It's time, let's see those SPS tanks using LEDs 1 year or longer

[JaneG]

Yea, RC TOTM... What does Tony know about growing corals?? Lmao

The debate isn't about just growing corals, it's about LEDs - and I don't know if "Tony" has any credentials there. :strange:

I'm not an expert on lighting on any regards, but I have had LEDs over 3 tanks now and T5 lighting on one of them. In my opinion, there isn't a whole lot of difference between LED and T5 - both do great with SPS. But don't turn to LEDs if you're looking for some kind of "magic cure" to something. I believe water quality is by far the most important aspect for coral color/health. I also believe that light intensity is far more important than spectrum as well (hence why I'm not a fan of recent "disco ball" lighting builds). In the end (again, my opinion) I think we'll all be laughing at the claim that LEDs can't grow corals, just like what happened with T5 lighting.

I haven't seen a single tank here lit with LEDs that show corals with their best possible colors. I see a lot of purple, blue, green, and brown. I had my tank on LEDs for over a year and within 2 weeks of switching to an MH and T5 combo I saw a noticeable difference in growth and color. After a month, it was a different tank altogether.

I think, at this point, the majority of reefers don't use LEDs (especially on large builds where SPS corals are more commonly kept) due to price - there's a systemic bias right there. In lieu of that, there are plenty of builds that have (what I would consider to be) their "best possible colors." Acrotrdco's tank and many tanks I saw when I was in Japan (where LED lighting is more popular) come to mind.

As for "purple, blue, green, and brown"... well, I can personally disagree with you there. My old nano (20g - NW/RB at a ratio of 1:1.5) had colors exactly where they should be. My red planet was bright red with an emerald green base. Setosa was orange. Stylophora and birdsnest were hot pink. Pearlberry was teal with purple tips and green polyps. You get the point. Same for when they were under T5 lighting. Just my experiences though. :wavehand:

 

[MedRed]

The debate isn't about just growing corals, it's about LEDs - and I don't know if "Tony" has any credentials there. :strange:

I'm not an expert on lighting on any regards, but I have had LEDs over 3 tanks now and T5 lighting on one of them. In my opinion, there isn't a whole lot of difference between LED and T5 - both do great with SPS. But don't turn to LEDs if you're looking for some kind of "magic cure" to something. I believe water quality is by far the most important aspect for coral color/health. I also believe that light intensity is far more important than spectrum as well (hence why I'm not a fan of recent "disco ball" lighting builds). In the end (again, my opinion) I think we'll all be laughing at the claim that LEDs can't grow corals, just like what happened with T5 lighting.


I think, at this point, the majority of reefers don't use LEDs (especially on large builds where SPS corals are more commonly kept) due to price - there's a systemic bias right there. In lieu of that, there are plenty of builds that have (what I would consider to be) their "best possible colors." Acrotrdco's tank and many tanks I saw when I was in Japan (where LED lighting is more popular) come to mind.

As for "purple, blue, green, and brown"... well, I can personally disagree with you there. My old nano (20g - NW/RB at a ratio of 1:1.5) had colors exactly where they should be. My red planet was bright red with an emerald green base. Setosa was orange. Stylophora and birdsnest were hot pink. Pearlberry was teal with purple tips and green polyps. You get the point. Same for when they were under T5 lighting. Just my experiences though. :wavehand:

Would love to see the pics of your tank. There have been a LOT of led builds over the past few years. There are a lot of tanks with off the shelf and DYI leds over them. I have yet to see one that looks as good as it would if lit with traditional lighting. I'm not saying they are horrible looking with leds, but even the 800 gallon split tank at my LFS looks much better on the MH side than on the LED side. I've been one of the few reefers who has had the luxury to try sol blues (1 year), Radions (5 months), and MH+T5 (4 months) on the same tank. My growth and color far surpassed nearly a year and a half of LED lights within 3 months of MH+T5. I've taken regular FTS shots of my tank, so the evidence is there. There are a lot of benefits to LED. Allowing corals to look as good as if they were under more traditional forms of lighting isn't one of them.

