lab test prior to then say after a few weeks with the new mix and see if anything
changes.

 

[honda2sk]

its not just the amount of given protein USDA finds in a certain food. there is a huge difference in how the fish is able to digest/utilize the food. there are difference kinds of proteins and fats, etc. in this thought, many foods like spinach contain lots of vitamins but might not be appropriate for marine fish because they cannot utilize all kinds of vitamins & minerals and you might give them an excess of a certain kind and create problems for them. food of marine origin are superior for fish in my opinion because their bodies have evolved according to this food to best utilize the vitamins/fats/minerals,proteins, etc they possess.

 

[Konadog]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10920686#post10920686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wshive
It doesn't seem like anyone really cares about this stuff...

I'm still looking for suggestions/critcisms/tweaks... Anyone?

I think they do, but this forum is not as well traveled as some of the others.

I have been using the same few ingredients for some time without any problems. I get the sea food medley from Trader Joe's (shrimp, scallops, squid), run it thru the food processor with some Nori, add a scoop or two of golden pearls, and a cube or two of cyclop-ez for color. The trick is to process the sea food in different batches to insure different size food. I have some large tangs that prefer large chunks, and some small clown fish that like smaller pieces.

 

[wshive]

honda2sk, you make a good point about vitamins & minerals possibly being out of proportion. In this case, Vitamin A is the only thing which can be overdosed, which spinach has huge amounts of over kelp. Vitamin C is water-soluble and is therefore extremely difficult to overdose. Unfortunately, there's no way to figure out what the upper limit of Vitamin A intake is for fish. I think one potential compromise is to remove spinach completely and add a liquid Vit C supplement like Marine-C or Vitamarin-C. You would lose Vit A and Lutein as a result, but it would be safer in a sense. Alternately you could maybe revert to my original proportions of 2 parts seaweed to 1 part spinach or even a 3 to 1 ratio. I suppose it's still possible that this is too much Vit A, but it's only about 10-15% spinach at that point. Personally, I'm not sure which route to take on this.

Konadog, thanks for sharing your recipe. Do you add a vit supplement or just rely on the golden pearls?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10932576#post10932576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Konadog
The trick is to process the sea food in different batches to insure different size food. I have some large tangs that prefer large chunks, and some small clown fish that like smaller pieces.

That's another reason why I like using gelatin. Even if you ground everything to a paste, it will stay together and you can essentially dice or mash up huge chunks of it to any size you want. Saves you the trouble of doing lots of batches. And keeps fish from only picking out certain things (which is a good thing IMO, though some may disagree).

waynem, Will try to get some pics up, but I've yet to make up a batch cause I'm waiting to hear everyone's advice on this! I hear you on the shellfish front. I've never sent my water to a lab. Is it costly? Can you recommend any places? What exactly do they test for that OTC test kits can't?

 

[Konadog]

I don't add any vitamins. When processing the food, it's not really done in batches, I just don't grind it all up in one shot. I divide the large pieces into thirds. Add the first with the nori and process, and the second portions with cyclop-eze and process, and the last portion with golden pearls and process. The first batch is now smaller than the second, that is smaller than the third. As far as it holding together, golden pearls or something is the mix seems to act as a binder so some stays together. It works for me and my fish, just find what works best for you and stick with it. If I can ever find fish roe, I'll start adding that to the mix too.

 

[kysard1]

Did you find any of these to be lower in phosphate ?

 

[wshive]

You can find fish roe in asian supermarkets, particularly japanese markets. There are lots in Gardena I know. Or you can try http://www.99ranch.com/.

kysard1, I don't have any data on phosphates. It's not part of any nutrition data I don't believe. Also, lower as compared to what?

 

[james37128]

humm

humm

I was wondering exactly how you add the gelatin. I can understand mixing everything in the blender/food processor but do you just add straight gelatin and how much?

