I guess your not counting the estimated 2500 gigabarrels that could be recovered from US oil shale deposits because technically they wouldn't be drilling for that. Maybe the slogan should be "Mine Now Pay Less". Or maybe "Drill Now so OPEC will kill any US competition by increasing production so the price of oil will plumet just like they did during the 1970's oil crisis".
Interesting Greener Is Not Better
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I guess your not counting the estimated 2500 gigabarrels that could be recovered from US oil shale deposits because technically they wouldn't be drilling for that. Maybe the slogan should be "Mine Now Pay Less". Or maybe "Drill Now so OPEC will kill any US competition by increasing production so the price of oil will plumet just like they did during the 1970's oil crisis".
buck50bmg
In Memoriam
I try reading facts and not propaganda/ fiction........Heck must be good....I can get it for 74 cents on Amazon.... :rollface:
Since when do we allow environmentalists to dictate energy policy. Its because of them, that we are in the situation we are in now.
This is the USA. Lets take a nation wide vote and see what the people have to say.....wait..... that would mean we have to use that constitution we have in that break in case of emergency, glass case in DC.
Let the people vote.....all of them ( "in all 58 states".............silly boy) with paper ballots.....
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HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
I figured someone would bring that up. Luckily for Big Oil, the skyrocketing ppb has just made the extraction of shale, oil sands, heavy crude, etc, profitable. Mission accomplished. And you've got the 70's oil crisis backwards; OPEC restricted oil shipments, they didn't flood the market, although they can do that too. In fact, it doesn't even take OPEC to crush a "rogue" nation that pumps above quota, it just takes Saudi Arabia.
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
Seriously, just from this post I guarantee you would like that book. Even if you don't agree with it (and you will), it's entertaining. The situation we are in now is NOT because of environmentalism, it's because of greed.
bbehring
New member
Facts are facts. We have enough oil resources/reserves in our own country to sustain the US for 60 years +. While this is going, we can be working on clean technologies developed by the private sector. My parents own oil wells in Oaklahoma that are currently running only at 1/16tg their capacity. This is more the norm across Tx. and Ok. So we could simply start by allowing the existing wells to increase their capacity to 80% to 100%. But none of this can be done due to regs and environmental impact issues and restrictions. These restrictions need to be lifted now so we can pump more, explore, drill, and refine. We need refineries built now! necular power plans built now! All these systems will create millions of jobs. It's always funny how I hear the argument that it will take 10 years and only reduce the cost of gas by pennies. The US has the clean technologies and inginuity to bring it to market quicker, efficiently, and impact the global markets with in just a few years. Also, I don't know about you, but I would want to live a life like the one in the bus photo above. What a lously, filthy, life. My life is just fine with my great job, a nice house, a wonderful stay-at-home wife, a son, a daughter, 2 pooches, a house at the river with a boat, jst ski and an electric golf cart, (and my reef tank) thank you very much. Any infringement on or against this I will work to protect. If you all want to throw it all away and go join some live-on-the-street hippee gang of rejects, be my guest.
So I'd ask again, drill and mine the shale now and pay less in 5 to 10 years or have no work and a crippled economy because we are beholden to the middle east. If we don't work become energy self sufficient we will be at war with China in 10 years over oil!
So I'd ask again, drill and mine the shale now and pay less in 5 to 10 years or have no work and a crippled economy because we are beholden to the middle east. If we don't work become energy self sufficient we will be at war with China in 10 years over oil!
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
:lol: You're family is in the oil business? Shocking! Oil execs don't want more refineries, that would reduce profits because of excess capacity internal memos . And why are you so threatened by clean energy? You seem to have this fear that your life is in jeopardy if oil isn't the main energy source. Must have something to do with your family owning oil wells. Developing green tech creates jobs too you know
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HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
Your parent's wells are hardly the exception. There are wells all over the US that aren't being pumped, they're just sitting there. Why? Because the Middle East has nice, light crude just sitting near the surface. It's very cheap to pump and refine which makes it very profitable. The oil pumped in the US is not sold to the US (although it could be with some legislation), it is sold on the global market along with the OPEC nations. Why would oil companies mess with hard to extract US oil when they're making money hand over fist from the Middle East? Big Oil doesn't give a flying turd about you, your family, or the Constitution. It's time we realize that.
chrissreef
New member
As Hippiesmell mentioned - greed is your driver. You aren't willing to sacrifice anything if it will inconvenience you (even for your own children's future or health of the land/sea they will live on). What a terrible role model/trait to have... Heck you probably wouldn't be willing to work in the coal mines, nuclear power plants, oil rigs/refineries or let your children do so. It's not comfy like your job and only suitable for "others" to work at.
