How do we Fight the Name Game?

[gh0st]

or "Bring It Back the Other Way!" -RATM

In a comment in a different thread, I posted the following, but would like to open it up for further discussion:

"I hate the "Name Game" as well, but it is so incredibly prevelant in the hobby right now...

My question is this, how do we "Bring It Back The Other Way"?

I work at a LFS and constantly battle the names. I try not to use them or encourage their use, and only sell polyps by description, but the truth of the mater is I could probably make 3 times as much by selling "named" and by the polyp.

I miss the days of having a stunning huge colony show up in an order. Anymore, it's all the same drab boring polyps when ordering colonies with out the "My Name Is" tag at insane prices.

All the real nice stuff is being cherry picked away before anyone even has a chance at them and sold at crazy high per polyp prices. "

After realizing that there is a growing reaction against the "Name Gaming Frag Pimps" I walked around the store and erased the few names off of sale tanks.

A regular customer asked what I was doing:
Me: Erasing the names, I'm fed up with the over hyped and priced per polyp named coral BS
Customer: But what kind are they?
Me: Purple and Orange, Orange, Red, Blues, and Greens
Customer: But aren't they worth more with the name?
Me: Probably, but why should they be? Do you like how they look? Do you like the price?
Customer: (looking Confused) Huh... But I saw that one called this, selling for $$$ a polyp on line.
Me: (Shrug) Well, if you want the name, you can pay that price for them somewhere else.
Customer: I'll take those three!

Sorry this is a bit long winded, but after watching polyps I would get and sell 75+ polyp colonies for $65 balloon up to $10-50 a polyp,I really feel that this trend has gone on long enough. We need to kill it and quickly before this hobby is only accessible to those with a six figure income.

Who Benefits from it? Only people I can see are the Frag Pimping Chop&Shop types trying to squeeze as much cash out of people as they can.

 

[Sushi man]

What u think about single eye chalice that sold for 1000 bucks? Wanna hear ur opinion about this..

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Two wrongs have never made a right. Chalice should be next if not first.

 

[cweber]

I have seen alot of these threads lately and I totally agree. I have only been in the hobby a few years, but dont see the point. I dont care what they are called, if I like em I like em and should be able to pay a fair price. I picked up a 50 or 60 head frag of "dragon eyes" at petco along with some misc polypsfloating around the tank for $20. I didnt buy them because they were dragon eyes. I bought them because I liked them.

 

[XSharkboyX]

This problem has become more prevalent across the board. Not only has it ruined zoanthid and palythoa keeping, but it has plagued lps, and now its onto sps... What's next, sponges and gorgonians?

When will it end? It is a valid question. What needs to be done? Is even better yet. People, especially newbies need to be educated about the problem.

Job well done to the op for going against the grain on this one. It's people like you and me that will make a difference. Stop using the names, and stop selling per polyp. Once the prices fall back down to where they belong the price gougers will be rid of their polyps faster than you can say zoanthids...

Unfortunately, we have no control over the cherrypickers that pick up all the beautiful colonies from the wholesalers, only to "pimp them out..." We do however have control over where we put our money. Put your money into a good lfs who doesnt support this foolishness... let them know what you are looking for. If they have a good wholesaler or transhipper, they can get you whatever you want. The chop shops are not the only ones out there who have the the nice corals, you just have to look.

Don't be tricked by these vendors who post pictures on their sites of things that are so far from the truth, it doesn't even look like a coral anymore... There are several here right on reef central who practice this... They mind as well be politicians...

I have said it before, as well as others... The only people who have ANYTHING to gain from these names/high prices are the price gougers who are selling them.

We must put a stop to this nonsense once and for all.

 

[billsreef]

Unfortunately the name game will always be with us. Just look the designer clothing market. People will pay huge sums of money for clothing made cheaply (and low quality at that) with sweat shop labor overseas, just because it has a "name". Try and sell the same person the same type of item that is far better made, but without the "name", and they still want to pay more for the low quality big $$$ "name" item. Personally, I don't get it, but I know when you try to point this out to the people spending stupid money on the "name", they just resort to calling you a "hater"

What to do about, best any of us can do is whatever we can in our corner of the world. Offer up the nicest frags we can grow for cheap, trade, or free.

 

[gh0st]

I feel the same about Chalices, and any other coral for that matter.

All the Super Blue LED Photoshopped pics you see around make my eyes water.

 

[stevie-o]

it's really sad this is happening i have to go to about 5 different lfs to find something i want for a decent price i did however find a store that sell sps colonies for 45 each which is so far the best i've seen

 

[Friday Night]

OK... in order to stop the "name game" then boycott all corals. everyone quit the hobby as of right now.. No one will buy and the market will go under. Or go to the head the the snake witch is the lfs and dealers and say "please stop selling the lady gaga favia"....

