Just when you think you've heard it all
- Thread starter MarinaP
- Start date
Assuming they dont know the parents, I suppose we'll need a name for such specimens. Maybe generic names like:
ORA Circus Clowns?
ORA Rodeo Clowns?
ORA Catch-All Clowns?
ORA Grab Bag Clowns?
ORA Who's Your Daddy Clowns?
Not really a fan of letting such things loose in the hobby, but we are well down the road of designer clowns already. I suppose I'll need to get with the times.
ORA Circus Clowns?
ORA Rodeo Clowns?
ORA Catch-All Clowns?
ORA Grab Bag Clowns?
ORA Who's Your Daddy Clowns?
Not really a fan of letting such things loose in the hobby, but we are well down the road of designer clowns already. I suppose I'll need to get with the times.
deangelr
Clown Whisperererer
I am really lost on why there is such detest for designer clowns.. They reduce pressure on collection of wild clowns. They allow hobbyists to acquire a unique looking pair at an affordable price. The ideas that ther geneteics are somehow "weaker" are just bombastic statements with no substantiating evidence. And, I think some of the specimens are downright gorgeous to look at.
I don't really see this as a threat to the preservation of the different species of clowns. There will always be those trying to produce the healthiest holotype fish they can.
What am I missing here?
I don't really see this as a threat to the preservation of the different species of clowns. There will always be those trying to produce the healthiest holotype fish they can.
What am I missing here?
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
Not to derail this thread, but dogs are bred to conform or improve upon breed characteristics. In some cases these characteristics are not physically apparent - for example some working dog lines that specifically emphasize intelligence and disposition over appearance. Dogs have been domesticated for so long that there remains confusion about what the first "real" dog looked like or where he/she came from.
Personally, I don't prefer the look of hybrids or designer clowns. But I know where ORA is coming from - misbars are easier to produce than wild holotypes, so if you can sell a flawed offspring as "special" and get a premium for it, why not? Sadly it is one reason why I don't think the market for wild caught clowns is going to diminish any time soon.
anglr
anglr
Captive Bred Clowns to me are fish that kept true to the WC clown. They should look the same. No differences
Designer clowns are Captive bred clowns that have been strategically chosen for their odd barring patterns and bred together to produce more clowns with the same pattern or more. If you take the babies of them that have even more white barring and breed them together you are going to get more white. Keep doing it and at some point you come up with a fish has no orange and is completely white or completly black.
Did you know its easier to breed mis barred fish then it is to breed healthy fish? The lesser the quality of water the more of a chance for mis bars.
The price of these fish though doesnt reflect that, they actually cost more.
These DD fish to me dont look like a regular percula/ocellaris but to call it a hybrid is crazy, They def look like percula or ocellaris but they dont know for sure.
I dont have a problem with designer clowns, i have a problem with the marketing and pricing of them. ORA is a business and is not in the business of conservation. Conservation is a by product of their business. I dont blame them for doing since they need to keep the business going.
The problem in the hobby now is people giving names to things to make them sound more appealing and pricey. Sunburst BTA, Platinum clowns. This is all marketing, Hybrid piebald tang.
ORA has effectively managed to make designer clowns more common known then regular clowns. No one wants their bread and butter run of the mill clowns and to keep the price of the designer clowns high they have to limit demand.
This now leads to more collectors and divers catching more WC clowns to find that CASH COW that will have an abberant pattern or a cool striping. It also means ORA has to keep toping itself with newer and cooler designer clowns.
anglr
Captive Bred Clowns to me are fish that kept true to the WC clown. They should look the same. No differences
Designer clowns are Captive bred clowns that have been strategically chosen for their odd barring patterns and bred together to produce more clowns with the same pattern or more. If you take the babies of them that have even more white barring and breed them together you are going to get more white. Keep doing it and at some point you come up with a fish has no orange and is completely white or completly black.
Did you know its easier to breed mis barred fish then it is to breed healthy fish? The lesser the quality of water the more of a chance for mis bars.
The price of these fish though doesnt reflect that, they actually cost more.
These DD fish to me dont look like a regular percula/ocellaris but to call it a hybrid is crazy, They def look like percula or ocellaris but they dont know for sure.
I dont have a problem with designer clowns, i have a problem with the marketing and pricing of them. ORA is a business and is not in the business of conservation. Conservation is a by product of their business. I dont blame them for doing since they need to keep the business going.
The problem in the hobby now is people giving names to things to make them sound more appealing and pricey. Sunburst BTA, Platinum clowns. This is all marketing, Hybrid piebald tang.
ORA has effectively managed to make designer clowns more common known then regular clowns. No one wants their bread and butter run of the mill clowns and to keep the price of the designer clowns high they have to limit demand.
This now leads to more collectors and divers catching more WC clowns to find that CASH COW that will have an abberant pattern or a cool striping. It also means ORA has to keep toping itself with newer and cooler designer clowns.
BonsaiNut
Premium Member
Yeah, I agree. I think that is the importance of having standards. When you say "A. percula" you should get a perfect holotype. When you say A. percula var. lightning (or whatever) people should know they are getting a variety that will differ from the holotype but will still fit the variety standard.
A similar thing is happening with dogs, and one of the reasons why the AKC is so important (even though I am not the biggest fan of the AKC). People crossbreed any kind of dog with any other kind of dog and think they have a new "designer" breed. Cocker-doodle, etc. I have seen so many people walking around with mutts with fancy designer names. Any cross-bred dog that doesn't meet a breed standard can't (or shouldn't) use the breed name.
deangelr
Clown Whisperererer
If they are out searching for abberant color patterns then they are leaving the holotypes alone becasue they wont sell as well. I see this as reducing pressure to collect wild clowns.
velvetelvis
Active member
The "designer" and hybrid clowns don't really bother me, they just don't particularly appeal to the purist snob in me. But as long as ORA and other breeders are selling healthy, well-formed fish and not would-be culls, I'm OK with hybrids and misbars and whatnot.
ORA is tapping into is the unquenchable human thirst for novelty. If producing more and more unique, exotic-looking captive-bred fish can help fulfill that thirst for novelty and thus avoid depleting wild clownfish populations, I'm all for the practice--even if I might not buy any of the novelty fish myself.
ORA is tapping into is the unquenchable human thirst for novelty. If producing more and more unique, exotic-looking captive-bred fish can help fulfill that thirst for novelty and thus avoid depleting wild clownfish populations, I'm all for the practice--even if I might not buy any of the novelty fish myself.
My thing is this, if these fish came as an accident how many small hybrids have they sold on accident to people who have gone on to breed accidental hybrids..
its irresponsible to muddy up the cb gene pool.. since it was an accident.. I hope they put practices in place to make sure people get exactly what they paid for.
if everyone breeds like this and sells mixed up fish.. unknowingly how long before we just have no clue what we have..
I am not against hybridization, just against irresponsible breeders.
its irresponsible to muddy up the cb gene pool.. since it was an accident.. I hope they put practices in place to make sure people get exactly what they paid for.
if everyone breeds like this and sells mixed up fish.. unknowingly how long before we just have no clue what we have..
I am not against hybridization, just against irresponsible breeders.
deangelr
Clown Whisperererer
from the article.. It looked like more than one pair..
Nice timing on their part.. Release of the article... Now they are selling those hybribs for a premium $$..
deangelr
Clown Whisperererer
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=126941
I like her... Sort of looks like a Marron shape but Ocellaris colors..
I like her... Sort of looks like a Marron shape but Ocellaris colors..
obet_carlos
Member
is there a name for the tomato/clarki clown hybrid? i think i have one that's wildcaught..
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