I believe I have an Ich outbreak...quite shocked!!

[slojmn]

I have had my current reef established for a little over five years, all fish healthy and happy. No new fish additions in over a year. the new addition...a batch of snails last Friday. 5 days later my Black Tang, Muelleri Butterfly Fish, and Hybrid Resplendent Angelfish have signs of Ich, the rest of the fish don't seem to have any signs of it yet. The tang and butterfly much more than the angel. I can only believe that the parasite came in on the snails. All my fish have been with me for between 2-8 years. I am super peeved :sad2: about this!!! So putting that aside I need to act. I have some very nice fish and all have been with me a long time.
Fish List:
Black Tang
Muelleri Butterfly
Hybrid Resplendent Angel
Mandarin Dragonette
Candy Basslet
(2) Choati Wrasses
Scooter Blenny
(2) paired Picasso Clownfish

My plan: Tank Transfer method over the next two-three weeks between two 50g Rubbermaid clear containers with HOB filters. After that all fish will slowly go into my 60g reef tank that is currently sitting dry. I will keep the display tank fallow for a total of 10 weeks. I keep the 60g reef setup in the garage for any purpose like this. It is fully set up but hasn't seen water since my AEFW issue a long while back when it became my QT for all my Acroporas. I plan to start it up this weekend and cycle it over the next 2-3 weeks and then slowly add my fish to it from the 50g containers once they show no signs of Ich and I have gone through the tank transfer protocol in its entirety. I don't want to add the fish to the 60 g too fast and have a mini cycle once it has gone through a cycle to get going.

The problem: I have a beautiful pair of Choati wrasses that are fat and healthy, over two years in my reef. Keeping them happy during this whole tank transfer process is my one concern :sad1:. They need sand. I am thinking to add a pile of sand in the 50g container for them, then remove it when cleaning the tank after a transfer to the other 50g container which would have fresh sand in it and so forth through the process. New sand in each container for each transfer. My hope is that they don't dive in the sand all stressed out and never emerge within the 3 day process.I will keep the sand area relatively small so I could carefully dislodge them if need be when the tank transfer time came, though I am loathe to do this.
second problem, catching the fish in a full blown reef that is set up just like I want it!! This is where I start to feel really peeved again!! Although I know being angry is not going to solve anything. I just never guessed the snails would do me in. I just didn't even consider it an issue.

Any thoughts or suggestions for any part of my plan and or problems and how to deal with them. Thanks in advance.

 

[snorvich]

Tank transfer is by far the best. Get extra sand that can be put into each transfer tank new for the Choati. Choati are very, very sensitive to pH changes so be careful.

Capturing the Choati will be a major PITA as they will dive into the sand at the first sign of disruption. For other than sand dwelling fish, draining the tank down to about 1-2 inches is best way, but I cannot begin to figure out how to do the leopard wrasses.

For all fish going through tank transfer except the Choati leopard wrasses, I would use Prime or equivalent as an ammonia retardent with the ammonia badges to monitor. For the leopard wrasses, I have no idea if that would be safe.

Anything wet can bring in the parasite. Best never to buy from a system which has fish in it, but QT, especially in your case, would be optimal. So sorry, Alicia.

 

[Deinonych]

So sorry to hear that. I had a major outbreak last summer from a similar vector - a piece of coral. All of my fish had been quarantined, so I was in denial at first. The guilty suspect was likely a zoa colony on live rock - I believe some tomonts were attached to the live rock chunk. I now QT everything - fish for 8+ weeks and inverts for 10.

 

[slojmn]

Well, after talking with the folks where I got the snails they are probably correct in their assumption that it was not on the snails. They feel it happened too fast for that to be the culprit. Who knows...At this point I am in a wait and see pattern. The Choatis are the real dilemma. Everyone is very fat and healthy so there is an outside chance they may fight the infestation with some homeopathic avenues, I am hopeful but not particularly optimistic. If they get worse I will go forward with my plan and do the best I can.