Your right this hobby was not like this back in the day when i first started... but its like the dude that invented the "pet rock" he found a opening and ran with it... same thing with corals... "ahhh a green zoa?? not anymore! you shall be named radioactive dragon eye" and now be sold for 50.00PP

People found the coral teet and now are milking it untill the tit runs dry witch it never will. People hate the name game but deep down inside where they dont like to talk about at parties they want that coral for themselves... Its bragging rights. Its not a hobby its who has the best corals and i wanna showboat them...

Like i said its not a hobby anymore. its " THE CORAL STOCK MARKET"

 

[XSharkboyX]

It's no longer about keeping stunning animals, its about collecting mounted designer trophies...

 

[Friday Night]

Yup. And lil Timmy and people dont really know what goes on behind the vendor curtain. Theres whole another world that exists.. They network and keep thier prices about the same or a slight higher so the sheep will pay..... Its a road game they all work together...

I know people myself that NEVER knew what a coral was nor how to keep it but saw there was money to be made. Did thier homework and jumped on that bandwagon. Its sick. but true...

 

[jjmcat]

It's no longer about keeping stunning animals, its about collecting mounted designer trophies...

Most of the really beautiful animals are the ones with names.The name game really does not bother me that much.I have dealt with it since my time in this hobby started.In fact it was the all mighty EE that got me into collecting zoas in the first place.

 

[SIR PATRICK]

What to do about, best any of us can do is whatever we can in our corner of the world. Offer up the nicest frags we can grow for cheap, trade, or free.

I agree. Also, spread the nice stuff, and get it into the hands of like minded reefers, that will do the same. Enough of us, in different areas will make a difference eventually, at least as far as price goes in this whole name game. Share and grow those polyps, and when you do sell- dont let the greed suck you in.

 

[Bronco300]

Honestly...I don't really care that corals have common names....bring them on, but I do care that prices skyrocket to 50-100 per polyp, but I don't believe it'll change anytime soon either, even without the name. If they didn't name utter chaos that...they would still be extremely high priced because of the desire for them. Nothing really you can do about it besides buy them and sell them for a 1/10th of the cost that you purchased them originally at....but how many are honestly willing to do that?:eek2: so until then, guess we just have to suck it up if we want those corals.

 

[organism]

Nothing really you can do about it besides buy them and sell them for a 1/10th of the cost that you purchased them originally at....but how many are honestly willing to do that?

Or on the other hand, the original stores that got them at $40 for full colonies from wholesalers could have sold them at only 10x markup per polyp instead of 1000x markup, but... how many are honestly willing to do that.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Before anyone says this topic has been brought up so many times in the past, save your breath. So has every other topic in this and every other forum.:furious::furious::furious:


How do you beat the name game? You don't, you have to continue to educate those who came into the hobby after 2005 who simply aren't aware of the truth. You can't discuss names without including these silly ridiculous prices. Many of us already know the truth, reefing has been replaced with retailing, I keep saying it over and over again. I will never give these people a single dime of my money for a pencil size polyp worth only a buck or two. How do you fight the name game, you BOYCOTT them all as I and many others do and you keep thread like this circulating. It is my understand that things have already begun to change, Many reefers are getting wise and I hear that polyp sales are dropping. Prices are still high, but sales are slumping.


How do you beat the name game? You continue to tell reefers that before these names were implemented in 2005, you could buy an entire colony of anything, I mean 40, 50 polyps on a 4 x 5 inch rock for $ 50. Think about it people, 40 to 50 polyps for $ 50.00. These gougers are now chopping up these rocks and creating 50 frag plugs with a single polyp on it which may or may not live when you get it home. Usually, they don't live. Now do the math, if they sell 50 polyps for $ 20.00, that's a $ 950 profit off of one rock. Now imagine the gougers who sell them for $ 50 a polyp, that's $ 2,500 with a $ 2,450 profit. Don't think it's possible? It happens everyday.

No sir, I was born at night....but it wasn't lastnight. These threads must continue along with bumping others just like this one.

"Well MUCH-OOOOOOO, how are we suppose to know what we are buying and selling? " Well, until someone started this mess, we purchased by colors and descriptions. I have sold to the four corners of this country for many many years that way. Don't believe me, see the link below. Note the date, the price and the number of polyps.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208268&highlight=mucho

But were they happy with your stuff Mucho?


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208440&highlight=mucho

Yep, they were very happy.


