I think I have a problem - A little starting advice & some sympathy please

[Angel*Fish]

Sorry this is long -- I know you guys are busy admiring your large tanks...

A LFS has a 40,000 g tank. When I go there I take a moment to admire the tank & move on to whatever I came to the store for.

The last few times, though, I've been feeling jealous of the tank & thinking thoughts like , "My flame angels could sure use the extra space. It's not right that they have to live in my tiny 100g."

Now that's said with a smile because I know it sounds silly.

But it is actually the truth of how I feel --- I am haunted by this mental picture of the leisurely swimming of the flame angel in that tank.

(My post is specific to the flame angels just to give a sample of the weird, but serious thoughts I'm having. )


I know I'll never have a 40,000g tank - But can someone recommend a tank size that is doable without busting my electric bill & amount of time I spend caring for it?

I think I could settle for a tank that's at least 10 feet long & 3.5 feet high - not sure about width maybe 3 feet?

To save money I could have intense halides on just one end. Does anyone do it that way?

What kind of electric bills do you big tank guys have? Besides cleaning the glass... is a huge tank really that much more maintenance that a 100g?

I'm not interested in a heavy fish load that would result from large angels or tangs.

Thoughts or suggestions? I think I have been bit by a bug that is not going to go away.

 

[kwl1763]

Well I'll just start by saying get out the checkbook. You have to have some serious cash to do the ~700G your talking about.

The electric bill will probably be a couple hundred more but your upfront setup costs are huge! Easily nearing 10k I would estimate.

Honestly if your trying to skimp on halides to save money then I would be very hesitant in doing it. That will be the least of your costs and if you can't afford a couple hundred here or there it will be tough!

If money is OK is plenty other things to deal with. With that much water you must plan for humidity and a way to deal with it. Can you have a fish equipment room? Plumbing is usually much more of a challange, etc, etc.

I honestly don't think it's that much more work on an ongoing basis then a 100G but man the setup is 100x the work and a lot more money also.

 

[Angel*Fish]

Honestly if your trying to skimp on halides to save money then I would be very hesitant in doing it.

Good point - My thought was to install them over the whole tank, as I'm very addicted to the look...but to save on the monthly electric bill by only "planting" half the tank with corals that need the lights running all day. So basically they'd just be turned on when I'm watching the tank.

With that much water you must plan for humidity and a way to deal with it. Can you have a fish equipment room? Plumbing is usually much more of a challange, etc, etc.

Thanks for the humidity comment - thanks the kind of stuff I would never think of. I'll have to ponder that.

As for equipment room, not without moving. I do have a wet bar that can hide a lot of stuff. Problem is the one downstairs is across the room from where the tank would have to be. I'm utilizing an upstairs wetbar now, but I don't think I want this tank upstairs even if it's possible.

Reality is starting to set in...:smokin:

I honestly don't think it's that much more work on an ongoing basis then a 100G but man the setup is 100x the work and a lot more money also.

Well that's encouraging - I couldn't think of how it could be that much more maintenance

Maybe I could live with a 210g until we move eventually - do you happen to know if I can put that upstairs? (In an average house, I mean, I'm not looking for an engineering evaluation or anything)

Just noticed the link to your thread - I'll follow that, it should help me a lot.
PS I thought I had a big skimmer! How tall is that thing?

 

[Bono]

Are you sure the LFS tank is 40,000 gallons cause that is HUGE. I would love to see some pics if you/LFS have any.

 

[bnlimit10]

my 2 cents worth, I dont think that when they built your house, the engineers and or architects thought that you would put a 210g tank in the second floor of the house. I would not do it. not without getting into an engineering project, or completely redoing the support system on your second floor in the area where you would put the tank.

 

[bagedtaco]

yea there is a lfs in houston that has a huge tank. i'm not sure how many gallons, but it is huge.

i can't remember the name of the store.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7208063#post7208063 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scubby
Are you sure the LFS tank is 40,000 gallons cause that is HUGE. I would love to see some pics if you/LFS have any.