 

[wshive]

I basically add hot water that has gelatin dissolved in there. Since I don't presoak the nori, the mixture is somewhat dry, like stuffing or a meatloaf mixture. I always aim for a slightly runny consistency like pudding or even a thick batter. If you're generous with the gelatin (i.e. use twice as much as you might use to make jello), it gets to be like ocean nutrition cubes when it sets.

(A word of caution, don't add all the hot gelatin water in at once, stir it in slowly to temper or it'll cook some of your seafood mixture.)

 

[wshive]

Just realized I might have been unclear... I aim to go from the "stuffing" consistency to the "runny" consistency by adding the gelatin water.

 

[Conesus_Kid]

Do you have any information on the HUFA's (Highly unsaturated fatty acids) found in your ingredients?

 

[wshive]

There's a pretty extensive breakdown of fat and fatty acids available on the USDA website (the links in my first post). Or you can check out http://www.nutritiondata.com/. It's easier to read but sometimes isn't as complete.

 

[Conesus_Kid]

Thanks-

I didn't initially see the "nutrient list" link last evening.

 

[timrandlerv10]

are you concerned that the foods the scallops and oysters eat will be concentrated when it arrives in your tank?

squid food isnt oyster food isnt shrimp food?

i have nothing useful to add, just asking!

(i currently use the korean store bag blended with formula one flake. i alternate that with dried cyclopeez and ora glow. nem gets that, whatever falls and silversides. my N and P are problematic...gee, wonder why...)

thanks!

 

[wshive]

I was thinking about it the other day, and I realized we worry much more about our fish's nutrition than we do our own. I've done way more research in how to provide a balanced diet for my fish than I have for myself! I did think about possible pollutants from the oysters but then realized I wouldn't think twice about eating them myself!

To answer your question, especially since the oysters make up a small percentage of the overall mix, I'm not really concerned. They're mostly there to provide zinc and some B vitamins as well as another form of protein. As for the scallop, remember that we don't eat the entire scallop. We only eat the abductor muscle, so it's pure meat, no guts.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11004446#post11004446 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by timrandlerv10
squid food isnt oyster food isnt shrimp food?

I'm not sure I understand your question. But remember: the point of the "meaty" part of the recipe is to provide a concentrated source of protein while the greens provide fiber, vitamins, and minerals. If you'd rather use squid or shrimp, that's fine--just know they're higher in cholestoral.

My goal in all this was to provide my fish with food that is as concentrated with nutrients as possible while being able to make it myself to save money. I believe going with a few choice ingredients is FAR better than thirty different things, some of which may be of questionable value but still fill up our fish's stomachs. I'm not saying the particular mix I've come up with is the best. But I encourage you to check out the data for yourself. It certainly gets complicated when you start dealing with proportions.

After looking at all the nutrition data, I'm pretty convinced this method is much more densely packed with balanced nutrition than any food you can buy. While there are many great fish food companies, they are not held accountable to consumers or regulated as strictly as human food sources are. If human food companies can pack all sorts of junk into snack foods, what's to stop a fish food company from doing the same thing, if for no other reason to keep costs down? Looking at the ingredients of my frozen Formula One, I see: sardine meal? paprika? Are these the BEST things for our fish? The only real way to tell would be to do side by side comparisons with the same fish species for several years. But, to my knowledge, no one's ever done that. It's not the same as buying dog or cat food where they've done long-term research.

To be fair, the same can be said about my approach to fish food, but at least I can say I've looked at the data on my ingredients. For example, I know scallop (and squid and shrimp) is packed with way more protein than sardine meal. They have way more protein than any other fish I looked at. And something tells me saying sardine meal is just fish is like saying hot dogs is just beef.

[Incidently, the top ingredient in frozen Formula One is shrimp. Spinach is also high up there. Yes, spinach, the land-based superfood. After researching it, I plan on eating a LOT more of it, seriously!] :lol:

A useful tip: a couple tablets of vitamin C in the blender will pulverize it and you can add it as a supplement to your fish food. I recommend doing this for water soluble vitamins ONLY. That way if you overdose, it's not a big deal.

 

[Serioussnaps]

What about spirulina?