 

[JaneG]

Allowing corals to look as good as if they were under more traditional forms of lighting isn't one of them.

That's a little too cut and dry, don't you think? Just because that was your experience doesn't mean it's everyone's. :strange: I don't have a lot of pics of my old nano, but I was really proud of it at the time and I dug up a few pics. Unfortunately, I sold all these pieces because I am moving onto a larger 125g (with LEDs - they proved themselves to me), but growth and color was just as good as it was with T5s.

Pink birdsnest (tiny Millepora in the background)

GARF Bonsai

Pink Stylophora with Pearlberry in the background

Unidentified Acro (from Mr. Coral)

Setosa - first week after I got it from Mr. Coral (arrived faded but colored up very quickly)

If anyone's wondering, I had a ratio of 1:1.5 NW:RB. I'm not sure what current they were driven at, however, since it was dimmable.

 

[dvanacker]

Would love to see the pics of your tank. There have been a LOT of led builds over the past few years. There are a lot of tanks with off the shelf and DYI leds over them. I have yet to see one that looks as good as it would if lit with traditional lighting. I'm not saying they are horrible looking with leds, but even the 800 gallon split tank at my LFS looks much better on the MH side than on the LED side. I've been one of the few reefers who has had the luxury to try sol blues (1 year), Radions (5 months), and MH+T5 (4 months) on the same tank. My growth and color far surpassed nearly a year and a half of LED lights within 3 months of MH+T5. I've taken regular FTS shots of my tank, so the evidence is there. There are a lot of benefits to LED. Allowing corals to look as good as if they were under more traditional forms of lighting isn't one of them.

The only nice SPS tank I've seen under LED is Howard Roy.....who destroyed his reputation/trust worthiness when he forgot to mention the fact that he has business ties to the LEDs he was flaunting over his tank. That and he uses a crazy amount of supplements.

I would love to see just Joe blow show up here with an amazing SPS tank running LEDs(for a while and grown the actual corals using it).....but it hasnt happened. You gotta wonder why....

 

[dvanacker]

1:1.5 NW:RB

must have been crazy white, borerline yellow no?

how long did you have these corals......no offence but frags dont tell us much.

Would love to see some frag to colony shots grown under LED......

anyone?

 

[JaneG]

must have been crazy white, borerline yellow no?

how long did you have these corals......no offence but frags dont tell us much.

Would love to see some frag to colony shots grown under LED......

anyone?

True - I certainly didn't have colonies under here! I would say a good 8 months or so, but those pictures were pretty early (maybe 3 months in?). Coloration remained constant during those 8 months though. But how do frags "not tell us much"? Aren't they essentially the same as a colony in terms of coloration, just smaller and not as many shaded areas? I ordered almost all of these frags online and they all arrived pretty faded, but they managed to color up.

For the record, I used the same ratio in my new tank - it doesn't look white/yellow at all to me (again, it was dimmed so the ratio might be more in favor of the whites or more in favor of the blues, I'm not quite sure). Certainly nothing like a 20K lighting however... tanks that overuse blue look really unnatural to me, though.

 

[dvanacker]

Your right frags that have at least colored up can tell us something. Just not nearly as much as a colorful colony grown from a frag under LED.....still haven't seen this.

20K lighting however... tanks that overuse blue look really unnatural to me, though

Most people who say this and stick with the hobby eventual make the switch to more blue lighting. It may be unnatural but heck its all unnatural but blue brings the colors/florescence out and that is what I see.

 

[JaneG]

Your right frags that have at least colored up can tell us something. Just not nearly as much as a colorful colony grown from a frag under LED.....still haven't seen this.

