How much are you dosing?

[Thor2j]

The weird thing that is throwing me off is that after taking dosing off for 24 hours the calculated alk consumption is 1.3dkh. Also based the last 12 hours, rough calculated consumption is .8dkh. Which puts me on pace to be at 1.6 in 24 hours (pretty close).

With my total water volume at roughly 85g; reef calculators indicate that I should be dosing 78.9ml(1.3 consumption)-97.1ml(1.6 consumption). At one point last week (scroll up), my daily dosing was at 98ml daily; yet my Alk was dropping as if I wasn't dosing at all. I'm completely puzzled


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I'm gonna ask a stupid question because it's happened to me, are you sure the alkalinity is going in? I couldn't figure out a problem like yours for 5 days and it turned out the tube had pulled above the alk level in the reservoir. Nothing was going in but my apex was showing that it dosed.

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[Reeferparty]

Thanks everyone for your response. I will check my dosing head and recalibrate it once I get home tonight.


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[Reeferparty]

How much are you dosing?

I'm pretty much at my wits end here with dosing!! It seems as though I have done everything I possibly can to try and keep my alkalinity stable. I've recalibrated my dosing pumps and took them off line for 2 days and readjusted my doses. But I'm STILL losing 1dkh after full 24hr dosing schedule; testing at the same time every evening. I've changed my dosing schedule from every hour for 24hrs to every other hour alternating between Alk and ca.

Could it be my schedule? Should I change it to just one large dose of each spread throughout say 6 hours? (I.e. Alk 00:00-06:00 then ca at 12:00-18:00) Should I stop dosing equal parts calcium? Could my mg be too high and be causing this issue?The mg in my NSW is usually around 1600 and I just let it drop naturally. I try to keep it at 1400.

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[Martin Kuhn]

Are you sure that you measure correctly? Have you ever calibrated checked your test kits and "your measuring skills"......
Several times the error lies here

To your questions
- Mg at 1600..1400 is a bit high but should not affect your Ca/Alk values.
Which sea salt, mixed to which salinity should have this high levels ?
- your schedule Ca / Alk is good
- you should dose Ca vs Alk in the ratio your tank consumes (not equally)


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[Reeferparty]

Are you sure that you measure correctly? Have you ever calibrated checked your test kits and "your measuring skills"......
Several times the error lies here

To your questions
- Mg at 1600..1400 is a bit high but should not affect your Ca/Alk values.
Which sea salt, mixed to which salinity should have this high levels ?
- your schedule Ca / Alk is good
- you should dose Ca vs Alk in the ratio your tank consumes (not equally)


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I test Alk using Hanna with calibrated syringe read at eye level, making sure test tube is cleaned of finger prints before putting in reader. Also reading is accurate when cross checked with Red Sea test kit. I test calcium with Red Sea kit only. Also when I test after I manually dose up, it's pretty accurate so I don't think it's my testing procedure or kits.

I'm using fritz salt mixes to 1.025-1.026 @ 76-78 degrees F. I do 10-20% weekly water changes every Sunday.

Right now I'm dosing equal parts based on my tanks Alk consumption. If I were to dose ca per my tanks consumption and if my calculation is that my tank consumes 1.3-1.6dkh per a day with 85g total water volume. According to my research ca consumption in respects with Alk consumption is 18-20ppm per every 2.8dkh. Then according to Randy's 1-part calculator, I should be dosing 78.9ml of Alk and 87ml of ca, does that should about right?


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[Potatohead]

I'm not familiar how strong Randy's solutions are, but according to BRS's calculator, you are correct on the alk portion but the calcium they are calling for more like 180ml. It's possible Randy's solution is much stronger, I'm not sure. That's also assuming you are using sodium carbonate (soda ash) and not bicarbonate (baking soda) - The latter typically needs about double the former to raise alkalinity the same amount.

If you can dose by hand and everything falls in line then it has to be a problem with the dosing pumps or your solutions. If dosing by hand still doesn't work right I would really go back to basics and retest magnesium with another kit, triple check the pumps and calibration - Including checking calibration about 12 hours after initially doing it. You could be getting air in the lines or other things like that which is throwing it all out of line but takes a few hours/days to take effect.