I may try and capture the Choatis as they emerge in the early morning from the sand bed...otherwise I have no idea how to get them. My Candy Basslet is another stumper...he will hide in the rock work in some nook and cranny and I'll never even know which rock he is in. Uggg, so it goes. Right when you think things are nice and stable and you are having a great year and then some with stellar tank health something comes up to bite you!!! On the bright side, the tank is healthy but something triggered this outbreak, what?? That is the million dollar question.

 

[snorvich]

What else changed/was added?

 

[snorvich]

Yes, Candy Basslet presents another type of problem due to their cryptic nature. I was too focused on the wrasses to think about that one.

 

[ca1ore]

Although I have never kept Choatis, I have had other Leopards and when ich has been in my tank they have never contracted it. Although it is risky, I wonder if you could just remove to HT those fish that are more susceptible and leave the leopards in an almost-fallow tank? Not ideal, but maybe worth a try?

I'm in a similar situation with ich pretty clearly in my tank, but most fish asymptomatic. Should removing the fish become necessary, I see no way to do it without dismantling the whole reef structure.

Good luck.

 

[Rea17]

I've successfully used an aquamedic trap on my leopard wrasses, though not chaoti specifically. I agree with the above that TT is going to be your best bet if you decide to catch and treat the fish. Good luck, hope things shape up.

 

[slojmn]

I continue to just see the Black Tang and Muelleri BF with symptoms. None of the other fish show any signs. The spots on the tang have increased, they have decreased on the Muelleri. I am still in a wait and see pattern. I have talked to a number of folks that say it is possible for just one or two fish to be affected and the others not. Seeing the tang more covered is not a great sign but seeing none other fish impacted, other than Muelelri, at this point might be a positive...at least for now.

As far as changes...not much, started adding vinegar in January, I've been using PO4 RX for a while without any trouble. I always clean my shallow sand bed so that is no different. Maybe the vinegar addition has caused some issues?? although params are all still very stable and have been for quite a long time, hence healthy coral growth and fat and happy fish up until this week.

 

[snorvich]

I have talked to a number of folks that say it is possible for just one or two fish to be affected and the others not.

With all due respect to those folks, I disagree. Short term, yes, long term no. Remember that cryptocaryon irritans does not have to exhibit symptoms in order to be present on a fish.

 

[slojmn]

So many mixed suggestions and advice. I am definitely prepared to do the tank transfer method if need be, which will probably need to be. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[MrTuskfish]

With all due respect to those folks, I disagree. Short term, yes, long term no. Remember that cryptocaryon irritans does not have to exhibit symptoms in order to be present on a fish.

I agree, sooner or later, the ich wins. I would never be comfortable knowing ich was in a tank of mine. Especially with a fish that spends the night in the substrate, mother ich parasites release their next generation usually from the substrate and usually at night.

 

[slojmn]

I wanted to update this thread...you were right, ich won out. I eventually transferred my black tang and muelleri butterfly a week ago to the QT tank. After a week they both look much better. However, in that week my Picasso clown pair and scooter blennie, left in the main tank along with the rest of the fish, began to look way worse. I finally knew I had no choice. Yesterday we dismantled the largest sections of my reef and placed them in large containers. We emptied the tank more than half way and went to work at catching the remaining fish: Choati pair, mandarin, scooter, Picasso clown pair, Resplendent hybrid angel, and candy Basslet. We caught the large choati quickly and instead of watching the smaller one I watched my partner in crime deposit the big guy into the holding bucket. To my consternation I had not witnessed where the smaller one dove into the sand. I was so mad at myself because our mantra was "watch the Choatis and candy no matter WHAT!" That Way we would know where the heck they were. So we continued to capture the rest of the fish with little effort and very little stress, or at least it seemed that way to us, the fish might have felt differently. Eventually we were left to only find the small choati. I carefully cupped my hand into the sand in the back area of the tank very slowly, we knew what side he had been on when we last saw him so that was where I started. It only took a moment to come upon him and he moved ever so slightly to back away from my fingers. We stuck a net right there and I slowly and carefully encouraged him out, he came up and right into the net. Done!!!

