Hyposalinity: how-to; when-to; how-long-to

[wooden_reefer]

"Why a bare tank? Because when under assault, the ich will encyst and drop off the fish to attach to sand, rock, or filter media. Get rid of media daily. Because the visible ich has left your fish is no guarantee it's gone. [hint: I go to the hobby store and get a big bag of polyester pillow stuffing; wrap a tuft of that cheap stuff around a teaspoon of carbon---yes! you can use carbon while using hypo, another virtue---and use that for your filter. You can rig a very potent little filter with an old CD holder: put the pump in the bottom, put pillowstuffing atop, and let 'er rip. It's a pot filter, which I use in my koi pond, and it is pretty efficient. Couple that with an air filter with a bubble wand, and you've got plenty of filtration and plenty of oxygen."

I have to completely disagree with this approach of bare tank.

While the reason is plausible, the problem with ammonia is greater.

If the hypo condition will kill 1000 ich organisms, it will also kill 1000,000. True, there can be genetic varaition among them (say most will be killed at 0.010 but a few may survive), but this is not the focus if you treat for long enough.

That a bare tank will trap fewer ich is plausible, but this cannot be the focus; which is to make sure that the fish is not exposed to any ammonia during treatment (so that the treatment can be long and safe).

I actually use a "bare tank" but I have a separate mature, cycled medium running at all times so that the ammonia is zero.

Do not do away with biological filtration during QT or treatment whenever possible; this will allow less effort and longer treatment.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I have been in this hobby for over thirty years and have seen all the advents and misunderstanding.

Live rock is an advent, but other filtration medium and setup are also very useful, such as in QT.

I always cycled some medium separately and use for QT for extended periods. This medium can be a few cups of crushed coral (if you want some buffer against extremely low PH, it won't keep PH ideally high), or just filter medium polyester.

In regard to QT, some people are truely impatient, but most are fed up with the work needed. So the best QT is the one the requires the least effort, just waiting

I have not had any ich for over 25 years because I have the right belief and approach.

Irradication is the only way and the right QT setup is one that is effective and easy and effortless for the aquarist.

 

[wooden_reefer]

If you start with new water from mix, it is generally not necessary to do any water change during QT to irradicate ich.

I put my new fish in QT for about 8 weeks without water change, unless the fish or number of fish is large.

Visually check to make sure the setup is functioning and there is few other things to do but wait.

 

[sleepydoc]

Having completed 30 days of hypo I though I'd post some info I found helpful. I found myself constantly trying to figure out how much DI water to add to the tank to drop the salinity by xx or, on the way up, how much would xx gallons of water at 1.026 raise the salinity by? Below are some equations to help.

To calculate the ending salinity after a water change:
B =[(V-W)*A + S*W] / V
To calculate the size of a water change to move the salinity:
W = V(B-A)/(S-A)
To calculate the needed salinity in a water change:
S = [V*B - (V-W)*A] / W

The variables in these equations are as follows:
W = volume of water change
V = Volume of Tank
A = starting tank salinity - 1 (i.e. use 25 instead of 1.025)
B = Ending tank salinity - 1 (again, use 25 instead of 1.025)
S = salinity of water change (same here, drop the 1.0 and just use the last 2 digits)

For example, you have a 30 gallon tank at 1.025 and you are changing 5 gallons with DI water:
B = [(30-5)*25 + 0*5] / 30 = [625 - 0]/30 = 20.8 (the ending SG will be 1.0208)

Your 30 gallon tank is at 1.009 and you want to bring it up to 1.011 with water that's 1.025:
W = 30*(11-9)/(25-9) = 3.75 gallons (you need to do a 3.75 gallon water change with water that's 1.025 to bring the salinity up from 1.009 to 1.011)

Hope these help people!

 

[sleepydoc]

Having completed 30 days of hypo I though I'd post some info I found helpful. I found myself constantly trying to figure out how much DI water to add to the tank to drop the salinity by xx or, on the way up, how much would xx gallons of water at 1.026 raise the salinity by? Below are some equations to help.

