Interesting attack on Randy's two part

Claude I know your feeds are under strict control and Germany's standards are gold when it comes to this. It's just the supplements.

I do understand just how of a double edged sword writing all ingredients on a label it. The R&D side sure hurts when some one knocks you off and you've spent lots of time, money and energy doing something new.

:lol: @ the last paragraph. No I think some go well over board in the Dept.

FWIW I have the up most respect for you and your products. What you're doing right now with your coral feeds is out of this world :D

I was just ranting about not having equal standards, at least here in the US, in regards to what manufacturers have to cite on their label. If I simply drop all mention of "feeds" and "foods" from the label, it would be considered a supplement and not held to the high standard that feeds are.
 
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I suspect that you are incorrect in your accusation. Randy did not claim to invent a new method, he simply put together a recipe to make 2 part out of inexpensive and available ingredients.
 
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While I have no reason to question the quality of the balling light salt, I don't see much benefit to it other than the accounting for chloride which is largely insignificant given nsw levels. This too can be avoided with kalk dosing in lieu of 2 part.

I think the whole trace element argument is dubious.Dami, Iodine is not a trace element btw but a minor element.. Some dose it subject to at least high end testing in cases where gorgonians are grown and/ or heavy gac use is in play. Even if the " balling" trace element solution is based on coral skeletal analysis I wonder what corals were used and where they came from and what levels of metals they were exposed to.. Regardless, corals sink metals in those structures, strontium being a notable one. Is there evidence to suggest that they do so for their benefit; or do they simply rid themselves of an element that may harm them by burying it in skeletal mass?

In my experience regular water changes with a standard salt mix provides all the trace elements needed for my system as evidenced by longterm coral health and color.

I don't think anyone is attacking anyone other than some inaccurate personalized shots at Randy and Reef Central folks in general.. Discussion and disagreement are useful ways to learn and challenges to commercial products are especially useful in my decision process.

Claude I had the pleasure of living in your country for a couple of years , in what was then West Berlin during the late 60s. Glad that wall is gone.

Dami. during my stay in Europe, even though I learned German while there, I must say it was a pleasure to visit England particularly to read , hear and speak English. It was hard to cross a street though. I kept looking the wrong way for traffic. On the way to the theater one evening. I saw a lady tourist from Germany struck and injured by a vehicle as she ventured out into a London crosswalk after looking the wrong way.
 
While I have no reason to question the quality of the balling light salt, I don't see much benefit to it other than the accounting for chloride which is largely insignificant given nsw levels. This too can be avoided with kalk dosing in lieu of 2 part.

I think the whole trace element argument is dubious.Dami, Iodine is not a trace element btw but a minor element.. Some dose it subject to at least high end testing in cases where gorgonians are grown and/ or heavy gac use is in play. Even if the " balling" trace element solution is based on coral skeletal analysis I wonder what corals were used and where they came from and what levels of metals they were exposed to.. Regardless, corals sink metals in those structures, strontium being a notable one. Is there evidence to suggest that they do so for their benefit; or do they simply rid themselves of an element that may harm them by burying it in skeletal mass?

In my experience regular water changes with a standard salt mix provides all the trace elements needed for my system as evidenced by longterm coral health and color.

I don't think anyone is attacking anyone other than some inaccurate personalized shots at Randy and Reef Central folks in general.. Discussion and disagreement are useful ways to learn and challenges to commercial products are especially useful in my decision process.

Claude I had the pleasure of living in your country for a couple of years , in what was then West Berlin during the late 60s. Glad that wall is gone.

Dami. during my stay in Europe, even though I learned German while there, I must say it was a pleasure to visit England particularly to read , hear and speak English. It was hard to cross a street though. I kept looking the wrong way for traffic. On the way to the theater one evening. I saw a lady tourist from Germany struck and injured by a vehicle as she ventured out into a London crosswalk after looking the wrong way.
 
