In case I forget all I know, I have theories.
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
your mom musta been reeeeally tiny!
Green Chromis
New member
:fish1: Hi all, great post Paul, I never thought of giving my fish a drink. Do you think it will help with spawning? I give my dogs draft beer, Stella or Becks and they love it, does this count? :fish1:
Paul B
Premium Member
Every time I write that I throw amphipods in my tank by the thousands a few people PM me to ask if I am afraid of introducing paracites. The amphipods are not worried about the paracites so why should I be?
I like natural, I want my tank to look natural and be as natural as it can be, amphipods and bacteria from the sea are natural, bio pellets GAC, ABC, Doh Ra Me is not, those are for all the people that have un-natural tanks or tanks that don't have the correct bacteria or tanks that are to clean, like an operating room. The place where I collect is loaded with fish fry, shrimp, worms, bacteria, horseshoe crab babies, fiddler crabs, rock crabs, Japanese Shore crabs, green crabs and osprey's. The water is filthy, filled with mud, seaweed, Oldsmobile fenders, tires, shoes, Myley Cyrus CDs etc. The fish don't mind at all. But if you go to the Caribbean, Tahiti, California, Arizona or the Persian Gulf and you lift a rock, guess what you find? Nothing, thats what, because the majority of animals like nutrient rich water as that is where their food is. Virtually all of the worlds great fisheries are in the northern seas. Guess why? No, not because the majority of Supermodels come from the north. But because of the currents, most of the nutrients are in the north. You know, the stuff we all try to eliminate from our tanks.
Many people get the horrors when they see detritus as they think that is some type of nutrient sink for phosphorous. Maybe it is as I have no idea. I feel detritus is the end product of denitrification and will cause no harm but it is home to numerous beneficial creatures such as brittle stars, pods and bacteria. I stir my tank once or twice a year to eliminate some detritus as I use a UG filter and after a while it would clog. I never clean it completely because I actually like detritus even though you can't see any of it in my tank. The reverse UG filter will break up any detritus into smaller particles that becomes evenly spaced through out my gravel and is an intricate part of my tank. It allows the reverse UG filter to work. Unlike a regular UG filter that will eventually clog causing dead spots that will in time become a DSB. By "slightly" clogging my reverse UG filter is able to process some nitrate because the water is slowed down. Many people have the wrong idea about UG filters and they were always designed to run fast so they would push detritus up and out. That would not work and I don't want to eliminate all detritus. The sea is made up of detritus and is a good thing in moderation.
Of course these are my ideas and virtually any one who is an "Expert" will disagree with me and that is fine. My tank is older than theirs and my amphipods can beat up their amphipods :facepalm:
I will now get hate mail saying that I should not tell Noobs about these practices as they will crash their tank. Maybe they will but I don't tell anyone to do anything. Start a DSB and let me know how that works out for you in 20 years. I am not here to teach, I am just a bald electrician with a fish tank and a PT Cruiser. My wife has the real car.
I also would not tell any one to start a reverse UG filter or anything else.
Someone once got mad at me because they said I told them to put Clorox in their tank. So the Jerk put Clorox in his tank and killed all his animals. I am sure they had a nice fresh scent but if you are stupid enough to put Clorox in a tank full of fish, you may want to see a doctor. Preferably one who has a fish tank in his office. A fish tank that does not smell of chlorine bleach. :wildone:
I like natural, I want my tank to look natural and be as natural as it can be, amphipods and bacteria from the sea are natural, bio pellets GAC, ABC, Doh Ra Me is not, those are for all the people that have un-natural tanks or tanks that don't have the correct bacteria or tanks that are to clean, like an operating room. The place where I collect is loaded with fish fry, shrimp, worms, bacteria, horseshoe crab babies, fiddler crabs, rock crabs, Japanese Shore crabs, green crabs and osprey's. The water is filthy, filled with mud, seaweed, Oldsmobile fenders, tires, shoes, Myley Cyrus CDs etc. The fish don't mind at all. But if you go to the Caribbean, Tahiti, California, Arizona or the Persian Gulf and you lift a rock, guess what you find? Nothing, thats what, because the majority of animals like nutrient rich water as that is where their food is. Virtually all of the worlds great fisheries are in the northern seas. Guess why? No, not because the majority of Supermodels come from the north. But because of the currents, most of the nutrients are in the north. You know, the stuff we all try to eliminate from our tanks.