Now reefing is all about gouging, names, hype, rep and bragging rights. Most of these big sellers aren't even reefers. They heard of just how much they could get out of people who didn't know any better and the rush was on. Trust me, many don't know any better. I shared a story a few weeks ago with Kichimark so he can vouch for me that this is true. It's a horrible story BTW. It's about a 19 year old kid in college in California, just one of the many people I have talked to over the years who have had this experience. I won't share it, I'm trying to convince him to come here and share it himself. You're going to be shocked. :furious::furious::furious:


How do you fight the name game? Look at everyone's date in which they signed up. 9 times out of 10, if they joined RC or started reefing after 2005, they don't know how it was and how these prices came to be. Then you share this and every other thread like it with them. One kid was so shocked when I showed him a picture or large zoa colonies. He thought they all were just tiny frags brought up from the ocean floor that everyone traded like Beanie Babies and Baseball cards.

If you must have your names, go ahead, but these prices are absolutely silly.

These sellers want you to just give up an except this practice. They know if you sell your polyps cheaper, someone will just buy them and jack the price back up and make a killing. No, something more needs to be done. Many of you have already given up hope and have excepted the fact that they are all gonna get rich while you pay sky high prices for 2 polyp frags which often perish. Things yes, things will change, yet many of you are going to sit back and except these prices? :furious::furious:


Keep these threads alive, that's how you change this mess.

MUCHO :furious:

 

[Kirklan]

Too me it's simple supply and demand. The price is dictated by what people can pay and the supply. I purchased the frags in my avatar for $5 a piece in 05 or 06. I've been out of reefing since 2008 and am just now seriously looking to get back in it. The prices for EVERYTHING are crazy!!! It amazes me when I see a coral colony picture with a $50 price tag and think, "that's reasonable", until I read the fine print and it's for a 3/4" frag!!! They're taking colonies that they purchased for $20, putting a name on them and turning them into $500 worth of frags that people are dumb enough to buy. As more and more people get into reefing, the supply will eventually dwindle and the demand grow creating a scenario of crazy high prices. I know I'm not telling anyone something they don't already know, but there is a lot more to current prices than just a name.

Local reef clubs and good LFS are the antidote to crazy online prices and naming games. If reefers start cutting off the high priced vendors and go back to trading internally and purchasing from good LFS it would make a difference over time.

 

[organism]

Local reef clubs and good LFS are the antidote to crazy online prices and naming games. If reefers start cutting off the high priced vendors and go back to trading internally and purchasing from good LFS it would make a difference over time.

Very well said, that's the cure for the name game right there

 

[Tenor]

I actually like the coral names, it help us easily to identify them when we do trade, resell them or even talk to friend about them.

 

[650-IS350]

Just as example of what I have been doing for my local club.

Just like my other previous DBTC's , I want to introduce my new DBTC of Purple Hornets. I really wanted to also create a DBTC of the Blue Hornet and Red Hornet but I recently lost both colonies so I want to at least offer BAR folks the Purple one at the least.

I've also had these guys for a long time now and prior to getting out I want to distribute several of these to folks that can and keep these guys alive. I will also place the same requirements that I placed on the previous DBTC's to these PURPLE HORNETS ZOANTHIDS as well.
( If you can't obide by them or don't want to follow my requirements and therefor not join, I totally understand )

the requirements I have for these guys are.
1. To be grown out only to be given to DBTC, this piece will be given out as strictly DBTC pass around / grow out.
2. Whom ever it's given to shall also abide by the same requirement and shall put the same requirements to whom ever it's passed down to for DBTC
2. NOT to be offered for SALE or for TRADE ( I really don't want to see this in Ebay/CL/ coral forums offered for trade or sale.
3. "If" I ever return to the hobby, I get 1st dibs on frags of this piece.

The true intent of this, is to pass it around for free and grow out to be pass again and again with out any personal gain. If you can abide by this and ensure that anyone that you also pass down this coral to also abides by the same rules then you can have one.

I have not made a lot of public DBTC or give away's most of my contributions were more low key and not public, so before I fully get out I want to go out with a bang with giving out nice looking polyps for people to continue to share

I have done this for just example, For the ones into names or needs names for ID. I offered and gave for FREE, purple hornets, Pink/Gold, ring of fire, Marijanes, dragone eyes, oxides, EE, NG's/PDs, tubbs , King Midas and others. Some public some where done in secret. Next on my list to give away to my local club are Capt. Americas, VDM's, Intergalactic, other un named polyps. I've also given away other polyps with NO names but will blow away a lot of these other eye candy polyps with the condition that No pics are taken of them, NO NAME placed on them and I do not see that in Coral Pedia and other naming sites. Nor see it hyped or posted on ANY reef forums.

My point is, IT STARTS WITH THE REGULAR PUBLIC AND REEFERS, NOT the collectors that have the " BE LIKE THE JONES's mentality ". JMO. I'm out of this thread as this fight is tiring and have done it for too long.