I learned about Zoanthid toxin the hard way......

[steveoutlaw]

Do you have a better photo of the toxic zoos?

Unfortunately I don't have a better photo. However, the folks in my local club have nicknamed these "Outlaw stew palys". I don't think I'll ever live this incident down.

 

[GregI]

I am interested in buying some Zoa's but would prefer not to purchase any which are known to be toxic. Does anyone know of a reference that indicates whether a zoa is toxic.

 

[Sugar Magnolia]

All zoas are toxic. No way to avoid it but you can take measures to protect yourself while handling them.

 

[WrongGenotype]

Yes - its great you shared. Knew that zooanthids were toxic, but never thought that boiling them could release the toxin. I've actually done this before, but luckily didn't breath anything in. Again, it good that you shared this kind of information - hopefully it helps others avoid the same fate.

 

[Swift32]

I realize this thread is quite old by now, but I just recently joined RC and just now read this. I have MANY different Palys and Zoas in my tank and I had NO IDEA they were so toxic. Thank you for this write up. I bet you have saved many others from going through what you did, including myself. Thank You for posting this and I am glad to hear that you suffered no long term side effects. Are you still in the hobby after all of this?

 

[shesacharmer]

Palytoxin is very real and so is what happened to you...you know it...we know it. I'm sorry you weren't warned. Thank you for telling your story so others can be wary.

 

[hllywd]

:headwally: Unfortunately nobody posting to this thread can say with certainty the OP's effects were caused by paly toxin, only that it might have been a possibility. There is certainly anecdotal evidence indicating some small portion of the zoas we keep may have it. Asserting that all zoas contain paly toxin is akin to stating that all snakes are poisonous.

What is fairly clear is that our tanks contain some harmful toxins, pathogens, etc... in various forms, and that each of us should take whatever precautions we individually deem appropriate. It seems pretty clear there are some fairly dangerous "bugs" lurking in our aquariums. That's a bigger concern to me, and I still don't were gloves.

It's still my opinion that if serious reactions to these animals was a gigantic issue, you wouldn't be able to own them. They would have been outlawed the first time little 16 year old Jonny working at the pet store keeled over after handling them.

 

[KAMIKAZE0214]

:headwally: Unfortunately nobody posting to this thread can say with certainty the OP's effects were caused by paly toxin, only that it might have been a possibility. There is certainly anecdotal evidence indicating some small portion of the zoas we keep may have it. Asserting that all zoas contain paly toxin is akin to stating that all snakes are poisonous.

What is fairly clear is that our tanks contain some harmful toxins, pathogens, etc... in various forms, and that each of us should take whatever precautions we individually deem appropriate. It seems pretty clear there are some fairly dangerous "bugs" lurking in our aquariums. That's a bigger concern to me, and I still don't were gloves.

It's still my opinion that if serious reactions to these animals was a gigantic issue, you wouldn't be able to own them. They would have been outlawed the first time little 16 year old Jonny working at the pet store keeled over after handling them.

Wow. I treat all snakes I can't identify as poisonous. I don't like living life on the edge. Same reason I don't eat all red berries I see.

I don't know they are all poisonous, but my life sure has less emergency room visits.

 

[hllywd]

This is hobby terrorism. Someone makes a post claiming symptoms caused by "paly toxin". Never mind the symptoms could have been caused by myriad other things attached to the OP's liverock, or something the OP didn't observe that was completely unrelated. It then causes others who are susceptible to believing things they read on the internet as gospel without checking objectively for themselves. Do we know for a fact the OP's wife hadn't sprayed some type of cleaner on the stove? Did you know some cleaners can react with heat or other chemicals and produce deadly, or extremely debilitating fumes? A little Clorox, and household ammonia produces deadly chlorine gas... No, all other possibilities are overlooked because it had to be paly toxin and the hysteria begins, the thread lives, and the conjecture is perpetuated.

Is it possible the reaction was caused by paly toxin? Of course it's possible, but all things being equal, I believe there are many more likely scenarios.


KAMIKAZE0214, Do you live your entire life that way? Treat every car ride like a tire is going to blow out and cause you to lose control, add bleach to the wash like it's going to splash in your eyes, expect everyday there's going to be some type of natural disaster that affects you, etc...? No you make the choice which risks you're going to accept, and which ones you can manage as I previously suggested. Treating this particular risk in a hysterical manner, especially with no verifiable, concrete proof, like some of the posts here do is silly. Are precautions prudent? Of course they are. But for crying out loud some here make it sound like a level A haz-mat suit is necessary and that's just wrong.

 

[Kyuss]

Not sure why you've been trying so hard over the years to downplay this guys story. He let people know his experience with it, take from it what you will.

It's still my opinion that if serious reactions to these animals was a gigantic issue, you wouldn't be able to own them. They would have been outlawed the first time little 16 year old Jonny working at the pet store keeled over after handling them.

Do we know for a fact the OP's wife hadn't sprayed some type of cleaner on the stove? Did you know some cleaners can react with heat or other chemicals and produce deadly, or extremely debilitating fumes? A little Clorox, and household ammonia produces deadly chlorine gas... No, all other possibilities are overlooked because it had to be paly toxin and the hysteria begins, the thread lives, and the conjecture is perpetuated.