This sounds like a smokers mentality - they should be able to smoke "anywhere" - at the expense of non-smokers. Maybe someone could smoke in your house and you can see how intrusive complete freedom can be.
edit: or a poor social security system mentality - "let the kids pay for my lack of responsibility - I must protect my complete freedoms and livelihood, no sacrifices, and make them pay or figure out how to fix the impact of my problems"
Spoken from someone who's family owns wells - too funny! Oh, the a few sentances before you claimed it would take less than 5 yrs and now you admit it doesn't? I also see you don't refute domestic drilling as a solution to reducing gas prices more than just a few pennies.
So... if I follow your guidance, we invest millions of dollars in new refineries and I save $0.10-$0.25 a gallon 5-10 yrs from now? Oh, I also get a cool nuclear power plant near my home and oil rigs off the beach I visit (in the distance)? Wonderful! sign me up!
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HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
I just want to be clear, I'm not calling anyone here greedy, because I know next to nothing about any of you. I am calling Big Oil and essentially every other corporation greedy. That's their nature, to make money. The thing that needs to be realized is that corporations are not benevolent protectors of humanity. They require institutions to keep an eye on them, or else they will do what they were made to do, create profit, often at the expense of humanity at large. That doesn't mean corporate heads are all evil and want to do harm, quite the contrary. The problem is the system itself. It's too easy for industry leaders to just go with the flow and think short term, to think about the next quarter, because that's where all the attention is in business. What needs to happen is that shareholders need to organize and tell the corporate heads to think long term. I don't see that happening though, because most investors want the greatest possible return on their investment. The other option is government regulation. It doesn't need to be micromanaged either, there simply have to be goals created for industry to attain. The economy will still be able to reach those goals based on free market principles.
Yes they restricted oil production which caused the crisis. By the early 80's other countries had increased production and surpassed OPEC so they increased production the killed the price. Same thing will happen this time. If oil prices remain this high or higher I can guarantee you that by the mid term elections in 2010 every politician (left & right) will be chanting "Drill Now Pay Less".
chrissreef
New member
Well said Hippiesmell...
"goals created for industry to attain." - tax incentives usually cheer corporations up =) I like those better than penalties.
I kind of took your "greed" comment and applied it to bbehring(maybe unfairly) - but he did kind of line himself up for it by mentioning his relationship with oil and doing what it takes to protect his excessive standard of living.
more oil rigs to me is like 1 more hit for a crack addict... it won't really help with the addiction and doesn't create or incentivise alternative solutions. Just 1 more hit… just 1 more…
"goals created for industry to attain." - tax incentives usually cheer corporations up =) I like those better than penalties.
I kind of took your "greed" comment and applied it to bbehring(maybe unfairly) - but he did kind of line himself up for it by mentioning his relationship with oil and doing what it takes to protect his excessive standard of living.
more oil rigs to me is like 1 more hit for a crack addict... it won't really help with the addiction and doesn't create or incentivise alternative solutions. Just 1 more hit… just 1 more…
buck50bmg
In Memoriam
I have worked in coal mines and now Nuclear power plants. Both are safer than crossing the street or taking the "green" stance, like you are talking about.
This is kinda like the 50's, everyone thought we would be flying around in cars to and from work and we would be able to just talk to our house to get house work done. Well that didn't happen....... and the green weenie thing isn't going to happen either.....sorry.
But one thing that did happen was the atomic area. We have a great technology and we are hamstrung by people who don't have a clue about it. TMI was a human error, not equipment. There are procedures in place that would amaze you in how redundant and safe these plants are. I would live next to the containment building with my family and wouldn't think twice about safety. In fact its a heck of a lot more safe there than most other places......
chrissreef
New member
Buck50 - though I disagree with you on many things... at least you stay consistent. I was referring to bbehring's comments which aren't.