Uhm... why? Just wondering your reasoning on this. The pearlberry in the background of the third pic was grown from a tiny frag to a mini colony (it was one of the first corals in there). That shows (to me at least) that the growth itself can be colorful as well. Same goes for the birdsnest... all the growth was just as colorful (even at the end when it was a mini colony).

Most people who say this and stick with the hobby eventual make the switch to more blue lighting. It may be unnatural but heck its all unnatural but blue brings the colors/florescence out and that is what I see.

Okay, that's a bit off topic, but I've never once heard that people eventually switch over. :lmao: Actually when I started reefing I was in love with 20k lighting but now I hate it (too "willy wonka" like for my tastes). I was actually inspired by that ratio from veteran reefers and from some friends tanks in Japan (who have been in the hobby much longer than you -I assume- or I have). Don't forget, lots of great colors don't "fluoresce" under blues at all - pinks (like from stylos, etc.) come to mind. It looks a lot better under whiter light in my experiences.

 

[MedRed]

That's a little too cut and dry, don't you think? Just because that was your experience doesn't mean it's everyone's. :strange: I don't have a lot of pics of my old nano, but I was really proud of it at the time and I dug up a few pics. Unfortunately, I sold all these pieces because I am moving onto a larger 125g (with LEDs - they proved themselves to me), but growth and color was just as good as it was with T5s.

Pink birdsnest (tiny Millepora in the background)

GARF Bonsai

Pink Stylophora with Pearlberry in the background

Unidentified Acro (from Mr. Coral)

Setosa - first week after I got it from Mr. Coral (arrived faded but colored up very quickly)

If anyone's wondering, I had a ratio of 1:1.5 NW:RB. I'm not sure what current they were driven at, however, since it was dimmable.

1) It's obvious those pics are touched up quite a bit. If you were 1 to 1.5 your colors should not look that blue.

2) Pink, neon green, and orangey corals look just fine under LEDs. My Setosa, green slimer, and Red Gonoipora (actually pink) popped nicely under LEDs. Any green polyps also looked great under LEDs.

3) My Pearlberry looked similar to yours under LEDs (which isn't how you described it above). This is how it looks now and how it should look...

must have been crazy white, borerline yellow no?

how long did you have these corals......no offence but frags dont tell us much.

Would love to see some frag to colony shots grown under LED......

anyone?

Exactly... I had several corals I'd buy from an MH tank that didn't look as nice under LEDs. Time added insult to injury as the corals slowly lost certain aspects of their color over time and never regained it. It took time for them to get those aspects back under my new fixture, but it was evident from week two that things were better than they were.

There's a reason why we aren't seeing super nice tanks under LEDs. Any that exist are exceptions rather than the norm.

I was a huge proponent of LEDs at first. I tried changing things up, going with different fixtures, and lying to myself that I was happy with them. It was a hassle and blow to the wallet going through the denial process and finally switching over to T5 + MH. Several months later and the thick of a valley summer in LA... without a shadow of a doubt I made the absolute right decision. I wish I would have foregone LEDs all together, but at least I learned enough to have an educated opinion and never be lured by the thought of a full led light setup again.

 

[dvanacker]

Uhm... why? Just wondering your reasoning on this. The pearlberry in the background of the third pic was grown from a tiny frag to a mini colony (it was one of the first corals in there). That shows (to me at least) that the growth itself can be colorful as well. Same goes for the birdsnest... all the growth was just as colorful (even at the end when it was a mini colony).

That is a pearlberry? Are you sure? It really doesnt look nearly as nice as mine or others I've seen here. Im sorry that sounds harse and Im not saything for any other reason but its the truth.

As for the other pictures well its fine that you tell me how great they did over a long period but all im looking at is frags....some of them have not even encrusted yet. So basically its your word about how well they did long term. And taking someone's word is fine but again no offense but I dont know you personally...nor have you been on this board very much.

Im not saying its not possible.....Im just saying I havent seen the proof yet.