Amazingly there aren't many pictures on the website http://www.aquariumworld.net I guess they're busy maintaining the tank. Ophuroid, the brittle star expert, used to go scuba diving in there. They also have a huge saltwater pond that must be 18-20 feet long. Their prices are higher than average - but I know of a LFS (FishRUs) with even higher prices & their display tank is only about 75g

I dont think that when they built your house, the engineers and or architects thought that you would put a 210g tank in the second floor of the house.

bnlimit10, you're probably right, I'm sure they had their priorities totally mixed up

I have my 100g up there right now...what if I had a really long 200g tank made - like mine is 5 feet long, what if it was 10 feet long - all other dimensions the same? I had really wanted more depth for the fish trying to spawn - it used to scare the daylights out of the mandarins when they'd hit the top of the water. But that would be hard to explain to the insurance company when the gameroom collapsed

 

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7206715#post7206715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kwl1763
your upfront setup costs are huge! Easily nearing 10k I would estimate.

I can tell you for my 600gal display (900gal total) setup I am in the process of setting up that the tank (96x48x30), skimmer, and controller were close to that, and that is only 3 pieces of many needed for a complete system...

Unless I missed it I dont see mention of flow... You would need quite a bit for a tank that large...

 

[NexDog]

Yep. You'll need a bigger skimmer, bigger RODI unit, more lights and ballast, more pumps, more streams/powerheads, calcium reactor, kalk reactors, phosphate reactors, more monthly costs in additives....

Then you'll have all that extra space to be filled with more live rock, more coral, more fish. You won't see much change out of 15 grand and then you'll be wanting to spend a grand a month on stocking it and getting all those extra bits and bobs that you keep hearing about and smply have to have because you now have a serious addiction which makes the financial strain of a crack habit look like pocket money.

 

[zemuron114]

10x3x30" is a great size.
Do half the tank with metal halides for the SPS and high light corals and the other half (or 3/4 or 1/4 - w/e you deicde) IN VHO of the same spectrum to blend it. Under this half you cna put the LPS etc that like lower light.
Think big skimmer - deltec would be best choice i think.
calcium reactor (dosing will hurt the wallet)
topoff (lots of light = lots of evaporation)
list goes on, but it is doable. DIY will be very helpful.

even a 8x3x30" will be a great size and less costly.

 

[skriz]

I don't know about maintenance costs yet, but the upfront are huge and seem to be never ending. I am workign on a 750g and it is unbelievable how much i have spent.

i had to get a steel support system built from the basement, through the floor to hold the tank. this is the same stuff they use to make steel commercial buildings.

then you have the tank itself...not cheap!

skimmer, calc reactor, lighting, circulation pumps, tunzes (which i bought to keep DOWN costs).

a serious crack habit would be cheaper! skimping on a couple of halides? if that is your plan, then be happy with the 100g. you'll save yourself a huge headache and expense. trust me!

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7216198#post7216198 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by skriz
I don't know about maintenance costs yet, but the upfront are huge and seem to be never ending. I am workign on a 750g and it is unbelievable how much i have spent.

i had to get a steel support system built from the basement, through the floor to hold the tank. this is the same stuff they use to make steel commercial buildings.

a serious crack habit would be cheaper! skimping on a couple of halides? if that is your plan, then be happy with the 100g. you'll save yourself a huge headache and expense. trust me!

Well I was going to buy the halides- I would be miserable without them... I n-e-e-d the pretty sparkles even if there aren't any corals. ....but just not run them all day on half the tank I don't know how much 800-1200w/day costs but it seems like it might make some difference (IOW turn them on when I'm watching the tank & off when I leave the room)

I'm not going to pretend that it's nothing to spend $10,000 on a system, but my husband seems to mind that less than the monthly electric bill issues, including the fact that he's decided our a/c usage is higher because of the heat from my present 800w lamps. I can find a lot of equipment used, too.

Maybe I need to find out what it actually costs to run these bulbs. Right now our electric bill is $900 in the summer. If it goes up too much more.... :eek1:

I don't see why I'd have to immediately buy a new protein skimmer. Can't I just do that as my bioload increases? Same with kalk?

