chucktd321
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triggerman unless your drive a lambo you can't afford them nuff said lol. [violation]
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Is it just me ?
- Thread starter xxtriggermanxx
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Mustang Boy
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i agree with everything mucho has said and i wish that they sold zoas the way he used to instead of having names for everything just describe the colors and post up some pics of what they look like. i could careless about names all i care about is how they look and the only reason i would frag a big colony of zoas would be to only frag a few polyps off of it to trade for another frag of zoas to let them spread out and form a nice sized colony
xxtriggermanxx
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ok ,not for nothing but i'm still waiting for pictures !
I too have been waiting as well. I'm not trying to be cocky, arrogant or anything of the sort. This is what hype, sky high prices, naming and price gouging has created, nothing but frag tanks full of frags with 1 to 3 polyps in a square or rectangular tank on round plugs. Where are all the colonies? They have been hacked. No disrespect to anyone.
I stopped by a store in Michigan and the owner received several colonies in of some zoas and palys. Everything was common and colorful but there wasn't a single odd, rare, hard to find or stunning piece there and I was interested in making several purchases. Do you know what he did? He fragged every single colony down to 100 round plugs with mostly 1 to 3 polyps glued to the center of said plugs. 80 % were single polyp frags. He ask my advice on growing zoas and palys and I spoke with him at lenght for nearly an hour as he took notes. After seeing a tank full of over 100 tiny frags, I kindly told him that I could not and would not be visiting his store again, ever. And I was very polite and explained why. I saw several pieces that I wanted but refused to pay $ 15 and $ 20 plus for a single common polyp. This is absolutely ridiculous. I stuck to my guns as I have for over 2 years now and didn't purchase a single thing. I will not succumb and give anyone my money for something that is worth a fraction of what is being charged these days.
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noobtothereef
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Glad to be here! Council bluffs is shaping up bit by bit.... its still no la though lol
noobtothereef
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i could see a store selling frag plus with 20-30 polyps of a common zoa for $10-$15 but a single polyp??? how stupid..... They are just trying to rob poor folk that dont know any better..... Theres an lfs here in town that does the same thing, they had a flat rock with about 100 polyps on it in theyre dt, really common green zoa's, the next time i was theyre the rock was cut into about 5 polyp frags for $19.99, that same day i went to petsmart and bought the same zoa's 200+ polyps on a big rock for $24.99..... also had tiny orange digi frags about 3/4" for $39.99...hahahahahahahaha!!! and a green slimer frag for $69.99!! hahahahahahaha silly.....
Thank you for sharing that, this is what Charles, I and others have been saying for years. How can the same coral sell for $ 20 a polyp on the east side and $ 20 for 20 polyps on the west side? And it's the SAME polyp !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
chucktd321
New member
dude 70 dollars for a green slimer... I got a 2" frag for ten dollars that is seriously just insane. I'm thankful i don't really like chalices because they are seriously marking them up like no other.
Akwarius
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I've been away from this thread for a couple of days and now that I'm back I see that it's gone off the deep end. Could you guys please just start a "griping about polyp pricing thread" and use it to vent. Every other thread on this forum gets hijacked and turned into an unreadable mess. I would love to see large colonies of so called trendy zoanthids, but they don't exist. That's right, it's no conspiracy to rip everyone off. You won't see large colonies of rare polyps because when they are collected from the ocean there might only be a handful or so mixed in with common zoas. Not only that, rare and expensive polyps are often times very difficult to keep. Take Sopranos, the colony came into Aqua SD, was sold $50 per polyp, and everyone who got them melted them. Similar circumstance with Armageddons, they look great and then melt. Not all zoas/palys are created equal. Some occur less commonly in the ocean and some do poorly in captivity. So stop pretending that it's all a marketing conspiracy and be happy with your common polyps.
Hmmmm, why would you say that this thread has, "gone off the deep end". Is it because many people have an opinion that opposes yours? Whenever this topic comes up, someone shows up to try and sensor the feelings of others. This is a public forum and everyone, including you my friend, is allowed to voice their opinion. There really is no need to start a special thread to "grip", many are comfortable with posting right here so you should allow them to do so.
You stated, "Every other thread on this forum gets hijacked and turned into an unreadable mess". There are 25 spaces on this page for individual post. I just counted a total of 2 threads which are discussing this topic, that is a far cry from, "every other thread being hijacked". With all due respect, you just insulted every person whose opinion differs from yours by calling their post, "an unreadable mess". I wouldn't allow someone to refer to your post that way and I think you owe them an apology.
