JBNY's 270 Ver2.0

[ReefWreak]

So the ONLY thing that I did that was out of the ordinary was put in two good size pieces of live rock from the LFS. They had received, what they told me was some Walt Smith cultured live rock, the day before. it was ridiculously clean and VERY purple. So purple that it made my normal purple rock look almost brown, two weeks later I had the acro problems and the color of the coralin on the new rocks has faded to the a dull redish/purple color like in Walt's pictures.

Another thought with this, is that was the purple part of the rock (i.e. a dye) or actual fantastic/bright coralline that was out-competed by your tank's own coralline. If the first one, then maybe the rock wasn't fully cured, and while it didn't peak your pH enough for you to notice (I assume you're running 24/7 pH monitoring) due to water volume or something, it did spike the alkalinity, which may not have been picked up by an old test kit. Or it was such a short period of time before it was used by growth or precipitated that you didn't test during that exact period of time that it spiked so you didn't see it?

Dunno, conspiracies abound, but your new rock pieces just made me think about that, since I know DIY liverock has a pretty decent curing phase that it has to go through. And most importantly, I just hope the worst is over and wish your tank a speedy recovery!

 

[ReefBum]

Joe, hang in there. I am sure you will get through this rough patch soon. Unfortunately, these curveballs are part of the game, even for us veterans. I started my new tank a few months ago and had to endure a bacterial bloom and an outbreak of diatoms. Granted, those are fairly common for a new tank but they are frustrating. I even had something similar happen to me regarding RTN on a couple of frags. Overnight I noticed some burnt tips and bleaching where the frags encrusted on to the rocks. Parameters were good and stable so it was a head scratcher. If only SPS could talk!!

 

[JB NY]

Paranoid me was thinking about the rock on my drive home from work. Came home and immediately pulled the rock from the tank and put it in my QT tank. Told my wife my thoughts and she was was like, oh my god why didn't we think of that, your right it's the only thing that has changed in the tank.

Don't know if that is the cause but, right now none of the corals are looking better so it can't hurt. I can always put the rock back.

 

[JB NY]

Picked up new test kits. Alk was the same at 7.7, Ca at 450, but my Mg was 1500+ in line with the triton test, not my old Salifert test kit. Does anyone know of long term problems with SPS if the Mg is kept elevated (1500+) for long periods of time? I have been dumping Magnesium in the tank for some time to keep it at what I thought was 1400, but now it looks like I had it much higher as even my triton test from back in June had the Mg about 150ppm higher than I was testing.

 

[jpa14]

Any chance you've had a big temp swing in your tank?

 

[mhucasey]

Picked up new test kits. Alk was the same at 7.7, Ca at 450, but my Mg was 1500+ in line with the triton test, not my old Salifert test kit. Does anyone know of long term problems with SPS if the Mg is kept elevated (1500+) for long periods of time? I have been dumping Magnesium in the tank for some time to keep it at what I thought was 1400, but now it looks like I had it much higher as even my triton test from back in June had the Mg about 150ppm higher than I was testing.

I've had magnesium much higher than that for an extended period with no issues other than "bubbling" of the tissue around the coralites. This effect is only seen in close up shots of acros and doesn't seem to cause any damage.

 

[JB NY]

Any chance you've had a big temp swing in your tank?

No chance. Monitored by an Apex, alarms sound all over the place if the temp were to get below 76d. Checked Calibration on the temp less than a month ago too.

 

[JB NY]

I've had magnesium much higher than that for an extended period with no issues other than "bubbling" of the tissue around the coralites. This effect is only seen in close up shots of acros and doesn't seem to cause any damage.

Yeah I didn't think so either. That bubbling I did have on a few corals in the springtime.

 

[acesq]

Joe, this is a shot in the dark, but something else to consider is the make up water. If your water district has recently started using chloramines or increased the amount of chloramines in the supply, your RO/DI may not be filtering it out. I moved my tank to my home from my office, the new water district uses a ton of chloramines and I could not figure out why I was constantly getting burnt tips despite the exact same husbandry I used successfully for many years on my office tank. Once I installed a large chloramine carbon block on my RO/DI the issues resolved within 2 weeks. I know you haven't moved water districts, but perhaps your district has changed the amount of chloramines in the supply.

 

[JB NY]

Joe, this is a shot in the dark, but something else to consider is the make up water. If your water district has recently started using chloramines or increased the amount of chloramines in the supply, your RO/DI may not be filtering it out. I moved my tank to my home from my office, the new water district uses a ton of chloramines and I could not figure out why I was constantly getting burnt tips despite the exact same husbandry I used successfully for many years on my office tank. Once I installed a large chloramine carbon block on my RO/DI the issues resolved within 2 weeks. I know you haven't moved water districts, but perhaps your district has changed the amount of chloramines in the supply.

Thanks, I addressed my makeup water back in September with a new rodi unit.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24077036&postcount=215

I have since found out my cousin works for the water authority, in the water treatment department. He assured me their are no chloramines in my water supply.

 

[acesq]

Thanks, I addressed my makeup water back in September with a new rodi unit.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24077036&postcount=215

I have since found out my cousin works for the water authority, in the water treatment department. He assured me their are no chloramines in my water supply.