I know that
more space = buying more stuff to put in the tank :inlove:
I have the addiction & I know what that means :lol2:
But I also know I can only do what I can do

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7211862#post7211862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zemuron114
10x3x30" is a great size.
Do half the tank with metal halides for the SPS and high light corals and the other half (or 3/4 or 1/4 - w/e you deicde) IN VHO of the same spectrum to blend it. Under this half you cna put the LPS etc that like lower light.
Think big skimmer - deltec would be best choice i think.
calcium reactor (dosing will hurt the wallet)
topoff (lots of light = lots of evaporation)
list goes on, but it is doable. DIY will be very helpful.

even a 8x3x30" will be a great size and less costly.

If i can put that upstairs inplace of my present system, I could be quite content for a while.

15 years turtles

That sounds interesting

 

[roni]

$900/month electric bill? That's a little crazy...my 160 with dual 400W MH and A/c running continuously in an apt in dallas was about $100 in the summer.

using LAIII every 3' would probably work fine...i.e. 3 400 Ws would work well. the 3' depth would be a little tough on SPS at the bottom.

Per energy costs, the larger deltecs, the bubbleking, and some of the other recirc nws would probably work well to minimize ongoing costs, though the upfront cost can be high. I'd think about either vortechs/tunzes for water motion or possibly incorporating a surge device. just got back from hawaii...watching the surge on the tanks at the waikikii aquarium was amazing.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7230117#post7230117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by roni
$900/month electric bill? That's a little crazy...my 160 with dual 400W MH and A/c running continuously in an apt in dallas was about $100 in the summer.

using LAIII every 3' would probably work fine...i.e. 3 400 Ws would work well. the 3' depth would be a little tough on SPS at the bottom.

Per energy costs, the larger deltecs, the bubbleking, and some of the other recirc nws would probably work well to minimize ongoing costs, though the upfront cost can be high. I'd think about either vortechs/tunzes for water motion or possibly incorporating a surge device. just got back from hawaii...watching the surge on the tanks at the waikikii aquarium was amazing.

I don't know why our bill is so high, but you can understand my issue of not wanting to add to it.

3 400's only? Right now I'm running 440VHO + 350 total MH = ~800w - that would only be about 400 more w. Is it like they say? It's not about w/g ?

What is LAIII? (Sorry)

My protein skimmer now is a 36" Lifereef. How inferior is that to the Deltecs everybody has recommended?

I would l-o-v-e to have a surge device, but I doubt it's something I'll be able to do. I could look into the wavemaker by Tunze - anybody try that? I want it for my anthias as much as for the corals.

I appreciate all the comments - this preliminary discussion is very helpful. It's not like I can have this conversation with my family or something. Please keep'em coming.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7206715#post7206715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kwl1763
Well I'll just start by saying get out the checkbook. You have to have some serious cash to do the ~700G your talking about.

I keep meaning to thank you for the estimate of the number of gallons, as well as your other comments, of course.

It sounds like I can't have a 700g without moving. But I spoke to an engineer I was showing houses to yesterday (I'm a Realtor) & he said that the 10 ft. long tank along the wall upstairs should be fine. So I guess I'm going to head towards that. He actually happened to know the weight of salt water/g - Not many people, present co. excepted, walk around with that info in their heads...

 

[roni]

i'll echo the other people...i wouldn't put that large a tank on the 2nd floor without significant reinforcement. LA3=lumenarc 3...large reflectors that allow a singe mh to light about a 3x3' square...

you could go with a tunze wavemaker. Lifereefs are fine though imo not that efficient. i'd probably upgrade. you can probably pick up an ASM 4 or 5 for under $500. I haven't personally used them but people seem to like them okay. I'd go with a large needlewheel recirculating skimmer or a beckett (if electricity wasn't an issue).

 

[nyvp]

LAIII are these
http://www.pacificgardensupply.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L3&cat=2
The # 1 rated reflectors based upon Sajay's testing

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've heard of Flame Angels spawning in relatively small (100 gallon) aquariums.
Perhaps flush the thought of a large aquarium and work on the breeding aspect.

 

[Sk8r]

Consider a rectangular tank, one with neither beginning nor end. You could do it in such a way that the fish never have to do a U turn, and are often out of eye-shot of each other---with a lot less than 40,000 gallons. You'd need to reserve the center for equipment and design a supported crawl-through to get to it, but a tank designer could come up with a tank like that, no question. Depth: only what your arm can reach; width, again, can your reach get to it? Length per side, comfortable for the room with, hey, why not, bench seating along the side so you can sit and enjoy it.