Many people get the horrors when they see detritus as they think that is some type of nutrient sink for phosphorous. Maybe it is as I have no idea. I feel detritus is the end product of denitrification and will cause no harm but it is home to numerous beneficial creatures such as brittle stars, pods and bacteria. I stir my tank once or twice a year to eliminate some detritus as I use a UG filter and after a while it would clog. I never clean it completely because I actually like detritus even though you can't see any of it in my tank. The reverse UG filter will break up any detritus into smaller particles that becomes evenly spaced through out my gravel and is an intricate part of my tank. It allows the reverse UG filter to work. Unlike a regular UG filter that will eventually clog causing dead spots that will in time become a DSB. By "slightly" clogging my reverse UG filter is able to process some nitrate because the water is slowed down. Many people have the wrong idea about UG filters and they were always designed to run fast so they would push detritus up and out. That would not work and I don't want to eliminate all detritus. The sea is made up of detritus and is a good thing in moderation.
Of course these are my ideas and virtually any one who is an "Expert" will disagree with me and that is fine. My tank is older than theirs and my amphipods can beat up their amphipods :facepalm:
I will now get hate mail saying that I should not tell Noobs about these practices as they will crash their tank. Maybe they will but I don't tell anyone to do anything. Start a DSB and let me know how that works out for you in 20 years. I am not here to teach, I am just a bald electrician with a fish tank and a PT Cruiser. My wife has the real car.
I also would not tell any one to start a reverse UG filter or anything else.
Someone once got mad at me because they said I told them to put Clorox in their tank. So the Jerk put Clorox in his tank and killed all his animals. I am sure they had a nice fresh scent but if you are stupid enough to put Clorox in a tank full of fish, you may want to see a doctor. Preferably one who has a fish tank in his office. A fish tank that does not smell of chlorine bleach. :wildone:
my mom was 5'1" and sicilian. if your mom was a giant, what does that make my mom?
Spiffy
Cheesy Poofs!
I have never had a QT tank either. Mainly because I am cheap, and because I have confidence that my LFS takes care of the livestock. I have shopping there for over 3 years now. But Paul has a good point. It's like people that try to protect themselves from getting sick by taking everything under the sun, and wearing gloves in the summertime on the subway... But for some odd reason, they are always sneezing, coughing, swabbing their noses.
Me, I have never taken anything to boost my immune system, except for things that the Marine Corps made me take (typhoid, anthrax, small-pox, and the like) and I have never had a problem with getting sick. Even in a house full of sick people, I would never come down with what they had. I have always followed this theory for years, and Paul just proved it.
Great read, btw. Gave me a reason to kick back and read something other than product reviews.
Me, I have never taken anything to boost my immune system, except for things that the Marine Corps made me take (typhoid, anthrax, small-pox, and the like) and I have never had a problem with getting sick. Even in a house full of sick people, I would never come down with what they had. I have always followed this theory for years, and Paul just proved it.
Great read, btw. Gave me a reason to kick back and read something other than product reviews.
Paul B
Premium Member
Probably someone who could beat up my Mom
Seriously!
I also never get sick. I have broken some bones, tore some tendons, dug out some shrapnel but not sick from normal germs. Except of course when I went to Mexico and that was from parasites because I didn't eat live food that week so my immune system must have been down. Now I eat live clams whenever I can. Going out for them tonight, nothing like clams on the half shell on your boat on a beautiful night. If you can convince a Supermodel to come along, it is even better, and they don't eat much at all. One M&M is all you need to fill them up. :dance:
Spiffy
Cheesy Poofs!
Those one-liners kill me every time. :ape:
Paul B
Premium Member
Thats because your Father was a good man and not a Jaboney. There are a lot of words I could use but Jabonie is one I am allowed to use here, the rest I am not, and some of them, I don't even know what they mean.
As to sickness and medications as it relates to fish, this hobby is in the dark ages. We need to turn on the light, it's like human medicine was in the 1800s. At that time we used to quarantine people because we didn't know about immunity. I had an Uncle who got run over by a horse and buggy in lower Manhattan and although his injuries were not to bad, he died of "lock Jaw" which we now call tetanus. We don't die from that any longer because those of us who are not "Jabonies" get a tetna shot every so often that protects us. (Most of us don't get run over by horses and buggies either) Years ago many people died from small cuts and in those days, instead of sitting in front of a computer, they were chopping wood, skinning animals, digging for gold, or doing the macarana. The really old people were still doing the Freddy or The Mashed Potatoes, but lets not dwell on that.