To calculate the ending salinity after a water change:
B =[(V-W)*A + S*W] / V
To calculate the size of a water change to move the salinity:
W = V(B-A)/(S-A)
To calculate the needed salinity in a water change:
S = [V*B - (V-W)*A] / W

The variables in these equations are as follows:
W = volume of water change
V = Volume of Tank
A = starting tank salinity - 1 (i.e. use 25 instead of 1.025)
B = Ending tank salinity - 1 (again, use 25 instead of 1.025)
S = salinity of water change (same here, drop the 1.0 and just use the last 2 digits)

For example, you have a 30 gallon tank at 1.025 and you are changing 5 gallons with DI water:
B = [(30-5)*25 + 0*5] / 30 = [625 - 0]/30 = 20.8 (the ending SG will be 1.0208)

Your 30 gallon tank is at 1.009 and you want to bring it up to 1.011 with water that's 1.025:
W = 30*(11-9)/(25-9) = 3.75 gallons (you need to do a 3.75 gallon water change with water that's 1.025 to bring the salinity up from 1.009 to 1.011)

Hope these help people!

 

[SPotter]

After some sudden deaths of several fish followed by a break out of ich, I decided to take my tank hypo. I had been having problems with my rock leaching po4 and wanted to change out my substrate so this was the perfect opportunity. Between Friday and last night I removed my substrate which was less than an 1" and pulled all of my rock but 6 decent sized pieces. These pieces will eventually be pulled and not returned to the tank.

I have a couple of questions.....
1.) I got my sg down 1.010 and I have been doing smaller wc's around 20g but it wont go any lower. I am afraid to do anything larger and over shoot the 1.009 target. Is this ok?
2.) How often should I feed the fish as I am concerned about the reduced biological filtration available?
3.) My skimmer is not producing any bubbles now that the sg level has been lowered, should I just turn the skimmer off?
4.) When should I do my next maintenance water change?

So far since bringing the sg level down I have only experience one additional death of an anthias and the rest of the fish are eating like pigs and spots going away.

 

[SPotter]

After some sudden deaths of several fish followed by a break out of ich, I decided to take my tank hypo. I had been having problems with my rock leaching po4 and wanted to change out my substrate so this was the perfect opportunity. Between Friday and last night I removed my substrate which was less than an 1" and pulled all of my rock but 6 decent sized pieces. These pieces will eventually be pulled and not returned to the tank.

I have a couple of questions.....
1.) I got my sg down 1.010 and I have been doing smaller wc's around 20g but it wont go any lower. I am afraid to do anything larger and over shoot the 1.009 target. Is this ok?
2.) How often should I feed the fish as I am concerned about the reduced biological filtration available?
3.) My skimmer is not producing any bubbles now that the sg level has been lowered, should I just turn the skimmer off?
4.) When should I do my next maintenance water change?

So far since bringing the sg level down I have only experience one additional death of an anthias and the rest of the fish are eating like pigs and spots going away.

 

[JohnnyB in SD]

Hi Steve,
Fancy meeting you here! I was checking this out because I have a new Naso in QT that appears to have ich.
I feel your pain, went through similar to what you are up against with a full blown parasite infestation in the DT a couple years ago. Think it came from a Midas Blenny. Used copper in a hospital tank, wiped out half my fish. Is one reason why I religiously QT new livestock.
Not an expert so won't give you any advice beyond my experience of start feeding minimal, keep a close eye on basic water quality, and increase feeding as biological filtration allows. Immediate water changes if ammonia or nitrite appears.
If it were me I'd not run the skimmer, maybe use it where you're holding your live rock & such?
Are we having fun yet?
GOOD LUCK

 

[SPotter]

Hey Johnny!!! We are having loads of fun. My tank is no where near what I wanted it be coming up on the 1 yr of the upgrade. This is my Alamo and wont let this beat me. Its been very depressing to look at the tank but I am using this time to explore some changes I want to make to the tank. I came home tonight to find my gold flake angel swollen like a parade balloon. Anyone know if I can use prazipro during hypo?