You mentioned, " you won't see large colonies of rare polyps because when they are collected from the ocean there might only be a handful or so mixed in with common zoas". Not sure where you got that from, but that isn't true. The actual divers, who make very little by the way, aren't swimming around the ocean floor with a database of what's common, rare, hard to find or with a list of named zoas and palys. They look, find and collect. Reefers, LFS and now wholesalers are the ones who define them with these labels. What's considered rare isn't always found as a few polyps speckled in with a colony full of common polyps.
Sir, rare and expensive polyps which you say are often times very difficult to keep, well, it's not because they are rare. If you collect polyps from 4 different regions and various depths, I can guarantee you that something is going to perish. They aren't difficult to keep, you have to find a happy medium for them to survive. It's something a lot of people choose not to do. This is why it's best not to continually purchase the same polyps which perishes over and over in ones tanks. Knowing the region they came from and the type of conditions they prefer, is what it takes to keep those polyps alive which I hear people saying always perish in captivity. I wonder if everyone who got them, took the time to even inquire of the region they were collected.
You are absolutely correct, all zoas and palys are not created equal. That's why some flourish while others perish. Some prefer more light than others. Some prefer more current then others. Some prefer different height of placement than others. Some can and will survive and thrive with photosynthesis alone, while others will not survive without secondary food supplementation. I can go on and on. These are the topics which should be discussed in this forum, but aren't.
There are many topics in this forum of which I don't agree with, so I choose to avoid them by looking away, but I will defend everyones right to speak their minds and not try to sensor them. Please allow us to do the same with all due respect.
Mucho Reef
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kichimark
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. I posted my tubbs colony haha...its a pic of something right? haha. I know I need to work on my camera skills...it was a cell pic.
I agree with mucho in that it has not gone off the deep end. We are all having a good discussion on the topic that just happens to lead to fragging colonies and high prices. To say it is a "mess" is going off the deep end unless what you meant it was with the chopping of colonies and prices :thumbsup:
kichimark
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You gave me an idea.
Akwarius
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Haha! I didn't intend to offend anyone. I apologize those couple of reefers who were sharing interesting anecdotes about polyp pricing. I'm just frustrated that so many good threads get hijacked and redirected to this issue. Aquaph8 is right, it is depressing that so many conversations end up this way. The discussion is important and obviously needs to be addressed, somewhere. I would not advocate censorship (or is it sensorship?) because it would prevent me from saying this: Go to diver's den and buy a large colony of zoanthids for 60 bucks already!
I'm going to let you in on a little secret about cherry picks. It all starts at the wholesale level. They know what to look for and the mark up starts there. It has to be done to offset the loss on common polyps and doa. A lot of zoanthids don't even make it to the retail level because of fungus. Some wholesalers are even selling zoanthid frags now. And then which retailers actually get to sell the cherry picks is apparently very political. This practice holds true for just about every type of cherry coral out there. There are high volume, low quality corals and low volume, high quality corals. No gatekeeper preventing rare zoanthids from hitting the market. The price is determined by the market, and there are people out there who are willing to pay inflated prices for the very best. Complaining about this reality on a hobbyist forum will never change that.
I'm going to let you in on a little secret about cherry picks. It all starts at the wholesale level. They know what to look for and the mark up starts there. It has to be done to offset the loss on common polyps and doa. A lot of zoanthids don't even make it to the retail level because of fungus. Some wholesalers are even selling zoanthid frags now. And then which retailers actually get to sell the cherry picks is apparently very political. This practice holds true for just about every type of cherry coral out there. There are high volume, low quality corals and low volume, high quality corals. No gatekeeper preventing rare zoanthids from hitting the market. The price is determined by the market, and there are people out there who are willing to pay inflated prices for the very best. Complaining about this reality on a hobbyist forum will never change that.
xxtriggermanxx
New member
not that your tubbs aren't pretty (they are). just not very trendy (new)
From this day forward, I will not reply to another thread in which you are involved. There is something you have done here 6 times and I have counted. I'm not going to disrespect you or this forum with continued banter with you over a topic of which you are seriously misinformed. Your replies have gone off topic and the reply above isn't even on the topic of this discussion. It is abundantly obvious that you don't like me for some reasons and I have ask you to PM me if you want to discuss it yet you have chosen not to.
