SpartaReef
New member
So you are saying that the lights on our tanks are so good that sunlight is irrelevant?
One of us is wrong...
I don't do water changes
- Thread starter houstonhobby
- Start date
One of us is wrong...
(and there lies the rub)
i worked for awhile for a (now defunct) small importer/whoresaler near oxnard ca, and they used water pumped in directly from port hueneme. the water was treated w/chlorine bleach for a day or so, then the bleach was removed, iirc, by using sodium thio and carbon. worked very well, never an issue
Sorry, but this is the funniest thing I've read in this thread. Was it Heidi Fleiss?
jimmyj7090
aka John K
Where are you getting this from? Got a source?
Calappidae
Harlequin Shrimp
Sunlight is full spectrum and supports everything. We can agree on that.
But, our fixtures for our systems are different then the sun. The sun has every color wavelengh, certain colors like reds and I believe greens is what algae thrives off of. For corals, we aim for more of the Blues, and whites, such as 10,000k daylights and atinics. I'm not wording it properly, but you could have a metal halide over a macro only tank and recieve very little growth compared to having a metal halide over a SPS reef tank. Thats because most metal halide support UV, atinic, and 10,000k daylight spectrums which corals need that algae doesn't. Reason why we don't have ridicously high lighting on FW planted setups for superior growth that we got in our reef tanks, because it wouldn't work anyway.
But, our fixtures for our systems are different then the sun. The sun has every color wavelengh, certain colors like reds and I believe greens is what algae thrives off of. For corals, we aim for more of the Blues, and whites, such as 10,000k daylights and atinics. I'm not wording it properly, but you could have a metal halide over a macro only tank and recieve very little growth compared to having a metal halide over a SPS reef tank. Thats because most metal halide support UV, atinic, and 10,000k daylight spectrums which corals need that algae doesn't. Reason why we don't have ridicously high lighting on FW planted setups for superior growth that we got in our reef tanks, because it wouldn't work anyway.
SpartaReef
New member
Read it somewhere, an article that someone referenced in one of the threads here.... I don't remember... Check for threads about too much light over our tanks. It had to do with how our lights are actually too strong for the corals and fish, compared to what they get in the wild.
jimmyj7090
aka John K
Many reef tanks / systems have nutrient input and export balanced well enough that water changes are not needed for nutrient control at all. In such systems, water changing's primary benfiit is to replenish what we can't accurately monitor or supplement.
No offense, but if you need water changes for nutrient removal, this may not be the thread for you
jimmyj7090
aka John K
Photo inhibition can happen in some cases, but it's a BIG stretch to say that the possibility of photo inhibition means that corals in reef tanks grow faster than on the real reefs.
jimmyj7090
aka John K
Are you saying that nusiance algae won't grow under MH?
Calappidae
Harlequin Shrimp
It can grow under it, but it wouldn't thrive as much as under a weaker lighting system.
Have you ever done those type of experiments where they place plants under different lighting colors and some grew faster then others? basicly I'm trying to explain that.
jimmyj7090
aka John K
There is something to that ^ but in the end if you have excess nutrients in a reef tank algae will grow. Some lighting might encourage it more than others, but either way it will be a problem.
as a live rock tank yes u dot need to do water changes,reef stocked tank u will cal and mag will deplete fast depinding on ur load and what u have.i have over 50 nems in my 90 so i have to since i dont trust dosin pumps i do bi weekly water changes since i dont want to dose .but for only lr ur good keep it up if thats all u want.but isnt my cup of tea watching something that doesnt do anything.
vitz
New member
as someone whos been doing fw heavily planted tanks for quite awhile, and considers himself to be very experienced in the fw plant world, i call absolute bs on your bolded above statement.
there are tons of high intensity lighting fw planted tanks out there. most of mine were run by halides. there are MANY hi intensity light requiring plants/systems, some running over 4-5 watts/gallon, on not so tall tanks. fw plants do MUCH better under halides than they do under fluoros, all other things being equal, ime. most failures w/ fw plants by starting hobbyists, initially, is due to INSUFFICIENT lighting. (the crappy fluoro setups and bulbs most new systems come with)
in fw, it's just more 6500-10k as opposed to 10-20k.
even my fw planted nanos have had way more lighting than most people use, using fluoros-no one seemed to get that that was the main driver behind my great plant growth, heh.
That has more to do with what's not happening in our tanks that does happen on the reef...namely predation, destructive storms, ship groundings, etc.
