Yurivd
New member
So is that where the photo was taken
Hotumatua, Debelius, Resplendent
- Thread starter Jordani
- Start date
So is that where the photo was taken
i understand...if those places too like ball's rock,no wonder divers have to be very very careful...
copps
Premium Member
I cannot imagine a species found at Reunion not being also found at Mauritius, but as you say Daniel has dived deep there for years with no reports... Daniel is an amazing man who has contributed to both ichthyology and our hobby for decades... he is the true person who discovered Centropyge debelius, and were it not for him we may still not know this species... I found the specimen he collected a decade before the holotype of the species was caught... perhaps it should be Centropyge pelicieri...
Daniel has done limited dives beyond 100 meters though... perhaps A. guezei is similar to Centropyge abei, C. narcosis, or C boylei and the specimens at 200 feet are just the vast minority at relatively shallow depths... to think there are unknown reef fish like this in the year 2010 makes this hobby that much more exciting...
Yuri, while the photo was taken by a Mauritian, it was shot at nearby Reunion Island... also where the holotype was netted and the only location guezei is documented...
Yes... the currents rip at Ball's Pyramid... making diving only possible two months out of the year... and even then only some days... some divers stay two weeks at Lord Howe during that period with no opportunity to head to Ball's...
Auem, may I ask what country you are from? One of the great joys for me is the international participation here on RC from six continents... thanks in advance!
Copps
Cantonesefish
with active cooling
Wow that gives "tang police" a whole new meaning!
Aqua-Mauritius
New member
Hello auem,
Here also, there's no laws which says reefing is legal.
Collecting Corals is entirely banned and catching fishes without a permit is illegal beside this, I know only one person in Mauritius who has the legal right to sell fishes locally.
Anyway coming to Pelicier's pygmy angel, I read on Helmut angel book that Debelius angel were sited in Aldabra island(Seychelles) at something like 20-24m. Anyone would share any thought on this. Has there been confirmation on this by other people?
copps
Premium Member
The existance of Centropyge debelius in the Seychelles is based entirely on one video taken in 1997... one specimen was videotaped of what is for sure Centropyge debelius at ~60 feet! This was at Aldabra Atoll, which is the second largest coral atoll in the world by land mass behind Kiritimati (Christmas Island) in the Pacific... the export station of black tangs and a loads of flame angels! The interesting thing is that Aldabra is on the other side of Madagascar from the other two small islands Centropyge debelius is documented from... Mauritius and Reunion... debelius must be at Madagascar too! No collection will be had at Aldabra though... it is super isolated, uninhabited and a World Heritage site like Lord Howe to boot!
Merry Christmas all!
Copps
Merry Christmas everybody...
Copp,i have asked it in a angel thread somewhere before,though didn't get a response...so i am asking you...
can you show me some pictures clearly differentiating orange tail emperor and common variation..?...i know we are shifting from centropyge,but still it's a angel anyway...thanks...
Copp,i have asked it in a angel thread somewhere before,though didn't get a response...so i am asking you...
can you show me some pictures clearly differentiating orange tail emperor and common variation..?...i know we are shifting from centropyge,but still it's a angel anyway...thanks...
copps
Premium Member
Apologies for the tardy reply... auem, emperor angels are not one or the other... orange tail or yellow tail... the natural variation of the species could be from pale yellow to a deep orange throughout its range from South Africa all the way to the central Pacific (specimens have even waifed as far as Hawaii, but the species has never established itself there)... orange tail specimens are found with more frequency in certain locales... in particular those exported from Christmas Island in the central Pacific are most well known for their deep orange tails, yet not all specimens from there have the color...
I've had a pair of Christmas Island specimens for years now... this is a shot from a while back, showing the smaller specimen in its juvenile color...
And a shot of the larger specimen next to my clarion angel... what better way to show an orange tail!
A more recent shot showing both as adults...
For comparison there are many images of yellow tailed specimens such as this (not my image)...