I put all of the fish with the tang and butterfly in the QT along with some pieces of plastic for hiding spots. Unfortunately the black PVC elbows I bought won't stay still in the QT, the flow blows them around so I stuck a black frag tray in at an angle so they can hide behind and under it. I also put a small box of sand in there for the Choatis. I fed the QT in the evening and the Choatis slurped up some food along with most of the others. I didn't see my mandarin eat but I figure he will in a few days. He has always eaten prepared foods so I am hopeful he will eventually get settled and eat well. The tang and butterfly are voraciously eating now. The only bummers is that they intimidate my candy...I'll have to watch for that. I thought that my punky angel was the intimidator of the candy. Not so, once the two big fish were in QT for the last week the candy has been out and about constantly. It could be challenging for her in such a small space to feel comfortable to come out and get food. I really don't want to have set up a separate QT for a few fish....then I would have to do four containers! However, if she continues to be to intimidated to get out and get food I'll do it.

This morning I could see what I think are the Choatis buried in their sand box. Everyone else is accounted for and seem to be fine.

I have a 60g reef ready tank sitting dry in the garage for just this kind of thing so once it is cycled and the fish show no signs of ich, 3 weeks will hopefully do the trick, in they will go to their rental while their house is under fumigation . I know 14 days is protocol but I think the 60g will need more time than that to cycle. I will slowly add the fish to the 60g as their new home for the 3 months it will take for the main display to be as ich free as is possible. I am crossing my fingers that they all survive this oddysee. I know they were not going to make it with my "wait and see" plan....but I had to try. It's that darn Choati pair that I am the most worried about. I can only do what I can do.

On a really positive note I put the reef back together again fairly close to how it looked before we dismantled it and all of my corals seemed to have survived the whole mess as well. I'll update as this goes forward.

 

[WayneL333]

Wow, sorry to hear about your troubles. This hobby of ours can be quite frustrating at times!

 

[slojmn]

Wow, sorry to hear about your troubles. This hobby of ours can be quite frustrating at times!

Wayne, Simple but well said!!! I figure in 18 plus years I have only had to deal with this one other time...very early on when I didn't know as much as I do now....so I am quite lucky. I won't ever know what led to the stress in the tank that led to the outbreak but I am hopeful that 3-4 months without fish will be long enough for whatever stressed them out to no longer be an issue.

 

[bobkill]

Thanks for sharing- I am sure this is / was super frustrating -

 

[ca1ore]

I have been in a similar place. Hippo tang in my 265 shows spots periodically, and has since late last year. Yet none of my other 25 or so do. Sometimes I think i see other spots, but just my imagination apparently. Hippo has now been spot free for almost two weeks. Not sure what to think. Not going to do anything unless symptoms become more obvious. Perhaps it's not actually ich. I would have though active spots on one fish would have spread to others after almost 3 months.

 

[slojmn]

I have been in a similar place. Hippo tang in my 265 shows spots periodically, and has since late last year. Yet none of my other 25 or so do. Sometimes I think i see other spots, but just my imagination apparently. Hippo has now been spot free for almost two weeks. Not sure what to think. Not going to do anything unless symptoms become more obvious. Perhaps it's not actually ich. I would have though active spots on one fish would have spread to others after almost 3 months.

Seems like those spots would have spread, it could be they are at really low levels maybe...hard to know. The few fish that showed signs of it in my system were covered within a week or two. Definitely the real deal outbreak. :sad1:

 

[snorvich]

For cryptocaryon irritans, visible symptoms come and go. Just the way the life cycle works. Ich is a parasite that eventually overwhelms as it exponentially increases over many life cycles.

 

[slojmn]

What is the need as far as flow in the holding tub?? I have an air stone bubbling away, do I need the tunze nano stream as well? I've been running it but I have been wondering if I need it. Choati Wrasses are doing great!! Candy and mandarin still not eating. I'm a bit worried.