I expressed to you earlier in this thread that I did indeed visit Divers Den. The only large colonies they had were very very very common orange polyps and very very very common green polyps. Of course you are going to find those two colors all day, but please direct me to the colonies which have 50+ polyps of what's in your avatar or any of the stunning polyps in all the picture threads. Or any large colonies of blues, red, yellow, pinks etc. This is what the OP is talking about. Isn't it strange that no pictures have appeared here yet. I'm sure you have very large colonies, so please share them with us.
I never said anything about a "gatekeeper" or whatever it is you are discussing. The prices are not determined by the market, it is determined by the gougers. It is blatantly obvious to all of us that you prefer to pay enormously sky high prices for a polyp which often dies in transit or within days of arrival, and/or you are a seller of these sky high polyps and my replies and those replies of others who agree are seriously offending you and affecting your profits. With all due respect, I'm not here to help others make money, I'm here to help educate newbies and the like who may not know what is going on as many feel that zoas and palys are collected from the ocean floor as single polyp frags. Which you and I both know isn't true. I have tons of emails and PM's from those who have thanked me and have expressed that they never knew some of the stuff being discussed here. Many never even knew they grew to large colonies.
You're saying that sky high prices are due to , "It has to be done to offset the loss on common polyps and zoas." So zoas and palys didn't start dying until 2005/2006 which was the exact same time that names begin and sky high prices followed? Again, you are making claims which makes absolutely no sense. Polyp loss is not responsible for sky high prices, gouging is. You have given several reasons now for these prices.
At first you said every other thread was being hijacked. I proved to you that that isn't true. Now you're saying "so many good threads are being hijacked". Sir, 2 out of 25 threads are discussing this topic. I don't see you saying this with all of the picture threads being posted when we have a sticky at the top of the page for pictures. I don't see you speaking up with all of the other redundant post in this forum. Yet you want to shoot down every thread which discusses pricing and names. Please, please allow people to speak their minds and if it troubles you to do so or to see this topic, ....please....just look away. How many more good experienced, knowledgeable, helpful, mature reefers do we have to lose because they are tired of seeing the con game of price gouging, hype threads I/we're speaking of right here in this thread? I think everyday of my buddy Charles who painfully left this hobby as many others here have because he loved this hobby so much that he just got tired of seeing what was happening to it. I didn't see you attacking him BTW. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1881457
Yes, there are people out there who are willing to pay these sky high prices, but the problem sir is that they/you are setting a precedent and tone for others to do the same and this drives the price up for those of us who DON'T want to pay those sky high prices. Then you tell us " well, just don't buy them", and I don't. But why should we have to stop buying because the people who do pay these prices are ruining it for the rest of us who want to buy but refuse to be ripped off?. Did you read the replies of the people here who agree? If you and others will pay $ 50 for a polyp, then the seller feels justified in doing this elsewhere and others see it and they make the same justification and the bandwagon is now loaded with people doing the same. What you fail to see and understand is that the wholesalers and retailers didn't create these high prices, it was actual reefers who started this in 2005/2006. I was here, right here when they started giving them names, calling them all rare, saying they were limited editions, hard to find, seldom seen, new to the market and Willie Bo Bo just released these and you better get them now since he's only releasing 4 of them. What??? Are you kidding me? There is no such thing as Limited Edition? There's no magic Mermaid swimming around the ocean floor who has a monopoly on how many Paris Hilton Powder Pink Poofy Palythoas she's going to release this month. I provided links of how we use to sell and trade. That all changed when naming came to be which was quickly followed by lies and deception which lead to "SKY HIGH" prices.
My friend, that is no secret, we all know that cherry picking begins with the wholesalers. In fact, they have even become more aggressive in doing so as they see just how many people who are willing to pay these prices. This is why you see new on line stores popping up every week. Selling zoas and palys is a cash cow. I personally know of several people who couldn't stand zoas and palys and would kill every polyp they saw on a rock. I mean there was a time when no one, I mean no one wanted zoas and palys and there was very little discussion on them when I first joined here. We cleaned up this forum and got rid of all the flaming and then someone started naming them. That's when a ton of people sold every sps they had and were now buying and selling zoas and palys only. Why, it's EXTREMELY profitable. The more people are educated about this, well, less profits some are going to make and it will be a bit harder to afford that vacation, or that new truck, or the new camper etc. This is a hobby, not a business as someone stated her earlier.