 

[JaneG]

1) It's obvious those pics are touched up quite a bit. If you were 1 to 1.5 your colors should not look that blue.

2) Pink, neon green, and orangey corals look just fine under LEDs. My Setosa, green slimer, and Red Gonoipora (actually pink) popped nicely under LEDs. Any green polyps also looked great under LEDs.

3) My Pearlberry looked similar to yours under LEDs (which isn't how you described it above). This is how it looks now and how it should look...

1. Again, not sure what ratio I was truly running since they were dimmable. And the images weren't touched much up at all, actually - the only tools I even know how to use in photoshop is brightness/contrast, crop and how to resize for my photography class. :lmao: Also, notice the frag plug here:

It's stark white and should give a good idea of the tank's color. If I were to edit these photos, wouldn't all the other colors be different as well (ie. when a sandbed looks bright blue in editted photos)? The setosa photo has a different "color" to it since it was taken with a regular camera and the others were taken with my grandfather's DSLR.

2. Then you might want to add those to your list of "purple, green, blue and brown", huh? I would be interested to hear what colors you would say are excluded from LEDs. Because you're pretty much not missing any of them.

3. That's certainly how I described it. Looks like teal, green and purple to me, folks. Additionally, since when do corals have to look a certain way to be the "correct" look? I've seen pearlberries range from teal to white - it all depends on parameters and intensity. My particular one was in a tank with high nutrients and high intensity. For the record, these photos aren't taken from above like yours was (above shots are going to be very different, as they don't highlight shaded areas). Id love to see a pic of yours from side, however.

Exactly... I had several corals I'd buy from an MH tank that didn't look as nice under LEDs. Time added insult to injury as the corals slowly lost some certain aspects of their color over time and never regained it.

There's a reason why we aren't seeing super nice tanks under LEDs. Any that are are exceptions rather than the norm.

I was a huge proponent of LEDs at first. I tried changing things up, going with different fixtures, and lying to myself that I was happy with them. It was a hassle and blow to the wallet going through the denial process and finally switching over to T5 + MH. Several months later and the thick of a valley summer in LA and without a shadow of a doubt I made the absolute right decision. I wish I would have foregone LEDs all together, but at least a learned enough to have an educated opinion and never be lured by a full led light setup again.

"There's a reason why we aren't seeing super nice tanks under LEDs. Any that are are exceptions rather than the norm. " That makes a whole lot of sense. :lmao: If someone proves your statement wrong, they're just the magical exception - somehow a chance occurrence. If even one person has a colorful tank (like Howard's), then that proves that the conversation should be over and done with. As far as slowly losing color... most of my corals showed up browned out and beaten up. Again, that's all my opinion. I don't disagree that you might have had a different experience, but I wanted to post to give others the idea that there is another side of the debate as well. LEDs proved themselves to me enough - if they didn't, I wouldn't be buying them for my large build. :strange:

That is a pearlberry? Are you sure? It really doesnt look nearly as nice as mine or others I've seen here. Im sorry that sounds harse and Im not saything for any other reason but its the truth.

As for the other pictures well its fine that you tell me how great they did over a long period but all im looking at is frags....some of them have not even encrusted yet. So basically its your word about how well they did long term. And taking someone's word is fine but again no offense but I dont know you personally...nor have you been on this board very much.

Im not saying its not possible.....Im just saying I havent seen the proof yet.

Yes, it's Pearlberry - and I'd say it looks pretty darn good for a nano tank fed frozen 2-3 times per day (I had a mandarin pair)! You don't need to trust me, but you yourself said you "haven't seen the proof yet" but said earlier: "The only nice SPS tank I've seen under LED is Howard Roy." Proof enough? "Destroyed reputation" or not, he had nice colors under LEDs - it doesn't matter if he was employed by a company selling them. For the record, he defended himself "elsewhere" - his rep. certainly wasn't destroyed in my view

 

[MedRed]

Colors that pop under actinic will pop under blue LEDs. That would be your orange, pink, and greens. Everything else are your browns, blues, and purples. My Hawkins Echinata was purplish blue and not the bluish green that it is now. My joe the coral was brownish, purplish, blue and not the blue/teal and cream that it is now. My granulosa was purple and not the blue, purple, and green that it is now. My frogskin was greenish brown and not the forest green and blue that it is now. miami orchid was brown and purple and not purple like it is now. The list goes on and on.

