I think I have a problem - A little starting advice & some sympathy please

[ricks]

No talk yet on a chiller for a 700 gal tank. You will need at least a 1 hp unit. This will require a 20amp 220 volt. And professional installation. And yes, large tanks take more maintenance, figure 2-3 times what you spend on your 100 gallon. Cost factors can range from 75.00 to 100.00, that's per gallon for a full stocked reef. I know some people will say that's overpriced. I myself think that's about average. One thing is if you try to cut corners in the beginning. You and your livestock will only suffer down the road. As far as power goes I spend about 350.00 to 400.00 on the tank alone per month. And don't forget about back up's for everything. Just to be safe. I have a back up chiller on it's own circuit. Back up pumps, I run 9 on my system. Also have back up ballast's. With a larger tank, you can't just go to the local fish store when something breaks.... Better to be safe than sorry...

Good Luck, this is a great hobby.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7275044#post7275044 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
I've heard of Flame Angels spawning in relatively small (100 gallon) aquariums.
Perhaps flush the thought of a large aquarium and work on the breeding aspect.

You mean growing out the babies? I watched them last night until I finally fell asleep... I don't know if they have ever actually released gametes. If they aren't doing so, it could be because the bicolor anthias interferes when trying to kick them out of his upper water column domain.

Anyway I just never watch them after lights out - not even any good photos, but here's one even though nobody asked

This is the "nuzzling" phase. They like this part a lot.

Anyway thanks for the suggestion - I'll look up what they need for food. Sounds like the fertized eggs could be easily caught since they float?

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7274995#post7274995 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nyvp
LAIII are these
http://www.pacificgardensupply.com/proddetail.asp?prod=L3&cat=2
The # 1 rated reflectors based upon Sajay's testing

Wow - thanks! Those are really nice - Right now I'm using bisected dryer vent tubing. I may be too lazy a reefer to ever get this "big-tank-party" started. I just used that because I was so excited about my halides & it was the quickest way to get them up.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7276832#post7276832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricks
No talk yet on a chiller for a 700 gal tank. You will need at least a 1 hp unit. This will require a 20amp 220 volt. And professional installation. And yes, large tanks take more maintenance, figure 2-3 times what you spend on your 100 gallon. Cost factors can range from 75.00 to 100.00, that's per gallon for a full stocked reef. I know some people will say that's overpriced. I myself think that's about average. One thing is if you try to cut corners in the beginning. You and your livestock will only suffer down the road. As far as power goes I spend about 350.00 to 400.00 on the tank alone per month. And don't forget about back up's for everything. Just to be safe. I have a back up chiller on it's own circuit. Back up pumps, I run 9 on my system. Also have back up ballast's. With a larger tank, you can't just go to the local fish store when something breaks.... Better to be safe than sorry...

Good Luck, this is a great hobby.

Thanks - that's also some stuff I wouldn't have thought of. Especially the if something breaks comment.

Holy cow! Back up chiller?

Honestly I think it's clear at this point that my 700g dream is not going to be a "go"in the near future. My husband would just flat out leave if I were to spend an obvious 300-400 more per mo. on electric. I still appreciate this discussion because the only way this will ever happen is if I understand these issues/problems & develop plans for dealing with them.

It's clear the tank will be downstairs. We don't even have a tv down there. This discussion has made me see that I need to start making that room more"user friendly". That may sound like a "duh" to you guys, but I'd really never considered it.

You all are really helping me. Thanks.

 

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7276832#post7276832 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricks
No talk yet on a chiller for a 700 gal tank. You will need at least a 1 hp unit. This will require a 20amp 220 volt. And professional installation. And yes, large tanks take more maintenance, figure 2-3 times what you spend on your 100 gallon. Cost factors can range from 75.00 to 100.00, that's per gallon for a full stocked reef. I know some people will say that's overpriced. I myself think that's about average. One thing is if you try to cut corners in the beginning. You and your livestock will only suffer down the road. As far as power goes I spend about 350.00 to 400.00 on the tank alone per month. And don't forget about back up's for everything. Just to be safe. I have a back up chiller on it's own circuit. Back up pumps, I run 9 on my system. Also have back up ballast's. With a larger tank, you can't just go to the local fish store when something breaks.... Better to be safe than sorry...

