Host nems that split naturally

[davocean]

I was having a convo on my local site about nems that split naturally, and I know E. quadricolor/BTA's are one of them, but can't recall what the other host nem is that does this naturally.
I'm pretty sure there are only two host nems that do this, anyone recall the other species?

 

[davocean]

Never mind, thanks to BonsaiNut reposting the nem FAQ list I found the answer.

Splitting occurs when an anemone splits itself in half, creating two identical individuals,
while budding occurs when a small piece of the parent anemone breaks off and becomes
a separate individual. At least two species of clown anemone (E. quadricolor and H.
magnifica) have been known to split in captivity. S. gigantea has been seen to split once
– so it does occur. Budding is less common and has only been observed once or twice in
S. gigantea and S. mertensii. Pedal laceration has never been observed with clown
anemones (this form of reproduction is common in some other anemones such as
Aptasia) though it may occur with large E. quadricolors.
Anemones are sexual creatures, in that there are male and female individuals. They
reproduce sexually by releasing eggs and sperm into the water column, where larval
anemones mature and settle out to become juvenile anemones.

 

[elegance coral]

Do you have a link to where you got that quote? There are several statements in it that I don't agree with, or haven't seen evidence to support.

 

[kduen]

I'm pretty sure it was here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2103463 post #8. I'm at work so I can't get it to open from here.

 

[elegance coral]

I found it, thanks.

BonsaiNut, if you're around and have the time, can you post links that support these statements?

"S. gigantea has been seen to split once – so it does occur."

"Budding is less common and has only been observed once or twice in
S. gigantea and S. mertensii. "

 

[davocean]

It was this nem FAQ list, Bonsai did say he wished to update some stuff, not sure what.

http://www.wifeofnerd.com/images/AnemoneFAQ.pdf

 

[elegance coral]

Thanks Dave. Hopefully he'll find time to update it, and make corrections. A Lot has changed in the past 7 years.

 

[BonsaiNut]

LOL let me dig it up. I know that at the time I was trying to be "inclusive" of the current available information. I am pretty sure I was referring to Sprung material but let me dig up the source.

 

[elegance coral]

LOL let me dig it up. I know that at the time I was trying to be "inclusive" of the current available information. I am pretty sure I was referring to Sprung material but let me dig up the source.

You don't have to dig it up. I understand what you were trying to do. A Lot of the aquarium stuff agreed with what you wrote. It was a long time ago, and from reading some of your more recent posts, I don't believe you still think that way. Hopefully, that line of thinking has changed for a great deal of people.

 

[BonsaiNut]

You don't have to dig it up. I understand what you were trying to do. A Lot of the aquarium stuff agreed with what you wrote. It was a long time ago, and from reading some of your more recent posts, I don't believe you still think that way. Hopefully, that line of thinking has changed for a great deal of people.

The budding comment was specifically referring to Sprung's "The Coral Reef Aquarium", Volume II, page 120. I still need to scrounge up the splitting reference.

I cannot prove that S. mertensii, S. gigantea, or S. haddoni do not reproduce asexually. I can only say that if it happens at all it happens very rarely (at least in captivity). Given the numerous examples of E. quadricolor and H. magnifica reproducing asexually in captivity, the fact that there is not a single (aside from the reference above) photographic example of ANY OTHER clown anemone species reproducing asexually in captivity is very telling.

 

[elegance coral]

The budding comment was specifically referring to Sprung's "The Coral Reef Aquarium", Volume II, page 120. I still need to scrounge up the splitting reference.

I have volume one. I guess I'll have to buy volume two as well.

I cannot prove that S. mertensii, S. gigantea, or S. haddoni do not reproduce asexually.

None of us can. We can't prove a negative. We can't prove that we aren't being visited by little green men, that big foot is not terrorizing campers in the north west, or that there is no monster living in Loch Ness. Most of us don't believe these things because there's no tangible evidence to support these claims. For me personally, until there is tangible proof that these 8 species of host anemone reproduce asexually, I'll think of this as a myth. Just like Bigfoot, and little green men.

 

[syrinx]

We know that while anything can happen- it has not been documented- or poorly, so it is safe to say it does not occur as normal- or even stress behavior. I would hazard that any of these animals in a perfect storm injury and healing could perhaps bud-but not as part of normal behavior. One thing I remember from meeting sprung a few times early in his writing- before the reef handbook and such came out-things did not need to be strongly documented for them to be taken as fact. That is not a slam because at that time there was so little information of a body of knowledge- we all were trying to figure out things based on what we experienced and others told us. There were a lot of urban legends perpetuated-and that goes for many of the early writers of reef stuff. Then again axelrod and burgess overstepped in their IDs and specs on fishes in their books before. The internet now allows a greater polling of people and their experiences, so one person saying "I heard of that happening" doesnt carry much weight. Thats why I have never mentioned my LTA budded.

 

[BonsaiNut]

I have volume one. I guess I'll have to buy volume two as well.

On page 120 there is a photo of S. gigantea budding and he refers to two instances that he was personally aware of. For the purposes of the FAQ I took it at face value.

 

[elegance coral]

On page 120 there is a photo of S. gigantea budding and he refers to two instances that he was personally aware of. For the purposes of the FAQ I took it at face value.

I've seen quite a few photos of what was called reproductive budding. I have a couple of photos myself of anemones with twin pedal disks. One of these is M. doreensis. None of these photos show this to be a reproductive strategy though. The only thing these photos show is a deformity. We see cows with an extra set of legs growing out their side. We don't assume this extra set of legs is going to grow into an entirely new cow and run off through the field. To suggest such a thing would just be laughable.

I think a great deal of the confusion stems from us viewing anemones as all being basically all the same. Little more than bags of water with tentacles. What holds true of one, must surely hold true of the others as well. With a little studying, it quickly becomes obvious how incredibly wrong this line of thinking is. This is an incredibly diverse group of animals. Each species has evolved its own strategies for survival. Reproduction is one of the areas where these animals vary greatly. A reproductive strategy employed by one species, tells us nothing about the reproduction of another. If we are going to study anemone reproduction, or make claims regarding their reproduction, we must look at each species individually. We can't make assumptions based on how other species reproduces.

I know you're aware of everything I just wrote. I just wanted to state it for the new guy to anemones, or the hobbyist that reads aquarium literature and views it as fact.