I also agree with dosing what the tank needs and not necessarily in equal parts. People worry about ionic balance but if you are doing regular water changes this is a non-issue.

 

[bertoni]

If you are able to find a working dose when adding the supplements by hand, the problem is the dosing pumps. I might give up on them at this point, personally, but you could check the model and brand to see whether many problems have been reported.

 

[Reeferparty]

I'm not familiar how strong Randy's solutions are, but according to BRS's calculator, you are correct on the alk portion but the calcium they are calling for more like 180ml. It's possible Randy's solution is much stronger, I'm not sure. That's also assuming you are using sodium carbonate (soda ash) and not bicarbonate (baking soda) - The latter typically needs about double the former to raise alkalinity the same amount.

If you can dose by hand and everything falls in line then it has to be a problem with the dosing pumps or your solutions. If dosing by hand still doesn't work right I would really go back to basics and retest magnesium with another kit, triple check the pumps and calibration - Including checking calibration about 12 hours after initially doing it. You could be getting air in the lines or other things like that which is throwing it all out of line but takes a few hours/days to take effect.

I also agree with dosing what the tank needs and not necessarily in equal parts. People worry about ionic balance but if you are doing regular water changes this is a non-issue.

Is 180ml of ca dose daily considered a lot?


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[Reeferparty]

If you are able to find a working dose when adding the supplements by hand, the problem is the dosing pumps. I might give up on them at this point, personally, but you could check the model and brand to see whether many problems have been reported.

My problem maybe that I've only been dosing in equal amounts based on Alk consumption. Maybe I'll try dosing ca per what the tank needs before completely giving up on the pumps. I'll spend the next couple days closely monitoring ca to try and get that stabilized and hopefully my Alk with follow


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[Martin Kuhn]

You get a what some call "balanced-dosage" (or balanced consumption) of Ca vs Alk if you either
a) take Alk-consumption, divide it by 0,14 = Ca Consumption
(exampleAlk 1,0 dKH / 0,14 => 7,14 Ca consumption)
b) take Ca-consumption, multiply by 0,14 = Alk Consumption in dKH
(example Ca 10 mg/l x 0,14 => 1,4 dKH Alk consumption)

Attention: Only some of the recipees are in a way that if you dose equal amounts of the liquid solutions, you get this ratio. Others not !!
This is as the different recipes mixe up to
a) different amounts of the chemical per 1L stock solution
b) sometimes different salt are mixed in (different molecular weights !), sometimes even combination of salt


Randy #1: Ca-part 132g CaCl2 x 2H2o per Liter / Alk part 98g/L Na2CO3
Randy #1: Ca-part 66g CaCl2 x 2H2o per Liter / Alk part 79g/L NaHCO3 !!
Fritz i can only assume based on what they publish
#1(Sodium BiCarbonate): Ca-part 800g CaCl2 x 2H2o per Liter / Alk part 80g/L NaHCO3
#1(Sodium Carbonate): Ca-part 800g CaCl2 x 2H2o per Liter / Alk part 80g/L Na2HCO3

So you see how different and thus different efficient this solutions are.
Also if they are "balanced" or not


calculation for Randy#1 85gal water volume
comsumption Ca 19 mg/l per day => 170ml
comsumption Alk 2,80 dKH per day => 173ml

calculation for Randy#2 85gal water volume
comsumption Ca 19 mg/l per day => 340ml
comsumption Alk 2,80 dKH per day => 343ml


my recommenadtion to puzzle out
- Check your water tests readings my really calibrating it first. Just testing with two test kits and having roughly the same results is not a guarantee. Better use a Multi Referende solution and measure its knwo values with your testkits. Only if they match, you know you are right. Use the determined correction factors for your future own tank water tests if results differ
Have a look on this FAQ if you are unsure what i wrote here. chapters 1.5, 1.11, 1.12
http://mathgame.de/Aqua/WaterParameter_FAQ_eng.pdf

- Check out what you really have to dose based on the consumption you have
(write my a pn and i will send you a free key to my calculation software if you are unsure how to do so)
- Measure
- Dose the required, calculated amounts not by dosing pump but by hand (syringe)
- Measure

then lets look what is going on

best rgds
Martin