Good Luck, this is a great hobby.

A chiller may not be "require"... It could be recommended as a backup incase something were to happen...

If a system is setup right the first time like you said without cutting corners then the maintenance time will go up minimal...

As for the $75-$100.00 per gal that is WAY too high, not even close to an avg if you ask me... I am in the process of setting up a 600gal display (around 850gal of total water) and if I take $75.00x600gal that would come out to 45K and I can tell you that I am not / will not be close to that once I am complete (fully stocked)... I am not saying that someone couldn't spend 45k on a 600gal display but if done right can be gone for a fraction of that...

There are many diff ways to setup a tank that is the beauty of this hobby... As for running my new tank I have it calculated to about $70-$80.00 a month to run the entire system... I went with 4x 250w, 6-8x Tunzes... Seq Dart... When designing my system I made it "cost effective" to run every month as I didn't want to spend $300-$400.00 a month...

I do agree about having backup equ on hands...

 

[mattydub]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7276874#post7276874 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
You mean growing out the babies? I watched them last night until I finally fell asleep... I don't know if they have ever actually released gametes. If they aren't doing so, it could be because the bicolor anthias interferes when trying to kick them out of his upper water column domain.

Anyway I just never watch them after lights out - not even any good photos, but here's one even though nobody asked

This is the "nuzzling" phase. They like this part a lot.

Anyway thanks for the suggestion - I'll look up what they need for food. Sounds like the fertized eggs could be easily caught since they float?

no offense intended here, but I think you're nuts for wanting a 700+g tank for flames! I've got mine breeding in a 90, and frank in HA did/does it in 55g!!!

For all the costs, time, effort of a 700+ you really should be thinking about some crazy cool stuff that's really going to wow people (or yourself) when they see that size tank. Like interruptus! =)

Not to put a damper on things, but if I had the money to go big (and the spousal approval) I'd be thinking much more impressive than flames.

Just my .02 sorry...everyone else is dead on about room redos for humidity, plumbing, costs, etc. Of course, if you sell a few more houses down there in TX I'm sure you can just pay someone to think of all that for you!

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7277561#post7277561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mattydub
no offense intended here, but I think you're nuts for wanting a 700+g tank for flames! I've got mine breeding in a 90, and frank in HA did/does it in 55g!!!

For all the costs, time, effort of a 700+ you really should be thinking about some crazy cool stuff that's really going to wow people (or yourself) when they see that size tank. Like interruptus! =)

Not to put a damper on things, but if I had the money to go big (and the spousal approval) I'd be thinking much more impressive than flames.

Just my .02 sorry...everyone else is dead on about room redos for humidity, plumbing, costs, etc. Of course, if you sell a few more houses down there in TX I'm sure you can just pay someone to think of all that for you!

Well maybe I've created the wrong impression using the flames as an example. Watching such a small fish as the flame angel utilize a huge amount of that 40,000g tank was what made me feel my 100g was inadequate for my fish in general.

I want to look at my tank and feel peaceful & serene. There was something so wonderful about watching that little flame angel in that giant space. I don't know how to explain it, to me it was "impressive" and there was something truly spectacular about it. Even more so than the various unicorn tangs, huge puffer, heniochus school, etc.

My point of wanting a 700g was never to breed flames. The point is to feel really deep-down-to the-core good about my little piece of the ocean.

Somebody from Houston help me out Go to AW & check it out. I think this may be the first time they put a little fish in there -- just watch the little flame angel. It's so cool. The other fish pace back & forth & don't seem as "happy".

Don't some of you kind of understand?

And besides, I never said a scribbled angel pair might not be kinda nice ...hmmm,, though the interruptus do stay smaller...I've got plenty of time to decide unfortunately...

 

[UrbanSage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7231604#post7231604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
3 400's only? Right now I'm running 440VHO + 350 total MH = ~800w - that would only be about 400 more w. Is it like they say? It's not about w/g?

