jynxtrix's Forcibly Propogated Haddoni Anemone

[jynxtrix]

Alright, Since it has been pushed and pushed, and I'm tired of this subject thread jacking another person's thread, despite attempts to change the subject back to the original topic, I have started my own.
I'm not particularly sure if I really wanna do this (plus I hate having to host photos)'
Now, that being said, If you come to look, cool, if you come to post ideas and suggestions, or provide insight, even better, but if all you can do is criticize, please, go start your own thread and complain there. All others, please enjoy.

Here's what I started with, this was about 4 months ago.



and another picture for reference


when I purchased it, It was shoved in a 29 gallon biocube with pretty much no space to move. the owner had to separate it because it ate everything it could reach. The photos don't do justice to it's size, when it was hungry, it would lay relatively flat and was easily over 14 inches across, however, I did not realize that when I purchased it because it didn't have space to fully open inside the biocube.

Now, I don't have photo's of me cutting it, as my hands were a little full, but basically all I did was split it down the middle with a freshly sharpened butcher knife. I rinsed it, gave it a dip, and returned it to my tank in these breeder nets. The lights were kept relatively low for the first few days so as not to shock them by putting them so much closer to my light fixtures. they basically looked like this for the first week and a half.



here it is the larger one 30 days after being cut



And here is the smaller one 30 days after it was cut



I haven't taken any more of the larger one, but here's a cell phone pic of the smaller one about week and a half to 2 weeks ago.



As you can see, they seem to like to hold themselves in that tulip shape while healing. The smaller one is only slightly smaller, but because it wasn't an even cut, it has slowed down healing considerably.

I will post current pics this evening if I can, but the larger one has healed and is growing new material to fill in the piece that was cut out, the little one is still doing the tulip thing off and on, and was balling itself up and rolling around the tank from time to time. Due to concern for my other inhabitants, I could not continue to allow that to go on. As mentioned before, if you would like to participate in the discussion please do, I welcome any input. If you came to flame, then please, move on. What's done is done as far as these guys goes, and bad attitudes aren't gonna help me with the recovery in the least.

 

[garygb]

Are the haddonies eating yet? I would assume feeding them would be a good idea as soon as they will accept food. I hope those guys make it and eventually thrive for you. As I'm sure you've heard, with that species, fragging is a death sentence in significant percentage.

 

[jynxtrix]

picking up where we left off....

I would like to see this, since you offered. You have to understand that no one who has ever claimed to do what you are claiming has ever shared any evidence. They just say they have done it, and then disappear. Numerous people have tried, and as far as I know, the failure rate for those who are willing to admit it is 100%. There is no market for propagated S. haddonis - if it were as easy as you are suggesting, I would assume that there would be haddonis for sale all over the place. But I HOPE you have been successful and that perhaps you are doing something different from all the others. So share your methods and successes, and hopefully it will open new doors for the rest of us!

And just to be clear, this was NOT by any means easy. Taking out a knife and cutting it was easy, but it squirmed and I missed (so maybe it wasn't that easy after all). HOWEVER, all the care and attention it has required as far as feeding, lighting (and not over lighting it), current adjustment, and making it comfortable enough to continue healing have been far from easy. They have been time consuming, nerve wracking, and very frustrating at times.
Remember, I'm only a little over 2 months into this experiment, there is still plenty of room for disaster, and I am fully aware of this, but if this really is the only proof provided, then I think that bears a little room for some credit, and a little less heckling from the peanut galleries. And if any one has any doubts as to the viability of this thread, or these pictures, they should PM Chimone on this forum. He's seen my tank in person more than once and can vouch for what I'm doing.

 

[jynxtrix]

Are the haddonies eating yet? I would assume feeding them would be a good idea as soon as they will accept food. I hope those guys make it and eventually thrive for you. As I'm sure you've heard, with that species, fragging is a death sentence in significant percentage.

The large one feeds normally now. Because the small ones mouth is so tiny, I've been forced to resort to feeding it mysis shrimp every few days from a syringe. But all in all, they are coming along much better than the masses seem to think they were capable of.