"There are procedures in place that would amaze you in how redundant and safe these plants are."
yup, I agree... but time after time human engineering has failed - even redundant ones. The funniest one lately was when NYC blacked out - funny huh? =)
"Oh yea, you probably believe in taxing the wealthy more......huh? That my friend will be the beginning of the end....."
please share, maybe I'll get tickled. it all depends on cash flow, the parties involved and a few other things... so it doesn't really matter who's getting taxed in my opinion. though I'd prefer rich right now because I don't consider myself "rich" =P
"There are procedures in place that would amaze you in how redundant and safe these plants are."
yup, I agree... but time after time human engineering has failed - even redundant ones. The funniest one lately was when NYC blacked out - funny huh? =)
"Oh yea, you probably believe in taxing the wealthy more......huh? That my friend will be the beginning of the end....."
please share, maybe I'll get tickled. it all depends on cash flow, the parties involved and a few other things... so it doesn't really matter who's getting taxed in my opinion. though I'd prefer rich right now because I don't consider myself "rich" =P
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HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
HippieSmell
Occupy Reef Central
Ummm, the middle class lasted for quite a bit longer than 4 years. I also find it funny that your response to the sudden appearance of the middle class is "Carter sucks!". The bottom line is there is gulf between the rich and the rest of us that is widening every year under these insane policies. Wake up and realize you're being duped.
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chrissreef
New member
I don't know much about the Carter years... but the income disparities just seem unhealthy as a whole right now. Should there be inequalities? yes... by how many and how great? I don't know, I'm not an economist...
I do think technologiess/globilization has contributed - but I also think the opposite systems by our governing bodies have contributed. I think both work well independently, but the philosophies behind both right now are only half implemention (because it's a tug/war) which has puts us in the mess we have right now. We just need to pick one and go all the way with it i think =)
I don't know the actual number, but isn't it like the top 5% get 90%+ of the income? (kind of like how the US has a small % of the world population, yet consumes 25% of energy)
I work for an engineering defense firm that pays engineers quite well... and every engineer under 33 that I know is feeling pain right now. Can they make due? yes, but their debts and obsticals are greater than past generations according to many. I couldn't even imagine what people that make less are complaining about right now? food? getting to work? Over the last 6 months I worked part time at a lfs for fun on Sundays. At $10 an hr, after gas/smoothie(breakfast)/lunch/taxes - I basically made $20 a day. Thank goodness it's not my fulltime job - couldn't imaging paying mortgage/rent/for children/education/insurance (health/auto) on that salary. I have no idea how the other employees do it. (i don't think any have health insurance =(
Now, I wonder what the economy and "middle class" incomes would be if middle class % were like that provided in the link Hippie posted. I bet my income would be pretty good =)
I do think technologiess/globilization has contributed - but I also think the opposite systems by our governing bodies have contributed. I think both work well independently, but the philosophies behind both right now are only half implemention (because it's a tug/war) which has puts us in the mess we have right now. We just need to pick one and go all the way with it i think =)
I don't know the actual number, but isn't it like the top 5% get 90%+ of the income? (kind of like how the US has a small % of the world population, yet consumes 25% of energy)
I work for an engineering defense firm that pays engineers quite well... and every engineer under 33 that I know is feeling pain right now. Can they make due? yes, but their debts and obsticals are greater than past generations according to many. I couldn't even imagine what people that make less are complaining about right now? food? getting to work? Over the last 6 months I worked part time at a lfs for fun on Sundays. At $10 an hr, after gas/smoothie(breakfast)/lunch/taxes - I basically made $20 a day. Thank goodness it's not my fulltime job - couldn't imaging paying mortgage/rent/for children/education/insurance (health/auto) on that salary. I have no idea how the other employees do it. (i don't think any have health insurance =(
Now, I wonder what the economy and "middle class" incomes would be if middle class % were like that provided in the link Hippie posted. I bet my income would be pretty good =)
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Paul_PSU
In Memoriam
"but the income disparities just seem unhealthy as a whole right now. Should there be inequalities? yes... by how many and how great? I don't know, I'm not an economist... "
Exactly and we are not Marxists. The day the Gov't dictates how much we can make is the day we need to take up arms and take control back. They are trying to do it now. They want the Wind fall tax on the oil companies and when they get that they will then tell the major corporations or the Engineering firm you work for how much profit they can make.
I believe that most of gaps that exist are due to choices that the people have made over their life. You want more money, work harder and smarter. If you don't want to further your education or skills then you better get accustom to making $10 an hour. Then again some jobs are not meant to be life long jobs to raise a family on.
why don't you look up the % of taxes that the top 5% pays to the government also.
Exactly and we are not Marxists. The day the Gov't dictates how much we can make is the day we need to take up arms and take control back. They are trying to do it now. They want the Wind fall tax on the oil companies and when they get that they will then tell the major corporations or the Engineering firm you work for how much profit they can make.
I believe that most of gaps that exist are due to choices that the people have made over their life. You want more money, work harder and smarter. If you don't want to further your education or skills then you better get accustom to making $10 an hour. Then again some jobs are not meant to be life long jobs to raise a family on.
why don't you look up the % of taxes that the top 5% pays to the government also.
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