Is it just me ?

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No disrespect taken at all here, Just saying how its really changed and if people want the prices to drop we gotta stop supporting these online vendors. And instead as you mentioned other reefers

I agree, no disrespect taken. It's great that we can agree to disagree and still conduct ourselves as mature men and women.

There have been dozens of thread posted on this topic because people are tired and fed up with these sky high prices that many people are getting rich off of. It is pure unadulterated greed and price gouging and the misleading statements of "oh it's just supply and demand or a phase, trend of fad", when it's neither. It's "pimpin", a way to make a lot of money by chopping off every single polyp that grows and attaching it to a round plug, giving it a cute name, taking macro pic with a digital camera, shopping the picture at times, giving it a label Limited Edition, rare, hard to find, seldom seen, just released, and new on the scene, LOL, this is all marketing 101 to get you hyped to spend your hard earn money on a polyp which might die tomorrow and most often does.

It's "pimpin 10"1 http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1304962&highlight=pimpin

These types of threads aren't bringing the hobby down, people leaving the hobby because of greedy price gougers is what's bringing the hobby down. No one can afford to buy enough zoas to fill a 100 gallon tank with 2 polyps at a time purchases for anything with any great coloration.

To say, "If you dont like it get out there and trade or sell for reasonable prices so people dont have to pay retailers so much", well, we shouldn't have to. I didn't create this problem. The people who are against these high prices aren't responsible for these high prices. It's the sellers and the buyers, so they should take the lead. I personally have given away tons of corals etc, but it didn't cause any prices to drop. I have sold zoa and paly frags all over the country back in the day for $ 15 to $ 25 for small to large frags loaded with every color imaginable, but it didn't stop prices from going through the roof. See links below.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208268&highlight=mucho

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1402134&highlight=mucho

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1308623&highlight=mucho

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1273953&highlight=mucho


To me, reefing is about helping, giving back, sharing and learning. I have given away dozens of very nice colorful zoas and palys away on other sights which allowed me to, that's reefing. I have sold tons of cheap colorful zoa and paly frags. I gave away Chaetamorpha to help someone else out who maybe couldn't afford to pay for it, that's reefing. Helping someone who has tank issues even if it means getting in my car and driving to their house, that's reefing. Answering the same questions over and over again on the same topic, that's reefing. For some, reefing is only about making money, that's not REEFING, that's RETAILING.

I don't find this thread depressing at all, I feel that selling a polyp that was chipped off of a 6" x 6" rock which someone paid $70.00 for with 70 polyps on it, and selling one polyp for $ 50, well....that's what I find depressing.

Many will say, "well what's wrong with making a few bucks to help subsidize the cost of running a reef tank. I say nothing is wrong with making a few bucks, my problem is those who are making a killing as stated above and misleading innocent newbies who truly believe they are getting a deal and something rare when most often it isn't. The last time I checked Ebay, every zoa and paly had "RARE" next to it, LOL. This is so funny. Most of this stuff isn't rare people. I learned this in my first year marketing 101 class. It's hype, false claims to excite you. It's a means to get your money and "usually", I said usually, the people who defend these sky high prices are sellers at these sky high prices. I once sold some frags for $ 15 for 15 to 20 polyps. Someone contacted me and told me I shouldn't do that cause it brought the cost down and they couldn't make as much money. I told them they were my frags and I'm selling them for what they are worth. Then he replied with some choice words. I replied in all caps that my neighbor is the prosecuting attorney and ask him if he wanted to retract his statements which were overt threats. This is what this has come to.

I wrote a very long informative and detailed article on this entire topic. I chose not to publish it years ago, this thread has changed my mind. I going to revise it and prepare to publish it. These high prices are running many reefers away who want to grow and collect them but can't afford them, the colorful ones, not just the common green and orange ones. This hobby use to be fun.

No disrespect to anyone, just my opinion as others have stated theirs as well. This is a subject and topic I will continue to defend and speak up and out on and against publicly.

Lets keep this topic going.


Mucho Reef
 
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+1 To Mucho...