You've got supply water quality covered. I'm sure everything will turn around for you soon, you know this hobby too well.

 

[biggles]

Reading through your 'notes' i reckon the rock is the only logical thing Joe. I hate the place you're in as it's excruciatingly frustrating to stand by and watch damage occur when you know everything is right with the water. The new lights would have shown up obvious distress signs within a week or two so i'm with you, it's not that.

Something is in the water that shouldn't be imo from the damage and recovery cycle. If you run carbon 24/7 and this has been going on for weeks then whatever it is it isn't an isolated contaminant or the carbon would likely have helped things by now. It sounds a lot like something is continually leaching into the water and some acros are taking it harder than others which is often the case as you know.

I know you know what you're doing Joe but i'd be doing a couple of 15-20% (decent) water changes a few days apart and running carbon 24/7 and changing it out weekly for a month. Something is in the rock that took a few weeks to overwhelm the carbon you run or to reach a level that's toxic to the less tolerant corals you have if you aren't running carbon.

Removing the new rock was the only logical thing to do mate :thumbsup:

The hard part is hanging tough for the next month as things can still keep showing new damage for weeks even though you've caught the problem i hope.

Maybe lower your halide times and give the corals a lot more T5 only time for a week to give the most stressed a less intense day time period, i always drop the halide times when i spike alk etc and the acro tips are fragile and i won't hurt them even if it doesn't help.

Don't mean to tell you what to do mate, just reminding you of obvious things that might help that aren't so obvious at times like this when you're second guessing yourself

Good luck Joe, i hope things start to turn around over the next few weeks :beer:

 

[jackson6745]

Picked up new test kits. Alk was the same at 7.7, Ca at 450, but my Mg was 1500+ in line with the triton test, not my old Salifert test kit. Does anyone know of long term problems with SPS if the Mg is kept elevated (1500+) for long periods of time? I have been dumping Magnesium in the tank for some time to keep it at what I thought was 1400, but now it looks like I had it much higher as even my triton test from back in June had the Mg about 150ppm higher than I was testing.

Are you using Kent MG supplement?

 

[JB NY]

Reading through your 'notes' i reckon the rock is the only logical thing Joe. I hate the place you're in as it's excruciatingly frustrating to stand by and watch damage occur when you know everything is right with the water. The new lights would have shown up obvious distress signs within a week or two so i'm with you, it's not that.

Something is in the water that shouldn't be imo from the damage and recovery cycle. If you run carbon 24/7 and this has been going on for weeks then whatever it is it isn't an isolated contaminant or the carbon would likely have helped things by now. It sounds a lot like something is continually leaching into the water and some acros are taking it harder than others which is often the case as you know.

I know you know what you're doing Joe but i'd be doing a couple of 15-20% (decent) water changes a few days apart and running carbon 24/7 and changing it out weekly for a month. Something is in the rock that took a few weeks to overwhelm the carbon you run or to reach a level that's toxic to the less tolerant corals you have if you aren't running carbon.

Removing the new rock was the only logical thing to do mate :thumbsup:

The hard part is hanging tough for the next month as things can still keep showing new damage for weeks even though you've caught the problem i hope.

Maybe lower your halide times and give the corals a lot more T5 only time for a week to give the most stressed a less intense day time period, i always drop the halide times when i spike alk etc and the acro tips are fragile and i won't hurt them even if it doesn't help.

Don't mean to tell you what to do mate, just reminding you of obvious things that might help that aren't so obvious at times like this when you're second guessing yourself

Good luck Joe, i hope things start to turn around over the next few weeks :beer:

Hi Andrew,

I am grateful for any thoughts or suggestions. While I think I know what I am doing, my results speak otherwise for right now. So anything you or anyone else wants to bring up is fine with me.

I did a water change two days ago, I am set for another one tonight, and plan on doing a 3-4 more over the next week, each one is about 10-15%. Hopefully that will get things back on track.

As for carbon, I am not and have not been using it much at all this past year. In my head I keep feeling that every time I am using it now I start to have problems with the tank, which makes no sense since the whole point of using carbon is to remove things that shouldn't be in the water.

(example) aug 30th Carbon, Sept 15 SPS tip burning. Nov 12th Carbon, Nov 18th SPS lighten in color around coralite edge, Dec 8th Carbon, December 22 SPS tip burning. The last time I swapped carbon in the tank on Dec 24th with the thought that I'll just clean up the tank and deal with the aftermath later but I was getting so many corals that started to lighten in color and recede that I pulled the carbon out a few day later. I am only using 2 cups of carbon for 375 gallons. No rox carbon.

The problems with the carbon in my head don't make sense which is why I keep pushing it off as not connected. I had been using ozone on the tank 6 hours a day at low levels for water clarity and turned that off in September because I was getting poor growth in my chaeto and felt that the ozone could be the cause. So in my head I don't think that the carbon could be clearing up the water so much to cause bleaching but maybe it is. I think one of the problems is that I have been having issues so much this past year that it is making me questions everything I am doing. So really any idea you or anyone else have is fine by me.