 

[Toddrtrex]

...

the little one is still doing the tulip thing off and on, and was balling itself up and rolling around the tank from time to time. Due to concern for my other inhabitants, I could not continue to allow that to go on. ....

So what happened to the smaller one??

 

[jynxtrix]

So what happened to the smaller one??

I put it back in the breeder net at the top of the tank where the current isn't as strong, and decreased the number of hours a day I light the tank by about 30%. It's been being fed mysis shrimp for the last week and is doing fine, just healing more slowly because it's mouth is smaller, and it has less surface area to provide for photosynthesis. I suspect that even if my cuts had been perfectly in half, it would still been a long road to recovery, because these nem's just don't heal as quickly as their smaller cousins.

 

[Jamie1210]

very interesting...wondering how long you've had the original haddoni before you cut it?

 

[jynxtrix]

Something has also just occurred to me, and that is my lighting. during the majority of this I was running 2 10k t5ho's, and 2 red t5ho's (I can't remember the rating), until two weeks ago when I changed the red bulbs over to actinic's. I wonder if that may have had a slowing effect on the photosynthesis occurring within the anemone's zooxanthellaeand and zoochlorellae living within it and feeding it. I mean, if red bulbs encourage plant growth (of course through photosynthesis), then why would it not stand to reason it would have the same effect on the anemone? I think I'm going to go home and change the bulb closest to the nem back to red, perhaps this is the reason for my luck so far, seeing as how I doubt many marine aquarist's would use red t5's in their tanks.

 

[jynxtrix]

very interesting...wondering how long you've had the original haddoni before you cut it?

2 1/2 months, enough time for it to acclimate, get comfortable and eat several of my wife and I's favorite fish.

I must admit that my decision to propagate was quite less than honorable. Although I had actually been contemplating doing it for about 2 weeks, simply because of it's size, it was was coming home to find my cleaner wrasse hanging out of it's mouth (r.i.p. slinky) that made the decision final.

 

[jynxtrix]

Alright, So I came home and swapped my bulbs. Pardon the fact that the little nem is a little on the fluffy side, he always does that when the lights first come on.

Here's an overall of what the tanks setup is

Shot at 2012-02-15

Here's the little Nem

Shot at 2012-02-15

Shot at 2012-02-15

And here's the big nem

Shot at 2012-02-15

And here's a closeup of the area that is growing in to fill in what was cut out.

Shot at 2012-02-15

And a shot where my dopey clown isn't trying to defend it

Shot at 2012-02-15

I think two of the major things I probably did differently than most is the light
(I changed the light about 45 min ago, and he's already changing color and fluffing up more actively, so I'll keep everyone updated), and the fact that as soon as I felt they were ready (about a week), I started putting my clowns in with them so they could clean them and pick off any dead stuff.

I wish I had kept better track of all this. Had I known there would be so much fuss over it, I surely would have, lol.

 

[Toddrtrex]

Did they move to the rocks, or did you put them there? S. haddoni is a sandbed dwelling anemone.

 

[jynxtrix]

Todd, the large one put itself in a large hole in the rock. Originally that rock was on top of my sand bed, but I moved it up so that I could lay down some lace rock for foundation. I actually figured that he would detach and move lower, but he's been there for three weeks or so now with no signs of wanting to move.

 

[Chimone]

Hey so jynx, you figured out what you're doing with the little one? I know a 20 gallon that could use a nem....just sayin

Also I can attest to everything he is saying, Ive seen them in person. Growth on the big one is coming along nicely and looks to be doing very well.

 

[jynxtrix]

Hey so jynx, you figured out what you're doing with the little one? I know a 20 gallon that could use a nem....just sayin

Also I can attest to everything he is saying, Ive seen them in person. Growth on the big one is coming along nicely and looks to be doing very well.