Top down or not, your pearlberry looks like how my pearlberry looked under LED. I see it from an angle from the top and what it looks like now is completely different from what it turned into under LEDs.


We should be seeing a lot of tanks at this point looking great under LEDs as there are a lot of tanks out there that have made the switch or started under LEDs. It's not happening. What we are seeing is a lot of LED users going back to traditional lighting. I have the luxury of seeing a nice 800 gallon tank w/ split lighting and am able to see the difference in coloration and growth between MH and LED. It's there. I haven't seen Howard's tank, but I have seen a lot of LED tanks that have that familiar look of not quite there.

 

[dvanacker]

Howard is not Joe blow.....if the only person showing results works for/owns the LED company he is flaunting......and even doing so under the impression he is just an average user....well Im not trusting that. Also I didnt see much frag to colony growth in his tank. Plus he listed a heck of a lot of supplements as well.

Asking for someone who does not profit from the sales of LEDs to step up and show proof is not to much to ask is it? Plus it will probably take more than one person unless that person is well known in the reefing community to prove this to most people.

 

[JaneG]

Colors that pop under actinic will pop under blue LEDs. That would be your orange, pink, and greens. Everything else are your browns, blues, and purples. My Hawkins Echinata was purplish blue and not the bluish green that it is now. My joe the coral was brownish, purplish, blue and not the blue/teal and cream that it is now. My granulosa was purple and not the blue, purple, and green that it is now. My frogskin was greenish brown and not the forest green and blue that it is now. miami orchid was brown and purple and not purple like it is now. The list goes on and on.

Top down or not, your pearlberry looks like how my pearlberry looked under LED. I see it from an angle from the top and what it looks like now is completely different from what it turned into under LEDs.


We should be seeing a lot of tanks at this point looking great under LEDs as there are a lot of tanks out there that have made the switch or started under LEDs. It's not happening. What we are seeing is a lot of LED users going back to traditional lighting. I have the luxury of seeing a nice 800 gallon tank w/ split lighting and am able to see the difference in coloration and growth between MH and LED. It's there. I haven't seen Howard's tank, but I have seen a lot of LED tanks that have that familiar look of not quite there.

In my experiences, pinks (like in birdsnest and stylophora) pop zilch under actinic light. If you can show me a pic of a pink birdsnest fluorescing under actinic light, I stand corrected. Also, some blues pop under actinic in my experience? Going back to your statements, all of those color changes are very common with decreased nutrient levels as well. Correlation does not prove causation.

Additionally, I think we should be seeing nice tanks under LEDs. But I would blame the designers of commercial fixtures for a large part of it. They almost all use cool white, and if they don't they "supplement" with disco ball like colors (instead of just using a warmer white). Most people are complaining that their tank looks "iced over" or "washed out." If you look at the spectrum graphs, it's clear that cool white LEDs are to blame for a large part of why many complain their "warm colors" aren't there. Sanjay Joshi also (allegedly) said at a seminar he was frustrated at this himself.

As for this 800g you keep citing, I'm assuming Vivid Aquariums is what you're talking about? In May, Dave (who owns the tank you're referring to) himself said and I quote:

without a doubt, there is great growth and color potential using LEDs or metal halides

Maybe you're just seeing something he's not. And also, we all have the luxury of seeing this comparison tank for ourselves. People who are wanting a first hand account of the differences can watch it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IpJM-EIrPI0

Howard is not Joe blow.....if the only person showing results works for/owns the LED company he is flaunting......and even doing so under the impression he is just an average user....well Im not trusting that. Also I didnt see much frag to colony growth in his tank. Plus he listed a heck of a lot of supplements as well.