I know I have only been in the hobby for 3 years but since when did 2 tiny polyps make someones tank a TOTM??? What happened to the guy who had a 500+ plus colony of some cool zoas that he grew out over the years? Its now who has the latest polyps and deepest pockets. I wouldn't care at all if these were truely rare corals and you had to have super expensive permits for taking them and it took extensive research to propogate them and stuff but IT'S NOT THE CASE. Take RPE for example they used to be the in thing and go for sky high prices but now i see huge colonies of them and from LFS i picked up a frag for 10 dollars for the whole thing not per polyp. If only people understood that we are not b****ing about how we can't afford to buy super expensive polyps but that we know where this hobby is going. All people care about is whats the name of their polyp and how much is it worth...
 
No disrespect to anyone but this is like the 5th thread exactly like this. You say the prices made the hobby not fun anymore but these complaint threads are bringing the hobby down too. If you dont like it get out there and trade or sell for reasonable prices so people dont have to pay retailers so much. I dont really blame the people making a buck to fund their hobby but you can still sell for half the retailers price and still make a profit. Sorry I just had to vent cause all these threads are depressing me.

+1

Bottom line theres always going to be "haters" at the end of the day WE ALL like the same type of coral hence why were here. The thing is no one holds a gun to your head and says "buy this single over priced polyp now" if you like it and its in YOUR budget buy it. but ALWAYS haggle and do prior homework before buying. With the same token everyone is entitled to his/her own option.
"chucktd321" said "If only we could get people to stop paying a hundred dollars for a single polyp" true... or boycott zoas and stop buying them.. The thing is people no one forces you to buy coral. you decide to pull the cash out of your wallet or plastic.. Just like Safeway sells a box of cereal for 3.99 "damn thats alot" but do YOU have to buy it right there then and now? is it the only box of cereal left on the planet? no i go to the dollar store or i look for a better deal. Join a reef club. trade with others. craigslist etc.

Yes i agree with you chuck some of these websites are smoking crack and are asking retarted prices.. but watch this DONT BUY THEM ;) and let that zoa ROT on that website. I have been in your shoes and understand, i have been watching this hobby rot from the inside out for a long time now but i still do have the passion for this type of coral. and want to learn.

I just dont wanna see new zoa/paly freaks get scared off or people throw in the towel beacuse of overpriced znp's or haters. WERE A FAMILY!!!

ok enough with the after school special ;) :beer:
 
But the $1000 fish is fine...

See, there's a huge difference here. Fish are not propagated by hobbyists. When we buy a fish that's rare, it's coming from a remote island that doesn't export much or has severe restrictions on what and how many can be collected. If you're paying that for a fish, you better believe it's actually rare. Fish do not have ridiculous names and their prices are not driven up from marketing hype...
 
See, there's a huge difference here. Fish are not propagated by hobbyists. When we buy a fish that's rare, it's coming from a remote island that doesn't export much or has severe restrictions on what and how many can be collected. If you're paying that for a fish, you better believe it's actually rare. Fish do not have ridiculous names and their prices are not driven up from marketing hype...

This comes full circle again I guess.

Why is the fish rare and by whose definition? Rare can mean several things depending on who is using the term. There maybe few individuals period, they may have a small range (endemic) but found in high numbers in concentrated areas, ot have a broad range but only a few individuals are found all over.
For the hobby why are they rare? The diver can only collect 1 per month and that one has a size limit?
As far as names they may not be ridiculous like zoas or chalices but they do have a catchy name as well for marketing as much as anything else.
 
+1 To Mucho...

I know I have only been in the hobby for 3 years but since when did 2 tiny polyps make someones tank a TOTM??? What happened to the guy who had a 500+ plus colony of some cool zoas that he grew out over the years? Its now who has the latest polyps and deepest pockets. I wouldn't care at all if these were truely rare corals and you had to have super expensive permits for taking them and it took extensive research to propogate them and stuff but IT'S NOT THE CASE. Take RPE for example they used to be the in thing and go for sky high prices but now i see huge colonies of them and from LFS i picked up a frag for 10 dollars for the whole thing not per polyp. If only people understood that we are not b****ing about how we can't afford to buy super expensive polyps but that we know where this hobby is going. All people care about is whats the name of their polyp and how much is it worth...

