Interesting attack on Randy's two part

[Buzz1329]

Ugh. Claude has a beautiful baby, but to trot him or her out as a response to criticism of his product was perhaps the most revolting experience I have had on RC.

 

[SushiGirl]

Apparently the subject of the thread is lost here.

It's a 2 year old thread...

 

[Crit21]

I guess the thread title located at the top of the page is too small to read after two years.

I'd like to see how the Balling technique has morphed since then. Maybe Randy can provide an update?

 

[HV1990]

intresting.

 

[Plato]

Hi all I have to post this and I do find this funny that this vender did not post this here but, I will quote exactly what he stated and hopefully find you feed back, now he is refering to diy salt but this is also concerning the two part, maybe even Randy can comment.

"In recent months we have had a massive surge in people taking up the balling method in replacement for the old pony the clacium reactor, great everyone seeing the benefits of this European legend.

BUT, it has come to our attention as it did initially in Europe that users when they run out of salt start to look for what they feel is a cheaper alternative

Now I know we all like to save a buck or two, but at the risk of a large investment in the reef system? So tonight I thought I would spend some time on my soap box and highlight what you are REALLY adding.

Lets start with the main culprit Baking Soda, Baking soda is NOT for reef tanks, great for the kitchen but lets keep it there shall we why? Read on.

There are some forums hyping the use of DIY products to save some cash, but they dont tell you anything about the chemistry of what you are adding.

When baking soda is pure it is Sodium bicarbonate but Baking soda does not stay pure for long. In its preocessing for kitchen use the mill adds a BINDING AGENT

OOOOOO now its getting scary isnt it. So what you adding right now to your tank? Baking soda, care to read on?

The binding agent in question is generally aluminium silicate at best and at worst all sorts of other silicates.

Fancy some algea by chance?

In this this modern day world we all seem to be sucked into the concept of buy cheap expect quality and that you wil actually get quality, Oh if only life was that easy So my point is if you are going to follow the Fauna Marin balling method and get the results that it can really achieve, PLEASE use fauna marin salts I have lots of support cases on file, and originally I was not awake to what was going on, complaints of algea where quite common, I then starting asking the question, what salts are you using? ERRRRR

Fauna Marin balling salts are yes more expensive, why? They are designed for the specific use you are using them for, they have been expensively lab tested for impurities and have the added minor trace mineral elements you will not find in any other salt, these help create a stable system.
"

Here is the full link where he shows a bucket to the effect and little more to his thoughts please check it out

http://canreef.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=57840

There is just something very attractive about buying a 50lb bag of baking soda at you local pool supply store for 14$:bounce1:

 

[Crit21]

No need to copy the entire, long post.
I just get the big bag at Sam's Club. It lasts a year in my big SPS tank and I don't need to worry where to store it. I also get the 5 gallon bucket of Excel calcium chloride pellets at Sam's for $18. It's enough to last 7 years in my tank, and is 20% more pure than the CaCl Randy uses, so I use less. I've used it for several years with great success.

 

[HighlandReefer]

I guess the thread title located at the top of the page is too small to read after two years.

I'd like to see how the Balling technique has morphed since then. Maybe Randy can provide an update?

I don't believe the chemical ingredients used in the Balling method or sold for this method have changed, at least I have not heard anthing about this. They don't state the chemical purity used for the balling products, but do state that their chemicals are so pure (lacking any contaminates such as your heavy metals) that you need to add them back in. Personally I would love to see a qualified lab test report to prove this, since chemicals sold at a very high purity are very expensive & would drive up the costs greatly (IMHO more than they charge for these products). This has been brought up in prior threads many times, but we have yet to see the proof of the chemical purity of these products. Do you really need to add micro-nutrents back as is stated in the Balling Method?

Really, there is no further use to disscuss this issue, unless the qualified lab reports are presented for the ingredients and results of the micro-nutrients in hobbyists' tanks that use the Balling Method products.

 

[Crit21]

I agree that a lot of it is salesmanship. Keep in mind that most CaCl sold to hobbyists comes from the same kind of underground slurry wells where ice melt originates. The alk powder sold commercially is baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) that's been baked to drive off carbon dioxide until it becomes sodium carbonate, and repackaged. Aragonite sand is from the same place they used to get it for Southdown. When they tell you their product is better, they're often lying.

 

[Crit21]

Duplicate post

 

[HighlandReefer]

Well stated Crit21. :thumbsup:

 

[Crit21]

Now if we could find a cheap source of ocean salt...

 

[Crit21]

Not that I'm accusing any sponsors, mind you.

 

[HighlandReefer]

If you are able to get a group buy in a local club going. Getting the salt mixes by the pallet load is the cheapest and can save everyone money pooling together.

 

[Crit21]

I know. I want the real deal though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You'd have to use actual wet seawater, not dried seawater as you cannot reconstitute dried seawater and get back the same thing. Some compounds will precipitate and not redissolve (like calcium carbonate).

 

[Crit21]

Fortunately, you came up with the 2-part solution for this very situation!

 

[Crit21]

Randy, is it possible to make DIY reef salt in bulk and save money, or are we stuck with the commercial mixes?

 

[coralreefdoc]

Possible, yes. Far from economical.

Randy, please do still elaborate on this topic, as well as the elements/solutions needed, for everyones knowledge ...

 

[Crit21]

I realize anything is possible. From a quick Google search, pure NaCl is $3 a pound when you buy 350#. That's not economical at all.

 

[Crit21]

I'd rather learn how to make an inexpensive additive or set of additives to replace what's consumed in the reef aquarium.