Asking for someone who does not profit from the sales of LEDs to step up and show proof is not to much to ask is it? Plus it will probably take more than one person unless that person is well known in the reefing community to prove this to most people.

How does it make any difference if you're an employee using your company's product vs a regular person using said company's product? In the end, you're just 2 consumers using the same lighting. Also, supplements are irrelevant - it would still prove you can grow colorful SPS with LEDs. That's all that matters. Also, I have no clue what you're talking about - I saw tons of growth, see here:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1991180

However, the implication that LEDs cant grow corals has been disproven time and time again and is irrelevant to color. Regarding the end of your post - that's a bit of a viscous cycle. If no veterans are willing to step forward because there is "no proof," then no one is going to step forward (because there are no examples).

 

[MedRed]

as far as pinks... i'm going by what I had in my tank under LEDs. My pink gonoipora popped nicely under the LEDs.

the colors that pop under actinic can really pop under blue LEDs, but that isn't the entire picture.

Those color changes occurred within two weeks of metal halide and within one month I had a completely different tank. It was 100% evident it was the light and not a nutrient issue.

Once upon a time I went to Vivid in order to qualify statements I made regarding the difference on coral color on either side of their LED/MH experiment. This is the same tank with the same nutrients. Here are my findings.

Setosa: LED - Peachy orange, little polyp extension / MH Reddish Orange, full polyp extension.
Cali Tort: LED- faded purple / MH - Deep Purple
Strawberry Shortcake: LED- yellow is slight and pink is pinkish brown / MH- Yellow and iridescent green, tips are pink to pinkish red
Chalices: No contest, MH versions are far more vibrant
Hawkin's Echinata: LED- Purple bluish body with bright blue at the very tips / MH Bluish Green body with bluish tips... far more iridescence.
Jedi Mind Trick: Far more vibrant on MH side
Spathulata: LED - Brownish purple and green / MH - Purple, Green, and hint of pink
Unknown purple Acro: LED - Medium Purple / MH - Royal Purple
Another Acro I don't know the name of: LED - beige skin, brownish purple coralites, no polyp extension / MH - flesh tone skin with a hint of yellow, purple coralites, blue polyps fully extended.

Of the corals that matched up on both sides, only the Red Planet fully approached the coloration of the MH side. The Garf Bonsai was the only coral I felt looked better on the LED side. The Granulosa that was on the MH side had been moved to the LED side and still looked very good.

And regarding Dave's tank. I was one of the main people that not only convinced him to do the experiment but also to go with Radions. Dave is a retailer who needs to sell the latest hot products in the market. This would include LEDs. We've had many discussions on LEDs. He himself admits he puts the nicer pieces on the MH side.

The camera doesn't pick up the difference in look. It's there as plain as day in person. Unfortunately, Dave just had to replace a bunch of lost colonies with new ones on both sides after experimenting with vodka. While the MH side still looks better, a lot of the corals on both sides haven't had time to settle in and grow out under their respective lighting.

I've never said LEDs couldn't grow corals. My tank didn't die for the year it was under AI's. growth was even better under the Radions than under the AI's. Traditional lighting had an immediate and sustained impact on growth and color in my tank. The thing is, it's not like LEDs are being adopted slowly. I have seen a LOT of people convert or start new builds with LEDs. My argument is that corals will not look their best under LEDs.

Last pictures under AI Sol Blues after 1 year

1 month later under Radions

3 months later last picture under Radions

1 month later... first pic @ Day 5 of MH and T5

16 days later under MH + T5

3.5 months later under MH + T5

 

[Tony B (UK)]

Howard lied, he is dishonest. It's on his thread which the rc mods locked, I believe it's still viewable. For me he lost all credibility and I wouldn't be surprised if he grew his corals out under halides or T5s then switched the light unit to LEDs for when visitors came over or for when photoshoots took place. With a tiny tank that's very do-able. And yes, I am that cynical.