As for sunlight, has anyone noticed that coral reefs naturally grow under direct sunlight?
SpartaReef
New member
That has more to do with what's not happening in our tanks that does happen on the reef...namely predation, destructive storms, ship groundings, etc.
As for sunlight, has anyone noticed that coral reefs naturally grow under direct sunlight?
Lol
There are thousands of species of marine algae ; protists/dinoflagelltes like zooxanthelae encopmass over 1500 idientified species alone. They all grow in natural sunlight as do cyanobacteria; they also grow under leds, power compacts, t5's, t 12's,, metal halide form 6K to 20K , ordinary daylight spiral fluorescent lights etc.
Generally, spectral shifts play a relatively insignificant role in selectively growing one or the other relative to nutrient control ,ime.
While all algae require nutrients , some algae are more or less limited by lower levels of nutrients, particularly inorganic phosphate. Green algae for example is usually limited ( ie can't grow) at levels of PO4 under 0.03ppm while red algae( rhodophyta) ,brown algae don't seem to care about PO4 levels in the water. Bryopsis does better with low PO4 than hair algae as an example of variation in limiting effects even within the green species.
Since we've moved the discussion (originally on water changes ) back to natural reefs;it's worth noting natural reefs are exposed to enormous amounts of water volume flowing through over and around them. A cubic meter of space( which holds about 210 gallons of water) on the Great Barrier Reef has approximately 1 million gallons of water flow through it daily.
Many of the corals there are exposed to intense sunlight in very shallow depths and often left high and dry for periods of time when tides drop.
Shifting context back and forth from natural reefs to the minute droplets packed with life in a small amount of water in a teeny tiny closed system just doesn't wash as a useful comparison most of the time.
Generally, spectral shifts play a relatively insignificant role in selectively growing one or the other relative to nutrient control ,ime.
While all algae require nutrients , some algae are more or less limited by lower levels of nutrients, particularly inorganic phosphate. Green algae for example is usually limited ( ie can't grow) at levels of PO4 under 0.03ppm while red algae( rhodophyta) ,brown algae don't seem to care about PO4 levels in the water. Bryopsis does better with low PO4 than hair algae as an example of variation in limiting effects even within the green species.
Since we've moved the discussion (originally on water changes ) back to natural reefs;it's worth noting natural reefs are exposed to enormous amounts of water volume flowing through over and around them. A cubic meter of space( which holds about 210 gallons of water) on the Great Barrier Reef has approximately 1 million gallons of water flow through it daily.
Many of the corals there are exposed to intense sunlight in very shallow depths and often left high and dry for periods of time when tides drop.
Shifting context back and forth from natural reefs to the minute droplets packed with life in a small amount of water in a teeny tiny closed system just doesn't wash as a useful comparison most of the time.
SpartaReef
New member
ROFLOL!!! There are more reasons to do water changes than there are not too.
Ive seen images of tanks that have no artificial lights and use only sunlight. They look superb due to the limitation of nutrients that would fuel algae growth.
Ive seen images of tanks that have no artificial lights and use only sunlight. They look superb due to the limitation of nutrients that would fuel algae growth.
vitz
New member
i do think that reefs aren't nearly as nutrient limited as many people might think.
algaes don't overrun a reef because they don't grow there. it's under (or should be) a constant barrage of herbivores mowing it down constantly. (remember diadema ? ). tangs, urchins, etc etc work constantly and help keep it 'coral friendly'.
it's also now known that there's a HUGE sink of nutrients/bacteria/flock provided by sponges-they may actually be the most important 'garbagemen' of the reef (at least in many areas, mebbe not all).
and you do get that i was joking about water changes being bad
algaes don't overrun a reef because they don't grow there. it's under (or should be) a constant barrage of herbivores mowing it down constantly. (remember diadema ? ). tangs, urchins, etc etc work constantly and help keep it 'coral friendly'.
it's also now known that there's a HUGE sink of nutrients/bacteria/flock provided by sponges-they may actually be the most important 'garbagemen' of the reef (at least in many areas, mebbe not all).
and you do get that i was joking about water changes being bad
vitz
New member
have you ever done an experiment to back up your statement ?
pure twaddle.
nuisance algaes in BOTH fw and sw easily thrive under halides. if anything, the stronger the light source, the BETTER nuisance algaes will do, if the nutrients are there. cyano can explode under halides as well.
why do you think adding or increasing light would slow down anything that is light dependent, or light requiring ? does your car run slower when the octane level of gas increases ?