Yeah, if you take a 10 gallon with sps they will need the same amount of light they would in a 100 gallon tank, they just would not thrive in a nano with a ~100W PC light

If you are looking for a sense of serenity and you live in houston, why dont you just take up scuba diving? Trust me, doing that will put your jitters to rest and be more patient and clearheaded

My Site

 

[Buk_A_neer]

There maybe a way to cut the monthly costs and still achieve the MH shimmer that looks so cool

A member named Iwan ... he has a 210G SPS dominated tank using T5's only

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700454&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

A combination of the MH that you already have supplemented by HO T5's should keep your monthly costs down.

 

[ricks]

Shawn,

A lot depends on what type of system your setting up.. Mine happens to be a SPS BB with lots of turn over and lots of heat from lighting. I myself don't want Fluctuations in temperature and paramators, This wouldn't be good..... I myself and myself only can only sleep easy with back ups upon back ups. After I've spent thousands on lifestock and the time to grow them. I would not want any mishaps taking that away.... Granted you can set up a system with a tank, water and salt. I only know from my experience that good quality equiptment and ease of upkeep will cost you $$$$$. As for 70.00 to 80.00 a month budget. I spend more than that on salt for water changes. By the time you calculate in the costs of additives, charcoal, food, test kits, salt, lighting, replaced equipment, and electricity. My cost run about 500.00 per month. Don't want to forget the small stuff.....

Happy reefing

 

[asnatlas]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7281674#post7281674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricks
Shawn,

A lot depends on what type of system your setting up.. Mine happens to be a SPS BB with lots of turn over and lots of heat from lighting. I myself don't want Fluctuations in temperature and paramators, This wouldn't be good..... I myself and myself only can only sleep easy with back ups upon back ups. After I've spent thousands on lifestock and the time to grow them. I would not want any mishaps taking that away.... Granted you can set up a system with a tank, water and salt. I only know from my experience that good quality equiptment and ease of upkeep will cost you $$$$$. As for 70.00 to 80.00 a month budget. I spend more than that on salt for water changes. By the time you calculate in the costs of additives, charcoal, food, test kits, salt, lighting, replaced equipment, and electricity. My cost run about 500.00 per month. Don't want to forget the small stuff.....

Happy reefing

Yes, your right it depends heavily on the system your setting up and your goal(s) for the aquarium...

I didn't disagree with you in my last post reply about having redundancy in place and replacement(s) on hand in case something happens...

When I was using the term "cost effective" I meant just that... I didn't say "cheap" meaning to skimp and get low quality equ... In my case I am using IceCap ballasts, L3 reflectors, Seq pumps, BK400 Skimmer, A custom 96x48x30 - 3/4" low iron glass tank (which cost $900.00 just for the movers to get it into my basement) along with many other good quality equ and again I am WELL below the 45k (avg) that your saying a system around the size of mine would / should cost...

The $70-$80.00 a month was just for elec usage to run the tank, I was not counting everything else like bulb replacement, WCs, etc... Ruff calculations give me about 165.00 a month over the course of a yr for all maintenance that is needed for my 850gal system...

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Re: I think I have a problem - A little starting advice & some sympathy please

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7205674#post7205674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
Besides cleaning the glass... is a huge tank really that much more maintenance that a 100g?

I would say it is. Significantly.
Why don't you step up to something like a 6 ft. long 220?
To go from 100 to 700 gallons is a big step.
I know of several folks that went too big too quickly and they ruined something that they once enjoyed.

 

[Yak]

Have you considered a 4'x4' tank? My last tank was six foot long, and I always felt bad watching the fish swim back and forth. Swim six foot, stop, turn around, swim six foot, stop, over and over and over. I did the 4x4 and made a rock island in the middle. The island doesn't go all the way to the top of the water, so they can swim over it. It also has tons of caves and passages thru it. The fish can swim nonstop, around and thru the rock. After this I'd never go back to a rectangular tank unles it was huge. You could do a tank like this for a LOT less than a 700 gallon monster. Just another option you may want to think about.....

 

[kwl1763]

Ya it's expensive but $75/gallon is totally crazy!

My 450G starphire setup (750G total) was under 10k including everything but the fish and corals. And I have an aquacontroller, chiller, huge skimmer, waveboxes, lumenarcs, etc. etc so it's pretty advanced technologically speaking. I got some deals on stuff but I don't even know how you would spend more then about $40 per gallon.