You're all over the place here... I'm quite sure a lot more people deal with Chlorox and household ammonia (or how about chlorinated brake cleaner for automotive use, you know where you're breaking out a torch a lot of the time as well) on a much more frequent basis, and yet they're not outlawed, and heck you don't hear about people getting hauled off to the hospital every day for inhaling chlorine gas.

His zoas were tested by the FDA and found to in fact have palytoxins (I'm pretty sure those are toxic.) That doesn't mean they all do, or even a good portion of them do. But obviously there are some in the aquarium trade that do, and since we can't be certain which ones do short of having them all tested, it's probably wise to exercise some caution when handling them, no? Especially when the precautions are very quick, cheap, and easy.

In the end, if you want to believe it was the perfect storm of his wifes cleaning habits on that particular day and want to lick your zoas, have at it, nobody here is going to stop you, or will say with any certainty you'll keel over. Best of luck to you, but I'm sure most will save their gambling for the casino.

 

[hllywd]

Come on Kris, "Take from it what you will"? I've said all along each individual should take precautions they deem appropriate. To blindly believe though that if one incident was caused by paly toxin, all zoas contain it, as has been stated here, is foolish. The most that should be taken from this reported experience is that some animals in the trade do have paly toxin. And second, don't boil live rock and breath the vapors, especially if the rock has zoas attached.

Beyond that there is a lot more anecdotal evidence/experience that it's fairly difficult to actually be harmed by your zoas; hundreds if not thousands of hobbyists handle them daily without incident. I do however know a guy that needed a dozen stitches in his thumb (wasn't me, I saw it and it was that bad!)one day while fragging his... but that's another story.

It boils down to this, read the thread and apply some objectivity, and/or skepticism to nearly anything you read on the internet. That method seems to be lacking in this thread. If that means you dismiss whatever I have to say, I'm comfortable with it, at least someone tried to introduce some objectivity to the discussion.

That's all.

 

[KAMIKAZE0214]

This is hobby terrorism. Someone makes a post claiming symptoms caused by "paly toxin". Never mind the symptoms could have been caused by myriad other things attached to the OP's liverock, or something the OP didn't observe that was completely unrelated. It then causes others who are susceptible to believing things they read on the internet as gospel without checking objectively for themselves. Do we know for a fact the OP's wife hadn't sprayed some type of cleaner on the stove? Did you know some cleaners can react with heat or other chemicals and produce deadly, or extremely debilitating fumes? A little Clorox, and household ammonia produces deadly chlorine gas... No, all other possibilities are overlooked because it had to be paly toxin and the hysteria begins, the thread lives, and the conjecture is perpetuated.

Is it possible the reaction was caused by paly toxin? Of course it's possible, but all things being equal, I believe there are many more likely scenarios.


KAMIKAZE0214, Do you live your entire life that way? Treat every car ride like a tire is going to blow out and cause you to lose control, add bleach to the wash like it's going to splash in your eyes, expect everyday there's going to be some type of natural disaster that affects you, etc...? No you make the choice which risks you're going to accept, and which ones you can manage as I previously suggested. Treating this particular risk in a hysterical manner, especially with no verifiable, concrete proof, like some of the posts here do is silly. Are precautions prudent? Of course they are. But for crying out loud some here make it sound like a level A haz-mat suit is necessary and that's just wrong.

Gloves and glasses for fragging paly's. That isn't a haz-mat suit. Being prudent doesn't make you hysterical. Informing others of your personal experiences doesn't make you a hobby terrorist. Being an *** about others personal experiences is.

 

[Reefer__Madness]

This is my first actual post but the topic really hit home for me. I am actually just getting started on my first saltwater tank so all of you are more experienced. However this thread is now linked to by a Discover Magazine article. If their findings also suggest the OPs health problems were caused by paly toxin then that's good enough for me to believe.
Also I am glad that the OP is feeling better but from my personal experience it is a long road ahead of respiratory issues. I am an avid surfer and was used to spending time in the ocean every day. In SoCal I was not used to seeing dark red water. Around 6yrs ago I walked down to my surf spot and that's exactly what I saw.. There was one other person out and she said she it should be fine. Little did I know at the time that I was soaking in algae toxins that killed marine mammals and fish. I had asthma as a kid but had no symptoms for over ten yrs. My few hours out in my backyard surf spot ended up sending me to the ER later that night as well as several more times over the course of a couple weeks. I had my own nebulizer but the drugs I was given were often not strong enough to help so Id be back at the ER. Medical bills ended up being over a few thousand. I continued to have severe asthma problems on and off for the next few years. Those symptoms finally subsided until I moved to the east coast. They have now flared back up and continue to be an issue.
The orinal post is from a long time back. Is the OP fully better now? Has anyone else in this group experienced anything like this? I have to admit that because I have asthma already and have already gone through a horrible experience with toxins from algae I'm a bit nervous to really dive into this hobby I've been wanting to take part in for so long

 

[tkeracer619]

For whatever reason a lot of people dismiss is as nonsense. They are wrong. I gave up arguing with their silly "what ifs" many moons ago.

If you really have concerns call poison control and ask about palytoxin poisoning. They will give you straight answers.

Keep them at your own risk.

 

[Harrhugh]

Wow! I handle my zoos and touch my face. I get a tingly sensation and I keep on going. I'm going to be very careful from now on. Thanks for sharing! Be well!

 

[gentledental4u]

what a fantastic read!