Illegal Corals
- Thread starter Darroll
- Start date
KDodds
New member
<sigh> I would think that on a board whose purpose it is to share thoughts, information, etc., about the hobby, and whose members, one would think, are dedicated to the hobby, that this discussion would not even need to take place. What does it matter if you can possess an endangered or protected species through a bunch of legal red tape? Why would you want to contribute to the private possession of such an organism? Cetainly most hobbyists do not have the facilities (or legal documentation) to attempt propagation for release/repopulation of wild colonies, right? When a species is placed on a CITES list, or when laws governing its collection, etc. on a local level exist, can you not respect that? Would you not say that only those specimens that should be taken are those intended for research? And only those that are possessed in captivity should be for research and/or reintroduction purposes? Do you not want to help save that species? Or is it better, in your opinion, to possess it? To "own" a specimen of a living being whose species is in peril?
I used to see this all of the time when I was into Herps, people looking for illegal reptile or amphibian species. I could not fathom why they would want to possibly contribute to the species destruction then, and I can not now.
I used to see this all of the time when I was into Herps, people looking for illegal reptile or amphibian species. I could not fathom why they would want to possibly contribute to the species destruction then, and I can not now.
wentreefgirl
New member
I think these are illegal. Looks like they
I think these are illegal. Looks like they
pulled these out of the atlantic.
http://cgi.ebay.com/UNKNOWN-LIVE-CO...ryZ46308QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I think these are illegal. Looks like they
pulled these out of the atlantic.
http://cgi.ebay.com/UNKNOWN-LIVE-CO...ryZ46308QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Nabber86
New member
Law enforcement people want a strong case and need evidence to convict. You have to look at the amount of questionable coral, where it is kept, and and the intent of the keeper (implied or otherwise). Ethics aside, even if you knew you had illegal coral, I seriously doubt a simple hobbiest would ever be bothered.
Now you could do things to draw attention to yourself like boast about it in a puplic medium, take you corals for a spin in a boat off the Florida coast, or take out a classified ad to sell some in the local paper.
Now you could do things to draw attention to yourself like boast about it in a puplic medium, take you corals for a spin in a boat off the Florida coast, or take out a classified ad to sell some in the local paper.
people here in south florida get away with driving around without license plates!!! nevermind insurance. ive heard something like 50% of miami dade county residents dont have insurance. i was talking to a coworker who flipped her car on its side in an accident, three count 'em THREE cop cars passed by before one stopped to help her.
with the ridiculous amount of stuff people get away with down here i highly doubt anyones going to get arrested short of hauling away huge heads of acropora palmata and maybe not even then.
cuban friends have told me the united states actually starts at orlando
with the ridiculous amount of stuff people get away with down here i highly doubt anyones going to get arrested short of hauling away huge heads of acropora palmata and maybe not even then.
cuban friends have told me the united states actually starts at orlando
ficklefins
New member
may not have pulled them out of the atlantic, but they are out of a really dirty tank!
That's not really what I said. I think you would be correct to assume that they were illegally obtained, until proven otherwise, or at the very least until a very good explanation is given. The point is, it is not impossible that someone could have a Carribean coral that was obtained perfectly leagally, but he better be able to prove it.
I don't know exactly where live rock is being cultured or about the distribution of the carribean corals relative to those sites. I would not be at all surprised if some small colonies of restricted corals started showing up on some of the live rock that is being cultured (unless there is truly NO overlap in the distribution of the corals and the live rock culture sites). I do not think there is anything ethically nor anything legally wrong with ending up with corals that way. BUT- you better keep any documentation of the rock and coral source in case it is ever questioned.
Allen
Yeah, I guess all of the studies of all of the dying (and dead) reefs, they're all just WAY off the mark.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
I have atlantic maze brain corals that came in on LR. One of the hardest corals to find...all teal with blue ridges. Its about a year old now and about a 5" globe. No, not some pineapple or something...actual stony atlantic brain coral. I find it hard to believe that all those corals would be such trouble.
All it takes is one person who gets it in on some Tampa Bay LR, frags it, sells it, again, and again...and the proof goes out the window.
All it takes is one person who gets it in on some Tampa Bay LR, frags it, sells it, again, and again...and the proof goes out the window.
dirtyreefer
New member
It does make sense that a person who posesses an illegally harvested coral (hitchiker or not) would need to prove how it got into their tank if questioned.
The same rule applies for stolen goods. I mean I could go out and buy a bunch of stolen stuff from someone, but if the cops came knocking on my door and found the stuff I had, I am just as guilty (even if I play dumb) as the person who sold it to me. That's why they can charge you with posession of stolen goods.
Same should go for a coral as well, because you could just as very well knowingly have bought if illegally from someone else, but you can't simply just play dumb saying that it hitchiked on a rock unless you can prove it. Pretty tough..
The same rule applies for stolen goods. I mean I could go out and buy a bunch of stolen stuff from someone, but if the cops came knocking on my door and found the stuff I had, I am just as guilty (even if I play dumb) as the person who sold it to me. That's why they can charge you with posession of stolen goods.
Same should go for a coral as well, because you could just as very well knowingly have bought if illegally from someone else, but you can't simply just play dumb saying that it hitchiked on a rock unless you can prove it. Pretty tough..
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
It would seem, however, that this would be the realm of law enforcement + something best turned over to them.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
But, everything in your tank could be claimed as a 'hitchhiker' and its not as if you get documented proof of hitchhikers with the rock.
I agree with all you said except "illegally harvested coral (hitchiker or not)". A hitchiker on legally harvested live rock, which includes ONLY cultured rock such as Tampa Bay live rock, is NOT ILLEGALLY HARVESTED. Read the quoted statute earlier in the thread. It is clearly one of the listed esceptions.
Other than that though any talk about taking corals by any illegal means is irresponsible and reflects very badly on the hobby. Carribean reefs are in very bad shape and definitely need the protections they have been given.
Allen
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
And since every coral could be said to be a hitchhiker...as long as you have LR...or better yet, some TB LR, you are off the hook!