It seems to my simple brain that all we need is a weakened paracite that we could add to food every few weeks to allow the immune system of fish to recognize the paracite and make antibodies for it. If I was 20 years younger I would try to do it myself as it would be a little time consuming but not very hard. That would be a natural method that would force the fish to protect itself from paracites instead of using poisons to cure them. Not getting sick is so much easier and safer than waiting to get sick, then finding some serum to take that will poison the fish almost as much as it poisons the paracite.
It's like cancer drugs. Many people just opt to die rather than go through chemo and radiation as that makes you sicker than the original disease. Some day we will have a cancer vaccine and an ich vaccine. I hope the cancer one comes first because I lost plenty of friends to cancer but not to many from ich.
Ich is also a simple thing to work with as we can see the paracite with a low power microscope and don't need expensive things like electron microscopes, hubble telescopes etc. :dance:
As to sickness and medications as it relates to fish, this hobby is in the dark ages. We need to turn on the light, it's like human medicine was in the 1800s. At that time we used to quarantine people because we didn't know about immunity. I had an Uncle who got run over by a horse and buggy in lower Manhattan and although his injuries were not to bad, he died of "lock Jaw" which we now call tetanus. We don't die from that any longer because those of us who are not "Jabonies" get a tetna shot every so often that protects us. (Most of us don't get run over by horses and buggies either) Years ago many people died from small cuts and in those days, instead of sitting in front of a computer, they were chopping wood, skinning animals, digging for gold, or doing the macarana. The really old people were still doing the Freddy or The Mashed Potatoes, but lets not dwell on that.
It seems to my simple brain that all we need is a weakened paracite that we could add to food every few weeks to allow the immune system of fish to recognize the paracite and make antibodies for it. If I was 20 years younger I would try to do it myself as it would be a little time consuming but not very hard. That would be a natural method that would force the fish to protect itself from paracites instead of using poisons to cure them. Not getting sick is so much easier and safer than waiting to get sick, then finding some serum to take that will poison the fish almost as much as it poisons the paracite.
It's like cancer drugs. Many people just opt to die rather than go through chemo and radiation as that makes you sicker than the original disease. Some day we will have a cancer vaccine and an ich vaccine. I hope the cancer one comes first because I lost plenty of friends to cancer but not to many from ich.
Ich is also a simple thing to work with as we can see the paracite with a low power microscope and don't need expensive things like electron microscopes, hubble telescopes etc. :dance:
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Rybren
Well-known member
Paul, don't leave us hanging...:lol:
Paul B
Premium Member
You shouldn't be reading this stuff as I write it because i keep going back to change something, or get another cup of coffee. I posted that in the middle of a sentence because my computer started doing wierd things so I wanted to get it on here before it disappeared like Jimmy Hoffa or Amelia Airheart never to be heard of again. :uhoh3:
i think jimmy and amelia were recently spotted together doing the macarena and eating raw clams in mexico in the doctor's office waiting room where they went to get some medicine for the montezuma's revenge they picked up because they didn't get their shots.
Paul B
Premium Member
Nina, that was the jist of my next post. But now you let the hermit crab out of the bag so I don't have to go there. Thanks. :wave:
But seriously, to make a serum for ich as I said we could find, or create weakened parasites, "or" really homely parasites so the cute little girl parasites won't want to mate with them and they could not reproduce. I don't know, maybe we could design parasites with big noses or PO (parasite odor) But whatever is done, it seems simple to me as, I am a simple person who just wants to go out on my boat, where I am going now. While I am there I will meet up with my friends. The hermit crabs and other fauna that live in a tide pool. I won't mention the parasite serum or even ugly parasites as many of them live there and may be offended.
Sometimes at my marina they have a new boat show. I love new boat shows because the boats come with Supermodels. Supermodels in swim suits and high heels, because Supermodels feel that high heels are appropriate to wear on a boat. I don't particularly like the little holes the high heels punch in my boat seats but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. :love1:
But seriously, to make a serum for ich as I said we could find, or create weakened parasites, "or" really homely parasites so the cute little girl parasites won't want to mate with them and they could not reproduce. I don't know, maybe we could design parasites with big noses or PO (parasite odor) But whatever is done, it seems simple to me as, I am a simple person who just wants to go out on my boat, where I am going now. While I am there I will meet up with my friends. The hermit crabs and other fauna that live in a tide pool. I won't mention the parasite serum or even ugly parasites as many of them live there and may be offended.