Thanks for the chime in bro! As far as a new home, not until I see some growth like I'm seeing on the big one, but if this evening is any indication (and I don't wanna get cocky) the red lights are all the difference. "Fluffy" as I have dubbed him this evening is feeling much more active. Hopefully he settles down and starts using some of that energy to finish healing. I took my smallest clown (about an inch and a quarter) and put him back in with fluffy about 3 hours ago, and he has been kneading and cleaning him since. I don't know how the lighting possibility slipped my observation before, or the clowns devoted nature, but I think between the two, this is it. And if you are willing to keep up the experiment should this job drag me overseas then I'd be glad to turn him over to you, I just don't want him to go somewhere where he won't be appreciated, or where lack of care might prove this experiment a waste (I am after all a realist, and loathe proving pessimist's right, lol), if he's anything like his big brother, it'll be another month before he's ready to be called "healed" and I don't want the stress of a change in tanks to be the death of him. But, when I get him back on solid foods, and if your tank still has a home for him, you'll be the first to know.

 

[Chimone]

(I am after all a realist, and loathe proving pessimist's right, lol),

Dont take the interwebs too seriously. I've realized after ten years of forums that all it take is an opinion from someone with 10 billion forum posts and that opinion overtakes all common sense in the masses. Because someone couldn't accomplish something with their individual setup does not mean that it is now impossible and noone else should even attempt it.

Keep up the good work :smokin:

 

[stickleback]

A very interesting thread.

hope it all works out, will be watching closely

 

[phender]

FWIW, in plant culture red light is used to encourage blooming, blue light is used to encourage growth.
It is interesting that your anemones seem to be reacting positively to your red lights since red light is usually not considered as important in marine tanks.

From what it looks like your carpets didn't "complete the circle" with the cut edges healing together like BTAs do, but the cut edges have healed giving a healed anemone half circle. Is that correct?

Just to give you a heads up, when I cut my carpet (mertens, not haddoni) the piece that survived healed and grew for about 6 months and then sort of hit a plateau where it looked pretty good, but not 100% of what it was. It stayed that way for about a year, and then about 18 months after the cut it started going downhill and I couldn't save it.
Anemones are very slow to show when they are in trouble. Keep a close one on yours and make adjustments quickly because be the time you notice something is wrong it may already be too late.

Good luck.

 

[jynxtrix]

FWIW, in plant culture red light is used to encourage blooming, blue light is used to encourage growth.
It is interesting that your anemones seem to be reacting positively to your red lights since red light is usually not considered as important in marine tanks.

From what it looks like your carpets didn't "complete the circle" with the cut edges healing together like BTAs do, but the cut edges have healed giving a healed anemone half circle. Is that correct?

Just to give you a heads up, when I cut my carpet (mertens, not haddoni) the piece that survived healed and grew for about 6 months and then sort of hit a plateau where it looked pretty good, but not 100% of what it was. It stayed that way for about a year, and then about 18 months after the cut it started going downhill and I couldn't save it.
Anemones are very slow to show when they are in trouble. Keep a close one on yours and make adjustments quickly because be the time you notice something is wrong it may already be too late.

Good luck.

Well, like I tried to show in the picture of the larger one, it healed in the half circle shape first, during which time it held itself in that tulip shape seen in the pics, then started growing new material to bridge the gap between, the little one is lagging behind, but I'm happy with the progress so far, and will try to keep updates coming.

 

[bradleym]

Jynxtrix, thank you for putting this info up. If it goes well, good documentation will be very interesting and useful to many on this forum. And if it goes badly in a few months, it will be an invaluable lesson to those wanting to try it. It is evident that you are not going at this half-heartedly, so if it does not work out then your detailed updates will be essential in showing that it is not for lack of trying.

Either way this thread will likely be referenced several times in the future, so please spare us no details. Good luck.

 

[ousnakebyte]

Is the little one still in a bare-bottom tank? As pointed out earlier, haddoni is a sand-dwelling anemone. I'm wondering if you should give it a place to "feel more secure." As many on here know, I'm a big advocate of putting sand anemones (S. haddoni, LTAs) in capped PVC tubes filled partly with sand. Then you can keep them more easily in a bare bottom or shallow sand tank.

But, I also tend to subscribe to the, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mantra. So, opinions from anyone else? Would you favor getting the small one in some sort of sand bed (tank sand or pvc tube) or leave it be? Just wondering. Good luck with them.

Cheers
Mike