 

[flameangel88]

I haven't been on RC much but just came across your post while reading another thread I subscribe to on this forum. I normally keep the sg between 1.08-1.09 and perform 20% WC every 2-3 days for the first 2 weeks since most die-off will be during that time then 25-30% weekly WC. I do keep my skimmer on during the 10 weeks of hypo. You will not get a whole lot of skimmate but you will get some and more importantly it will provide more oxygen to your tank.

I hope your GF angel is well. Is the swollen area around the stomach? I had one for a little over a year and all of a sudden the stomach area was swollen and died after about 5-6 weeks (I hope this is not your case). The fish was treated with 2 rounds of prazi on intro. I've seen other GFs died after a swollen stomach.

I have never done prazi during hypo but remember reading something about not to do it.

Best of luck!

Kevin

 

[SPotter]

I haven't been on RC much but just came across your post while reading another thread I subscribe to on this forum. I normally keep the sg between 1.08-1.09 and perform 20% WC every 2-3 days for the first 2 weeks since most die-off will be during that time then 25-30% weekly WC. I do keep my skimmer on during the 10 weeks of hypo. You will not get a whole lot of skimmate but you will get some and more importantly it will provide more oxygen to your tank.

I hope your GF angel is well. Is the swollen area around the stomach? I had one for a little over a year and all of a sudden the stomach area was swollen and died after about 5-6 weeks (I hope this is not your case). The fish was treated with 2 rounds of prazi on intro. I've seen other GFs died after a swollen stomach.

I have never done prazi during hypo but remember reading something about not to do it.

Best of luck!

Kevin

Thanks for the response Kevin. Unfortunately the GF did not make it :thumbdown. I now believe it was dropsy since its scales were sticking out and it had a pinecone look to it. Figures the one time my wife goes with me to buy a fish and I spend a lot of money on it, it dies. There was no "oh that fish, it was only $40" I have heard about others having the same problem with GF and other angels as well.

 

[cnguyenl]

Great info, thanks!

 

[DeathMagnetic]

question on hypo.. i have been reading that clownfish cannot tolerate 1.009 salinity..

is this true ? how do i go about hypo if it is..

TY

JD

 

[sleepydoc]

I've never read that, and have read of other people using hypo with clowns, so I would question the claim. You do need to be careful with hypo - you're basically dropping the salinity to a point that it's toxic to the parasite and almost toxic to the fish. A few points either way will either make it less toxic to the parasite or more toxic to the fish.

If you're worried about the effects of hypo on the fish, I would read about tank transfer.

 

[billsreef]

question on hypo.. i have been reading that clownfish cannot tolerate 1.009 salinity..

is this true ? how do i go about hypo if it is..

TY

JD

It's not true. I've treated 100's of clowns with hypo.

 

[Bad LS1]

I'm about to start a hypo treatment on 3 purple tangs and an Achilles. I have caught them and moved them to a 100 gal tank. I understand how to do the hypo treatment. My question is about my 240 gal they were in. I want it to go fallow for 8 weeks.

Now that the fish are out. Do I need to worry about the 15 snails and 2 cleaner shrimp I have? Can they stay in there during fallow? Thanks

 

[Dmorty217]

No need to worry about inverts since they don't get the same diseases as fish do so with them in your tank for 8 wks you will be fine

 

[DrPat]