Sometimes at my marina they have a new boat show. I love new boat shows because the boats come with Supermodels. Supermodels in swim suits and high heels, because Supermodels feel that high heels are appropriate to wear on a boat. I don't particularly like the little holes the high heels punch in my boat seats but sometimes you have to do what you have to do. :love1:
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hoooop54
reefin up north
I am completely a newbie, with only being in this hobby for 3 years. But I swear every time life gets busy and I don't have too much time to tinker with my tank, the tank runs just fine. I have gone through a bunch of cycles of algae, diatoms, etc. At first I tried everything, now, I let it run its course and it goes away. It might not be fun when it is happening, but it seems the tank comes out stronger afterwards. Great Post Paul.
Paul B
Premium Member
The mud that those mud snails are living on is the same mud that I "dose" to my reef a few times a year as I feel the tank needs new bacteria because of what I wrote in my opening rant. I realize that many people feel their tanks are sterile like a hospital and wouldn't dream of putting mud in their tank. I like to call those people Sissies. It's mud, it's good for you and them. Mud is what makes the world go around. If God never makes a mistake, why would he make the earth out of mud?
God may have had a reef tank, maybe Noah's flood was an experiment to see if he liked it. And if he did, I bet he dosed it with mud as he knows bacteria are what makes the world go around. Bacteria and Victoria Secret Supermodels. Girls with nice personalities also.
as I like all of them, almost as much as I like mud snails.
Speaking of hospitals, once about 20 years ago I was supposed to work in an operating room in Samaritan hospital in Manhattan and the chief Dr. told me to wait for him outside the operating room. So I was standing there with the white gown, booties and paper hat on looking like Dr Kildare. ( If you are under fifty just put in any doctor's name, maybe Dr. Oz) Anyway I was looking in at the operation and they had this girl on the table and most of her insides were next to her. I am not sure what they were operating on but she didn't seem to have pop eye or ich. So I am standing there in this doctors gown with a tool belt on. I had a hammer, hack saw, pliers, drill, tape, the whole nine yards as I am a construction electrician.
They wheel this girl in on a gurney and put her next to me and she was already kind of wasted on whatever it is they put you to sleep with. I feel this pulling on my gown and I see it is her. She said "Doctor, how long is my surgery and will I be OK?" I told her it was a piece of cake and she would be dancing in the morning. I hope she was fine but If they were going to do to her like that woman they had on the table, I doubt she was dancing for a while. Not the Macarena anyway.
As I read these forums I am amazed with how much I disagree with. I guess I used to think the way a lot of noobs think but I evolved, or maybe just forgot. There are so many practices and worries that I find so silly. Many people worry about the smallest things. How many times do you read that someone found a small tuft of hair algae? I have tufts of the stuff all over the place, that is a good sigh because if your tank can't even grow a little hair algae, something is wrong.
Hair algae, flatworms, paracites, cyano, bristle worms, and politicians are natural, if not always wanted. Most of those things (except the last one) goes away by themselves. Corals dying is also natural. I was just telling my wife that I lost a few corals. But in this case, that is a good thing. They became overshadowed by other corals and died from lack of light. That is a good thing and natural, it's like if Chris Christie was on a beach blanket and Kate Moss was laying behind him having an M&M for lunch. You wouldn't see her at all. :huh:
I also think testing is overrated. Yes I would imagine testing is fine as knowledge is a good thing but it is a problem if you take that knowledge to literally and change stuff because it is not exactly where an expert like Nancy Pelosi says it should be. Especially if you are like many people who change water every few weeks, if that is you, throw out the test kits as your tank will be fine. Grow some algae and find some mud. When I started in the hobby it was written to go out and get some garden soil and dump it in your tank. I did that. I am not sure if the bacteria from the dirt in my backyard will survive in a reef tank, but that dirt is still in there and so far nothing bad happened.
We forget one important thing in this hobby. It is not a means to an end, there is no end or goal, it is the trip, the adventure that makes it interesting. If it gets to much you can start collecting stamps. Now that's excitement.
This hobby is like sailing, the fun is in the actual sailing, not particularly getting anyplace. There is no end goal to sailing as it is about the sailing. You go out, head for a buoy and head back. Reefing is like that, you start out and never finish. Because if you finish, your done and it is no longer fun.