One very interesting thing I've noticed that I've never seen documented is in the central Pacific emperors... it is well known that ALL Indian Ocean specimens of Pomacanthus imperator lack the dorsal streamer, as seen in the above photo of the yellow tailed specimen... so, when you see any emperor with a streamer on its dorsal fin you could be sure its from the Pacific... millions of years ago there was free gene flow of many reef fish species from the Indian to the Pacific Ocean, but this was cut off recently, resulting in many sister species in both oceans that have since diverged in both oceans. Some are not sister species but just variants, like emperor angels, and regals angels for instance... but here is that interesting part I've observed... something is going on with the central Pacific emperor angels, as they appear to be identical to Indian Ocean specimens, not their West Pacific cousins with the dorsal filaments... Christmas Island specimens like the two I have, lack the dorsal filaments even as large adults, just like their Indian Ocean cousins! Also, the orange tail is amazingly more common in the central Pacific and Indian Ocean fish than it is in the Western Pacific emps with dorsal streamers... some day I'd like to look at the genetics (with help) of these populations...
On a side note, next week I'll be showing MANY new photos of my tanks...
Copps
I've had a pair of Christmas Island specimens for years now... this is a shot from a while back, showing the smaller specimen in its juvenile color...
And a shot of the larger specimen next to my clarion angel... what better way to show an orange tail!
A more recent shot showing both as adults...
For comparison there are many images of yellow tailed specimens such as this (not my image)...
One very interesting thing I've noticed that I've never seen documented is in the central Pacific emperors... it is well known that ALL Indian Ocean specimens of Pomacanthus imperator lack the dorsal streamer, as seen in the above photo of the yellow tailed specimen... so, when you see any emperor with a streamer on its dorsal fin you could be sure its from the Pacific... millions of years ago there was free gene flow of many reef fish species from the Indian to the Pacific Ocean, but this was cut off recently, resulting in many sister species in both oceans that have since diverged in both oceans. Some are not sister species but just variants, like emperor angels, and regals angels for instance... but here is that interesting part I've observed... something is going on with the central Pacific emperor angels, as they appear to be identical to Indian Ocean specimens, not their West Pacific cousins with the dorsal filaments... Christmas Island specimens like the two I have, lack the dorsal filaments even as large adults, just like their Indian Ocean cousins! Also, the orange tail is amazingly more common in the central Pacific and Indian Ocean fish than it is in the Western Pacific emps with dorsal streamers... some day I'd like to look at the genetics (with help) of these populations...
On a side note, next week I'll be showing MANY new photos of my tanks...
Copps
ENTMogul
New member
Has a chaetodontoplus niger ever been kept in captivity?
copps
Premium Member
Chaetodontoplus niger picked the wrong place to live if it wanted to remain rare... Many Japanese photographers have found this previously unknown species only documented from the twilight zone in much shallower water now... even at 60 feet! Yuri, post photos of your angel will you!!!???
copps
Premium Member
Not that I'm aware of... although its entirely possible its happened in Japan... its range in Japan where it is found shallow does not allow collection of fish with scuba, so it would be illegal... there are some very secretive hobbyists in Japan, so again it may have happened...
Very possible... shoot me a PM and I can go into detail tomorrow...
copps
Premium Member
Hmmm... behind A. guezei I would probably put Centropyge nigriocella up there... this is a species with a large range found in shallow water... but is by far the most secretive species! You NEVER see them in the trade despite them being documented from exporting locations... Jack Randall, the God of Gods in the fish nerd world, told me he scoured a small piece of reef for something like an hour and saw nothing... and only after juicing the reef with rotenone did he colect a few species for science... I think that was at Johnston Island...
Another one may be the juvenile stage of Chaetodontoplus ballinae... which has NEVER been seen desipte the adults being commonly seen at Ball's Pyramid... amazing!
And those elusive undiscovered species that are surely out there... I travel to Ecuador each year with my family where I lived and met my wife, and I just know there is a deepwater undiscovered angelfish species somewhere in the Eastern Pacific!
On a side note I am jonesing for a couple hotumatua now that I have the system cool enough for them!
Copps
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Centropyge nigriocella
Centropyge nigriocella
Centropyge nigriocella is a real interesting fish. At the last MACNA I spent a lot of time talking to the PNG group, that fish is found on the north side of PNG so maybe they will find it on the south side where they collect. And with any luck maybe they can catch one.
Centropyge nigriocella
Centropyge nigriocella is a real interesting fish. At the last MACNA I spent a lot of time talking to the PNG group, that fish is found on the north side of PNG so maybe they will find it on the south side where they collect. And with any luck maybe they can catch one.
Yurivd
New member
What is PNG