I have used hypo salinity for the past forty years or so.I would caution you about the duration of exposing reef fish to hypo salinity for extended periods.I keep fish in 1.012 for 3 weeks with copper safe in the Q-tank.Add kents garlic guard to all food and 1 drop/gallon of tank water two to three times a day.also add vit C to food and 1 drop /gallon daily to the Q tank. Fish exposed to hypo-salinity for extended periods of time can develop kidney disease and never recover. IN THE FOURTH WEEK I START TO BRING THE SALINITY back to 1.025, if the fish are not showing signs of disease I then filter out the copper with purigen. The fish remain isolated for 3 weeks more and if they are eating well in a strong state of health with out disease I transfer them to the display tank I would not use carbon since it can cause LLD OR OTHER DAMAGE TO SCALES OF TANGS ,ANGELS AND OTHER FISH. ALL FISH SHOULD GO THROUGH THIS ISOLATED treatment before entering the display tank. Q-tanks should have a eggcrate cover, active biofilter, uv filter ,adequate light and water temp. of 82F. One other note ick is always present in our tanks once introduced, control is achieved by keeping fish healthy with good nutrition , kents garlic extreme and vitamin C added daily to all food good water quality and UV FILTERS TO KILL FREE SWIMING FORMS OF PARASITES.sand stirring will also increase the incidence of ick outbreaks.Fish can develope immunity to ick.

 

[Bad LS1]

No need to worry about inverts since they don't get the same diseases as fish do so with them in your tank for 8 wks you will be fine

Thanks Dmorty.

One last question. This is my refractometer below. As you can see it only goes down to 1.015. I have some calibration fluid that is 1.026. If I use the solution to calibrate BUT instead of having the line at 1.026 can I turn the screw and set the line at 1.030. That way the refractometer reads 1.015 will it actually be at 1.011? Then I could use the tank water at 1.011 and advance the setting up to say 1.015. Then as it drops to 1.013 I know it's actually at 1.009. Does that make sense and will it work?

 

[billsreef]

I have used hypo salinity for the past forty years or so.I would caution you about the duration of exposing reef fish to hypo salinity for extended periods.I keep fish in 1.012 for 3 weeks with copper safe in the Q-tank.Add kents garlic guard to all food and 1 drop/gallon of tank water two to three times a day.also add vit C to food and 1 drop /gallon daily to the Q tank. Fish exposed to hypo-salinity for extended periods of time can develop kidney disease and never recover. IN THE FOURTH WEEK I START TO BRING THE SALINITY back to 1.025, if the fish are not showing signs of disease I then filter out the copper with purigen. The fish remain isolated for 3 weeks more and if they are eating well in a strong state of health with out disease I transfer them to the display tank I would not use carbon since it can cause LLD OR OTHER DAMAGE TO SCALES OF TANGS ,ANGELS AND OTHER FISH. ALL FISH SHOULD GO THROUGH THIS ISOLATED treatment before entering the display tank. Q-tanks should have a eggcrate cover, active biofilter, uv filter ,adequate light and water temp. of 82F. One other note ick is always present in our tanks once introduced, control is achieved by keeping fish healthy with good nutrition , kents garlic extreme and vitamin C added daily to all food good water quality and UV FILTERS TO KILL FREE SWIMING FORMS OF PARASITES.sand stirring will also increase the incidence of ick outbreaks.Fish can develope immunity to ick.

For hyposalinity to be effective, the salinity has to be below 1.012. The range for treating ich is 1.009 to 1.010, anything over 1.010 will allow the ich to survive. As for duration, the few weeks needed to treat, or even a couple of extra weeks, is a plenty short enough duration to avoid any problems from prolonged (i.e. months or more) time at hypo. While copper can be used in conjunction with hypo, great care must be taken to ensure that proper SW alkalinity is maintained...as copper is more toxic at lower alkalinity. There's also no reason that stirring a sand bed should increase the incidence of ich. In regards to immunity, yes, in some cases the fish can develop an immunity...this requires the infection be light enough not to overwhelm the fish, which quite often doesn't happen with the what is the equivelent of the fox in the hen house scenario that is our glass boxes. So I wouldn't rely on it.

For a good read on ich and various treatments, including the proper way to perform hypo...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php