Okay, I've deleted one post and edited another. Let's keep the personal attacks out of the thread.

I've seen a lot of pictures of very beautiful systems that use the Balling method. I think everyone who has posted here has said that Balling tanks can be very beautiful. Some of us just question the need for the trace element solution. I'm not sure why this issue has become so emotional for some people, but that's not productive.

I agree that there are a lot of tanks that do extremely well with trace element supplements. There are also lots of tanks that do very well without them. That information does <b>not</b> constitute a proof that the trace elements are useless. Similarly, maybe the beautiful tanks that don't get trace elements would be even better with them. Still, all in all, given the large array of sources for trace elements, I'm skeptical about the need for paying money to add more. "Skeptical" is as far as I'm willing to go, personally.
 
Hi Jon

Yes i agree , today it is important to be sceptical and it is correct ho re ask the things , after so long time i did not take the things personaly :-)
Iám happy that i have today the possibility to discuss and learn also with all my friends here in RC
20 years ago we did not have the possbility :-)
But i hope you understand that for a company it is sometime very frustrated that you have no chance--- the people make your products bad before they use it or you have the chance to talk about. :-)
I learn very hard english the last year to have a possibility to talk and discuss here and iám really very happy to be here in RC

in my personal meaning Your view is also correct , the question here ist which technics and which lights and how is the animalload in the tank to get an answer of this question.

i calculate my systems based on modern reefs with low nutrition good skimming and based on 8 standard reef marine salts one of them based USA production.

The balling light elements are not elements which are for outstanding coloration or special points like in some other systems , they contain not only trace elements , they contain all that elements which we think the corals need to grow. and which i need to stabilize the system on a chemical view.
That is the different to all other systems that i did not use only 1 salt which included elements which i did not want or which has a bad technical quality. That is the reason why i sell ready salt mixes where the elements are only 1 part

Like TMC said maybe some elements will bo only added in and has maybe not
a need for the coral direct , but i see the role of the elements on another way as sample a little bit like iron for the human blood production.


For me is important that the kind of salts are in a very high quality and purity in my opinion only with good quality you have a chance for a good reef tank.


rgds claude
 
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C. Schuhmacher said:
But i hope you understand that for a company it is sometime very frustrated that you have no chance--- the people make your products bad before they use it or you have the chance to talk about. :-)

I learn very hard english the last year to have a possibility to talk and discuss here and iám really very happy to be here in RC
Click to expand...

Another double edge sword. You want people to talk about the product, but you also want them to talk from a point of experience rather then just repeating something they head :) How you interact with your customers tells a lot about the company IMO and you are definitely down in the trenches which is a good thing :)

Your English is good enough for me to understand Claude :) I've read worse from people who's first language is English :lol:
 
It is not me Gresh, it is my key board and when it is not my keyboard it is forums looking to make me look bad. They must have a Auto-Boom = "Boom's here, so lets make Boom's English look bad and add typo errors. This way we can pick on him" :lol:
 
Boomer said:
It is not me Gresh, it is my key board and when it is not my keyboard it is forums looking to make me look bad. They must have a Auto-Boom = "Boom's here, so lets make Boom's English look bad and add typo errors. This way we can pick on him" :lol:
Click to expand...
Not sure why anyone would be dumb enough to mess with someone whose interests include "Explosives Technology" :blown:
 
Scott did you miss this part :D


Boomer
Bomb Technician (EOD)
teamrc.gif
 
sjm817 said:
Not sure why anyone would be dumb enough to mess with someone whose interests include "Explosives Technology" :blown:
Click to expand...

A lot of kids learn the hard way that sticking a knife into a wall socket ends up hurting you and is no fun :lol: I figure it's along that line :D
 
The moral of the story in this thread:

Never mistakenly use baking powder instead of baking soda. They are two different products. We use baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in reef tanks to increase alkalinity. Sometimes products are mixed up in translation from one language to another, like baking soad and baking powder. ;)
 
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