With all the PM's and emails I'm receiving, a lot of people are starting to see the light. If this continues and spread to other sites, the day will come when we can walk into a LFS again and say this.... ( click the link )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK7kjtnW8t4&feature=related
 
Comparing fish to zoas is like comparing apples and oranges. True some fish such as clownfish are propagated in aquaria but your real expensive fish (i.e. dragon eels) are definitely not at this point in time. Rare I believe in what people are saying is not in the sense as in the wild for which there are millions (might also be sparse as what kafudafish stated) but in regards to in aquaculture when compared to other types of fish and polyps in hobbyist tanks. As stated before I got some utter chaos for a killer price the other day and you know what? it already got another polyp haha I am loving it. Now these particular polyps are most likely not as common in peoples tanks YET as compared to other zoas so they can be rarer in the hobby at this time but I wouldn't advertise it to make an extra buck. Am I gonna sell them for 195 bucks a peice when I feel like I have a good size colony and need to frag? nah. Would I do it for 100 bucks a peice? nah. I might irrate a few and on the other side make some friends when the time is right. Like Mucho said they are his polyps and no one elses.

I do like the statements on buying/trading with local reefers as a start. This way we can get what we want (im willing to trade uc for rh later) and don't have to pay those ridiculous prices. Hopefully newer people will see this and catch on. Hell I am already initiating that. Those overpriced zoas on the websites can sit there. I also picked up a frag (16 polyps with a couple buds forming of rose nebulas) for 70 bucks. Sure beats the price of 20 pp of what was being sold for locally. When I saw that I turned to my girl and said no way...lets go. Now these polyps do cost more I can understand as compared to your typical greens and browns so I feel like it was a good deal (the 16 polyp) at todays hype prices. I got a lot of my nice polyps from a new friend of mine who is leaving the hobby. I met him on the forums and I made a promise whenever he gets back in just hit me up and I will hook him up (also promised a RBTA).

I can go on and on but I feel like I already lost a few people haha. I will stop now. btw mucho...I would really like to read your article. I find your post and everything very informative and helpful.
 
Lol at the link. I was laughing with my one bud when we were discussing the chalices on bay corals you know the only 1000 bucks an eye stuff haha
 
no kidding, theres to many people trying to make this into a business anymore, thats why people actually justify spending $100+ per polyp for zoa's because they plan to grow them out and cash in on them. I remember getting in an argument with a few people on here because i posted a picture of some zoa's for sale that were almost exactly the same as candy apple reds and were $20 for 50+ polyps on a 2-3 pound rock.... i got nasty pm's blah blah blah...... who cares, i have bought zoa's at petsmart for cheap, 200+ polyps on a rock for $29.99 and have amazing color.

Bottom line.....this hobby is no longer a hobby, its becoming a business, even in the local reef clubs swapping isnt what it used to be, everybody wants cash, the most of the time people dont frag theyre corals, they just let them grow, the people that are fragging theyre stuff are in it for the money 99% of the time. the most expensive thing i would buy would be a nice large colony of sps for $100 or less, but a teeny tiny zoa for $100? i think not....
 
i think im going to try to find some brown zoa's and call them p.o.s. zoa's and price them out at $200 per polyp. I might even take a yellow marker and put yellow speckles on them like corn, that would be $300 pp though.... pm me if anybodys interested in some...
 
hahaha p.o.s. zoas haha. council bluffs? thats where my dad was born and raised. Been there once...big difference from los angeles. Nice to have you here noobtothereef :beer:
 
my favorite part of this naming thing is just because some dude picked it out (fox, tyree, etc.) makes them cost 2x as much. Like they are just well known reefers who cherry picked a couple lfs then grow them out and say its more valueable now that they grew them out.

When you guys see the chuck le zuper zippers you know i made it big
 
Didn't mean to start a debate, all I wanted to see was large colonies of trendy zoa's ! oh and by the way , how much for the Chuck LE zuper zippers ;)
 
no kidding, theres to many people trying to make this into a business anymore, thats why people actually justify spending $100+ per polyp for zoa's because they plan to grow them out and cash in on them. I remember getting in an argument with a few people on here because i posted a picture of some zoa's for sale that were almost exactly the same as candy apple reds and were $20 for 50+ polyps on a 2-3 pound rock.... I got nasty pm's blah blah blah...... Who cares, i have bought zoa's at petsmart for cheap, 200+ polyps on a rock for $29.99 and have amazing color.

Bottom line.....this hobby is no longer a hobby, its becoming a business, even in the local reef clubs swapping isnt what it used to be, everybody wants cash, the most of the time people dont frag theyre corals, they just let them grow, the people that are fragging theyre stuff are in it for the money 99% of the time. The most expensive thing i would buy would be a nice large colony of sps for $100 or less, but a teeny tiny zoa for $100? I think not....


+ 100
 
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