I also think $0.50/gl a month or so for manitennace is a fairly solid estimate. That's electricity, replacing bulbs, salt, etc. etc.

 

[ricks]

Yeah, 75.00 a gallon is crazy..... But then maybe I'm a little touched. I also included in that price backups at every turn. For example, 1 HP chiller @ 1,500.00. Iwaki 100 @ 350.00 Backup controller @ 175.00. then backup each for possible failure down the road. And your LFS doesn't carry these items. things only go out at the most inconvenient times. Total price at just the chiller 4,050.00. Lets not forget the electrican, to pull (2) 20amp 220 volt circuits at 750.00. Unless you do your own wiring... My tank and sump ran around 6,000.00. along with 700# of rock at 6.00 per #. This is for large hard to find pieces 50# and above. That's 4,200.00 for rock alone.. add all the coral and fish. I figure around 10,000.00 for livestock alone. With that kind of investment I don't want any equipment failures I can avoid. That alone is around 20,000.00. Granted you can set a system up for much less. But my intent was ease of maintenance and PEACE of mind....

Happy reefing

 

[Angel*Fish]

Re: Re: I think I have a problem - A little starting advice & some sympathy please

Re: Re: I think I have a problem - A little starting advice & some sympathy please

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7285115#post7285115 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
I would say it is. Significantly.
Why don't you step up to something like a 6 ft. long 220?
To go from 100 to 700 gallons is a big step.
I know of several folks that went too big too quickly and they ruined something that they once enjoyed.

What I'm told is that if I want it upstairs, which I do, unless it's the life-changing 700g, the 220 would be a bad idea but that it would be fine to have a 10 ft long 200g tank made. That's kinda weird, I know, but it would help me out as an interim measure.

That said, what I have really wanted for some time now is a tank like yours which can be viewed on all or maybe 3 sides. My rockwork is always free standing for swim space - would be nice to see what's going on back there

I don't want to make the hobby all work & no play - my reason for wanting such a large tank is to have a serene viewing experience.
Though I hesitate to share that

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7287757#post7287757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Yak
Have you considered a 4'x4' tank? My last tank was six foot long, and I always felt bad watching the fish swim back and forth. Swim six foot, stop, turn around, swim six foot, stop, over and over and over. I did the 4x4 and made a rock island in the middle. The island doesn't go all the way to the top of the water, so they can swim over it. It also has tons of caves and passages thru it. The fish can swim nonstop, around and thru the rock. After this I'd never go back to a rectangular tank unles it was huge. You could do a tank like this for a LOT less than a 700 gallon monster. Just another option you may want to think about.....

Yes, I have. I like the idea quite a bit. And you're right on target about what I'm not wanting. That's partly why my concentration is on angels and also why I try to maintain 3 seperate "bommies" in my present tank.

Angels generally are too busy foraging to "pace".
But even in that 40,000g tank many of the tangs & other large fish basically did the "back & forth". Getting from one side to the other was leisurely & took a while though.

 

[UrbanSage]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7290490#post7290490 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Angel*Fish
But even in that 40,000g tank many of the tangs & other large fish basically did the "back & forth". Getting from one side to the other was leisurely & took a while though.

They do the same in nature. Back and forth over the reef.

 

[Angel*Fish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7291818#post7291818 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by UrbanSage
They do the same in nature. Back and forth over the reef.

Thanks, I haven't done any diving at all & don't have the slightest clue how a tang would spend it's day. So you're saying that they basically have a territory on the reef that they "patrol"?

Maybe that's what got me about the flame angel. Even though I've read about how large their territories are, it really never hit home until I saw it for myself in the 40,000g.

 

[pennyguy23]

I don't know about you guys but I am setting up a 360gl and it going to cost over 20k but I also Have the Best of the Best lighting and thats only 55$. I really have gone all out on this tank with almost everthing about it. I don't know what else I could get to get up the 75.00$ a gl mark. And I am building my house around it. So you can do it alot cheapier then that if you want. I just didn't want to have to keep buying new thing because they cheapier ones break.