Good idea on the MH. I will lower the time they are on a bit to see if that helps at all.

 

[JB NY]

Are you using Kent MG supplement?

I'm not, just magnesium chloride and sulfide, in a 10:1 ratio.

 

[jackson6745]

Joe, let me throw an idea out there Hearing of your problems running carbon keep leading me to the same conclusion that I was thinking.... You are overdoing it. You don't have a nutrient loaded DSB like your old 180 leaching nutrient into your system (a good thing in this case), and that arid is very effective at removing nutrient, too effective when you team it up with a giant beckett skimmer.

My corrective measure would be to remove the arid completely from the system, skim a little drier, reduce the amount of water changes, and start dosing an amino additive. I would also run the alk no higher than 8 DKH. Try not to panic over nutrient numbers. Pretty sure this would fix your problem.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

Joe, hang in there. I am sure you will get through this rough patch soon. Unfortunately, these curveballs are part of the game, even for us veterans. I started my new tank a few months ago and had to endure a bacterial bloom and an outbreak of diatoms. Granted, those are fairly common for a new tank but they are frustrating. I even had something similar happen to me regarding RTN on a couple of frags. Overnight I noticed some burnt tips and bleaching where the frags encrusted on to the rocks. Parameters were good and stable so it was a head scratcher. If only SPS could talk!!

If SPS could talk, the complaints would never end! :lolspin: (women as well)


jk!

 

[JB NY]

Joe, let me throw an idea out there Hearing of your problems running carbon keep leading me to the same conclusion that I was thinking.... You are overdoing it. You don't have a nutrient loaded DSB like your old 180 leaching nutrient into your system (a good thing in this case), and that arid is very effective at removing nutrient, too effective when you team it up with a giant beckett skimmer.

My corrective measure would be to remove the arid completely from the system, skim a little drier, reduce the amount of water changes, and start dosing an amino additive. I would also run the alk no higher than 8 DKH. Try not to panic over nutrient numbers. Pretty sure this would fix your problem.

I think that is a good idea Richard.

I have thought about this once in a while but generally dismissed it because I have N at 7ppm and PO4 at 0.02, so I felt that I had some nutrients in the tank. I also felt like I'm really not doing anything crazy to reduce nutrients. Skimmer runs, have the algae reactor and I do water changes every two to three weeks, that's pretty much it. Also, I HAVE to clean my glass every 3 days or the glass has a very heavy green haze on it. This has always led be to believe that I was not nutrient deficient.

But reading your post made me think about my setup and maybe you are right. Here are a few points that I have thought about in favor of maybe too much nutrient removal on the tank.

1) I have to dose Nitrates to keep the tank with some N.
2) Over the last few months the amount of chaeto that grows in my ARID reactor is down dramatically, at present it hardly grows at all.
3) I have been slowly raising my light fixture higher and higher, it is presently about 12" off the water line. 12" is the highest I have ever had my light fixture, yet I still burn the tips on acros mostly at the top of my tank. Frags lower in the tank are affected little or not at all.

Lastly, I have a frag tank in the basement that is plumbed into the main system. Water would flow from the DT down to a small sump with some filter socks, from there it goes to the frag tank, then to the main sump with the skimmer and the ARID reactor. For the past year, I have been having a horrible time with algae only in the frag tank, grows like a forest in the frag tank. In the frag tank I have no fish, only snails. Every 3-4 weeks, I would pull all the frags out and scrub the tank of the algae, but it would always grow back like a weed. Finally one day it dawns on me that the frag tank is the last section BEFORE the skimmer and ARID. In the sump the water is being recirculated many times before it goes to the main tank as the flow in the skimmer and ARID is much higher than the flow up to the DT. So the water going to the DT is super clean, but the water going into the frag tank is all the runoff from the DT so it is super dirty, hence the algae farm. About 2 months ago I finally figured this out and changed the flow to my frag tank so that the water now goes from the DT to the sump, then from the ARID directly into the frag tank. The algae has almost completely died off in the frag tank now. Yesterday during the water change I siphoned out a little in the frag tank and it was remarkably clear of algae, where just 2 months earlier it was literally a forest in there.

So, taking your advice, last night I shut off the lights to the ARID and turned off the Nitrate doser, I'll monitor the water carefully to see what changes occur. I skim pretty dry right now, and I have been dosing AA for years.

 

[jackson6745]

If you're getting a green haze every few days it certainly sounds like you have enough po4, but having to dose nitrates does show that your filtration is effective. Interesting story about the reactor and frag tank algae. Shows how well the arid works in eliminating eliminating problem algae, but that makes me question if it limits the zoox within the SPS? Perhaps this is what makes your SPS sensitive to carbon change and subsequent spikes in lighting intensity. This is the reason why I think your problem is the arid, used in conjunction with everything else. Or is the problem the skimmer? LOL Leave the arid and toss the skimmer Just kidding but you get my point. Keep us posted Joe. I hope this fixes your problems.

 

[maxxII]

I wound up having to remove my skimmer just to keep PO4 to a detectable and necessary level. The ARID reactor is no joke. That thing works.