I have no idea where I am going with this but I am taking my wife's friends out on a moonlight cruise tonight. I can be the boy toy, or boy Captain, whatever.
God may have had a reef tank, maybe Noah's flood was an experiment to see if he liked it. And if he did, I bet he dosed it with mud as he knows bacteria are what makes the world go around. Bacteria and Victoria Secret Supermodels. Girls with nice personalities also.
as I like all of them, almost as much as I like mud snails.Speaking of hospitals, once about 20 years ago I was supposed to work in an operating room in Samaritan hospital in Manhattan and the chief Dr. told me to wait for him outside the operating room. So I was standing there with the white gown, booties and paper hat on looking like Dr Kildare. ( If you are under fifty just put in any doctor's name, maybe Dr. Oz) Anyway I was looking in at the operation and they had this girl on the table and most of her insides were next to her. I am not sure what they were operating on but she didn't seem to have pop eye or ich. So I am standing there in this doctors gown with a tool belt on. I had a hammer, hack saw, pliers, drill, tape, the whole nine yards as I am a construction electrician.
They wheel this girl in on a gurney and put her next to me and she was already kind of wasted on whatever it is they put you to sleep with. I feel this pulling on my gown and I see it is her. She said "Doctor, how long is my surgery and will I be OK?" I told her it was a piece of cake and she would be dancing in the morning. I hope she was fine but If they were going to do to her like that woman they had on the table, I doubt she was dancing for a while. Not the Macarena anyway.
As I read these forums I am amazed with how much I disagree with. I guess I used to think the way a lot of noobs think but I evolved, or maybe just forgot. There are so many practices and worries that I find so silly. Many people worry about the smallest things. How many times do you read that someone found a small tuft of hair algae? I have tufts of the stuff all over the place, that is a good sigh because if your tank can't even grow a little hair algae, something is wrong.
Hair algae, flatworms, paracites, cyano, bristle worms, and politicians are natural, if not always wanted. Most of those things (except the last one) goes away by themselves. Corals dying is also natural. I was just telling my wife that I lost a few corals. But in this case, that is a good thing. They became overshadowed by other corals and died from lack of light. That is a good thing and natural, it's like if Chris Christie was on a beach blanket and Kate Moss was laying behind him having an M&M for lunch. You wouldn't see her at all. :huh:
I also think testing is overrated. Yes I would imagine testing is fine as knowledge is a good thing but it is a problem if you take that knowledge to literally and change stuff because it is not exactly where an expert like Nancy Pelosi says it should be. Especially if you are like many people who change water every few weeks, if that is you, throw out the test kits as your tank will be fine. Grow some algae and find some mud. When I started in the hobby it was written to go out and get some garden soil and dump it in your tank. I did that. I am not sure if the bacteria from the dirt in my backyard will survive in a reef tank, but that dirt is still in there and so far nothing bad happened.
We forget one important thing in this hobby. It is not a means to an end, there is no end or goal, it is the trip, the adventure that makes it interesting. If it gets to much you can start collecting stamps. Now that's excitement.
This hobby is like sailing, the fun is in the actual sailing, not particularly getting anyplace. There is no end goal to sailing as it is about the sailing. You go out, head for a buoy and head back. Reefing is like that, you start out and never finish. Because if you finish, your done and it is no longer fun.
I have no idea where I am going with this but I am taking my wife's friends out on a moonlight cruise tonight. I can be the boy toy, or boy Captain, whatever.
Lol. You threw in a Chris Christie joke in here. Poor fella but he is one who can take it I'd wager.
A lot of people forget that there is a food chain and circle of life. Our tanks are no different. While not ideal I'm sure and everyone wants to trim, move, prune, and do whatever else is necessary so coral A doesn't reach out and sting coral B. Yet in the wild things grow or move to eat or get comfortable. I try and place accordingly but sometimes they just do their own thing and I let them sort it out. The whole time spooling a bit of "Tree" by Rush in the back ground.
Pretty much sums it up in my opinion.
A lot of people forget that there is a food chain and circle of life. Our tanks are no different. While not ideal I'm sure and everyone wants to trim, move, prune, and do whatever else is necessary so coral A doesn't reach out and sting coral B. Yet in the wild things grow or move to eat or get comfortable. I try and place accordingly but sometimes they just do their own thing and I let them sort it out. The whole time spooling a bit of "Tree" by Rush in the back ground.
Pretty much sums it up in my opinion.