I don't think any one has said on this thread LEDs can't grow sps. They can. What is being said is, there's a growing number of respected reefers who feel that LEDs provide inferior lighting for sps. Personally I'd agree and I echo the thrust of Darryl's posts. There's simply a lack of stonking sps tanks with LEDs as their only source of light. I'm talking about ones that have grown from inch long frags, into several feet colonies, with pictures that demonstrate rampant growth, superb colour, health and vitality.

So summing it up, I feel LEDs will grow sps, but I feel LEDs will provide an inferior light, still good but not as good as T5s.

Tony

 

[tntneon]

Hi reefers ,

-I've runned LEDS over my nano for 1.5 years , i'm happy with them , but have to agree that corals will change color a bit.
-If you look at my avatar it was taken after 4 month's of LED lighting , before i had T5 lighting and the coral from my avatar looked more green with bleu tips , under LEDS it changed to fluoserent yellow branches with bleu tips (see avatar).
Growth was still pretty good.
Only down side i experienced was that upper corners were'nt enough lit.
-Now on my 154 G system i'm using a hybrid DIY LED 210 W / T5 fixture (150 w), and i have to say this is what i realy want!!!
Corner are lit well , stil having enough shimmering going on.
Also colors of my avatar SPS are back changing to more greenisch with bleu tips.

-I realyy like it as it is now , and having the advantage that the tank stays pretty cool ( leds)

-will post some pictures later on todayµ

greetingzz tntneon

 

[Paul B]

This frogspawn, (yes I know it is not an SPS) started as this tiny frag my urchin is carrying

In 2 years under LEDs it has grown to about 10"

This acro was also a tiny 12 dollar frag and also grew to grapefruit size under only LEDS.
I would never use any other lighting and I have used it all.
My clam also doubled in size in less than a year under LEDs

 

[Big E]

Additionally, I think we should be seeing nice tanks under LEDs. But I would blame the designers of commercial fixtures for a large part of it. They almost all use cool white, and if they don't they "supplement" with disco ball like colors (instead of just using a warmer white). Most people are complaining that their tank looks "iced over" or "washed out." If you look at the spectrum graphs, it's clear that cool white LEDs are to blame for a large part of why many complain their "warm colors" aren't there. Sanjay Joshi also (allegedly) said at a seminar he was frustrated at this himself.

I agree with this & that's a lot of what supports what Daryl & Med Red are saying.....the colors don't look right including your tank. Most LED units that are in the market don't have the correct mix of emitters......... many times too many of the cool whites are the culprit. There's no way you can get the right colors for your acros with these type of fixtures.

From what I've seen the next batch of new commercial units will have a better chance of equaling T5's & MH. It's gonna take time to get it right.............we'll know once they are out there for a year or so.

I'd have to side with Daryl...........I haven't seen any pictures or in person any acro tanks that impress me under LEDs that don't have MH & LED combos or LED supplemented by T5s.

The funny part is the only tank in this thread that looks good is Tony's t5 tank with his progression pics. I've seen many pictures & tanks that boast colors like his & my own t5's mimic those colors.

Before that I ran MH for 8 years & seen in person & in pics how great corals can look. So far LEDs aren't gettin it done.

I'm still waiting & when these manufacturers get it right with the right combination of diodes & give me the correct bang for the buck, that's when I'll make my change.

 

[MedRed]

I had growth under LEDs... it's just been much better under my MH+T5 fixture. Color was my single biggest issue. I didn't realize I was missing out on growth until after the switch.

My torch grew like crazy under LEDs. It originally started as two heads. I fragged it right before the MH+T5 fixture arrived. I bet your SPS would look even better under traditional lighting.