98 % of the replies in this thread are against sky high prices, so please allow us to speak. If you don't want a topic discussed, sir that's censorship. I will continue to speak up and out on this topic until the day I can walk into a LFS and say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUBUxv4VsTw
With all due respect, Mucho Reef
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Akwarius
New member
Mucho, you are clearly very intelligent and capable of an extremely lengthy reply. On many points you agree with me, and yet you insist on polarizing this discussion. The world is not black and white my friend. Don't grasp at straws in an attempt to discredit my point of view. I am just another hobbyist like you, trying to bring clarity to this discussion, not a price gouger or profiteer. You may have been on this forum longer than me, but your words are not gospel. I have bought at least a half dozen colonies of named zoanthids off of divers den at a fraction of the typical per polyp price. Same with Aqua SD, Blue Zoo, RHS, the list goes on. I can see the diamond in the rough, whereas you just pass them off as common. Do you need someone to take a macro shot with actinics in order for a polyp to have value? The deals are out there if you know where to look. Sure, they may be more expensive than 2005, but so are acans and chalices. I have looked at hundreds of colony pictures that were sent to my LFS, as well as checking every single update on the sites that get wild colonies, so I have a pretty good idea of what gets imported and what is rare. The polyp in my avatar, for example, has not appeared on a wild colony for at least the past six months. That color morph is sold as aquacultured only, and it's a finicky grower to boot. That is what qualifies as rare, and why a nightmare is worth $15 per polyp and an eagle eye is worth a nickel.
jmproductions
New member
everything you buy is determined by MARKET unless you have a monopoly (which is the first person to sell it) after that everyone starts to grow it and when there is enough supply prices drop. it's as simple as waiting for supply and buying when you thing the price is fair.
There are plenty of places to go to buy zoa, if its to high at one place get it from another. the other place can't sustain that price and they have on it and will eventually have to drop it in order to move it.
more popcorn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
There are plenty of places to go to buy zoa, if its to high at one place get it from another. the other place can't sustain that price and they have on it and will eventually have to drop it in order to move it.
more popcorn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
kichimark
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wow. No one is denying market has a role in it especially with the trendy polyps. What I believe is a big problem is these more common polyps like eagle eyes, button polyps (seen this once happen recently) being labeled as rare like they were your darth muals or utter chaos. New people do not know the difference so it pretty much leads to a rippoff of the newbie. A lot of it is greed and if someone (few people I actually know) sells something for cheaper they actually get messages and calls like in two instances from a friend of mine that they are going to devalue the coral, they will not ever sell to them again (true story) etc etc. Kinda sad wouldn't you agree?
Akwarius
New member
That's very sad, kichimark. I have never known anyone who has fallen for that bait and switch. That's what's great about public forums. We can publicly humiliate and bring awareness to sleazeballs like that. So who were they and why has everyone kept quiet about them?
As far as buying a trendy polyp and selling it for less, I have done this many times. I have never gotten threats or angry emails. I am skeptical that this has happened to anyone. Again, they could be publicly humiliated, and no vendor wants to lose business.
I would urge your friends to post feedback on the vendor forums.
As far as buying a trendy polyp and selling it for less, I have done this many times. I have never gotten threats or angry emails. I am skeptical that this has happened to anyone. Again, they could be publicly humiliated, and no vendor wants to lose business.
I would urge your friends to post feedback on the vendor forums.
kichimark
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Totally. I was surprised myself when he told me that. I didn't believe it till I was at his house and he showed me an email. Some people just get caught up in how much they can sell things for. I will tell him to come back to RC and say something. Not sure if it was a vendor on here though. I was more interested in the lasagna his wife was making haha. He left the hobby a few weeks ago due to having to leave the state for reasons I cant say. Seems like a lot of folks are leaving reefing though. But like you have said thats why I like these forums. It can be very educational and enlightning. Get to met reefers from all over the world and share experiences. Thats why I havn't left myself.
The guy that bought a button polyp paid 15 dollars for a two polyp frag at a local store. I met him after he bought the polyps. I told him they are cool and grow fast but they are a dime a dozen. He didn't really believe me...guess he trusted the worker more. Eh whatever. I am starting to see it more now since I began reefing so I can see the frustrations of many of the old reefers.
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