Kalkwasser: talk me out of stopping it

[tmz]

Not really.Two part(the balling method ) can do very well;many like it. There are differences though and I'd personally give the edge to kalk with 2 part in second place. But that is just one opinion.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

This is my approach. I've done this for my last three tanks (so, about 6 - 7 years) and I've found it to give me the maximum benefit (stable, correct parameters, very little chance of contamination or skewing salt ratios) for the minimum effort (nearly zero maintenance - except mixing a new Brute of kalk once a month and adjusting dosing rates every few months as indicated by testing for calcium and alkalinity).

1) Dose kalk with a peristaltic pump separate from auto topoff. The peristaltic pump is on a timer that lets me set the daily dose by adjusting the duration that it runs. It pulls from a Brute trashcan full of mixed kalk in the basement. Topoff for evap is straight RO/DI and is controlled by float switches. This separation of ATO and kalk allows me to adjust the addition of kalk independently from fluctuations in evaporation rate.

2) If/when demand for calcium and alkalinity are so high that I'm adding more kalk than I need to match evaporation, I dose 2-part. I like pretty sparse rockwork which means fewer calcifying inverts per gallon than many systems, so this rarely happens for me.

 

[Randrew215]

When I dosed kalk in my ato reservoir, I experienced far more precipitation onto pumps, powerheads, and tubing. I don't seem to have this problem with 2 part. In fairness, the ato pump fed from the very bottom of the reservoir, so this may have been a large contributor if kalk settled out there. Still, I equate 2 part with much greater ease of use.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

When I dosed kalk in my ato reservoir, I experienced far more precipitation onto pumps, powerheads, and tubing. I don't seem to have this problem with 2 part. In fairness, the ato pump fed from the very bottom of the reservoir, so this may have been a large contributor if kalk settled out there. Still, I equate 2 part with much greater ease of use.

but you have to compare apples with apples.
When using two part you STILL have to topoff for makeup water. So what could be easier than topping off with limewater? You're killing two birds with one stone- or (at the very least) making your system less dependent on dosing two part. Done correctly, you shouldn't have precip on pumps and powerheads due to kalk dosing.

 

[reefnut2012]

Ive been away from the hobby for about15 yrs. My last tank was 300 gal SPS and clam tank. I was very successful with just Kalk. What exactly is the 2 part recipe I've read about? I am getting ready to start a build and am trying to get caught up on the latest in the hobby. Thanks

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Ive been away from the hobby for about15 yrs. My last tank was 300 gal SPS and clam tank. I was very successful with just Kalk. What exactly is the 2 part recipe I've read about? I am getting ready to start a build and am trying to get caught up on the latest in the hobby. Thanks

Here's a link to an article regarding choosing a calcium/alkalinity supplementation method:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Here's an article on how to adjust calcium and alkalinity levels:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

 

[tmz]

Two part is calcium chloride for calcium and part 2 carbonate or bicarbonate( baking soda or soda ash) for the alkanity. Randy H. Farley, RCs contributing phd Harvard chemsitry guru created several recipes to enable folks to use generic elements in lieu of pricey commercial two part additives. Bulk Reef Supply adopted them with his permissio0n and sells a good line of generic products which can also be purchased elsewhere. It's worth noting that Randy uses only kalk( limewater ) on his personal tank.

Here are the recipes articles:

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

A Homemade Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Additive System
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...l2004/chem.htm

and some on limewater( aka klak/calcium hydroxide):

What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

The Self Purification of Limewater (Kalkwasser)
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2003/chem.htm

The Degradation of Limewater (Kalkwasser) in Air
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-0...ture/index.htm

 

[Southreef]

I used to swear by Kalk as it is simple, cheap, and like someone said, you've got to run top off water anyway so what the heck. I started experiencing problems with kalk sporadically meeting or not meeting the demands in my tank. What I mean by that is sometimes the evaporation and Alk/Ca demands would be in perfect harmony and this would allow me to smugly sit on my couch thinking about all the money I saved on peristaltic pumps and controllers etc... Then inevitably the seasons change and the air-conditioning doesn't keep the house so dry anymore... the water evaporates less and then bam, my alk is all out of whack. The seasonal evaporation differences coupled with growing demands was causing me to see very severe alk swings on a day to day basis by using solely kalk in ato. I don't even know what the PH roller coaster looked like because I only recently got a controller that allows me to chart everything... My salifert PH tests were anywhere from 7.5 to 8+ on any given day. The kalk solution to this is (previously posted) just running the kalk drip through a dedicated peristaltic pump and ato separately. Even with that method you still have to buy a lot of the equipment you would need to just run two part. After much reading and debating I decided to remove Kalkwasser from the system totally and started with an initial dose of 70ml of 2 part recipe #1 for my 90 sps heavy tank. The first few days I realized that 70 wasn't quite enough and after some revised math I've settled at 110 ML a day for each. After the initial dial in, the first two weeks of the 2 part have been rock solid PH/ALK and Calcium wise. I find that I don't stress as much about my ATO reservoir being empty or low because that won't skew my parameters as much as it would have in the past. At my current rate of usage on the 2 part I should only have to mix a fresh gallon jug about once every 30 days or so. This is super important to me to have this semi automated stability because I travel very frequently and need to be able to rely on something for more than 5 days at a time (this is how often I would have to refill my ATO depending on the season)

Each person will find what they are most comfortable with. I do like the kalk drip idea through a peristaltic pump with seperate ATO. Kalk is awesome and time tested and has grown fantastic reefs. Even with a healthy respect for kalk I have to say that I'm loving my 2 part so far! It makes it very easy to make fine adjustments to ALK/CA without fears of skyrocketing PH. Maybe I'll revisit kalk one day but like I said, I'm thrilled with the change to 2 part.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

for what it's worth

for what it's worth

I've been dosing kalk for 18+ years, started using 2 part (B-ionic) when it first came out about 15 years ago and added a calcium reator about 6 years ago. (For two part I now use BRS materials.) Plus I've done regular partial water changed since day one. Nothing is as simple as kalk. The added pH boost limewater provides can actually speed up growth rates (consumption) by corals (ie: increase demand). IMO/IME it all starts with kalkwasser. Other calcium and alk additions are calculated after kalk.

 

[tmz]

For me it's kalk first ,then a little baking soda with regular water changes. The kalk is not tied to an ato float switch and a fixed amount( 16 liters per day for 600gallons ) is dosed across the seasons. This approximates the median evaporation rate for my system. Variations in evaporation are handled with additional ro water to the sump with or without little extra baking soda. I don't need any calcium chloride as I do regular water changes with a high calcium /magnesium salt mix. I haven't used my calcium reactor in about 4 years.
It's the easiest process for me and I've tried the others.

As Gary notes , higher ph( ie 8.2 or better) helps calcification . Organisms take in HCO3,bicarbonate. They squeeze out the H proton to form CO3 which becomes part of their skeletal structure. That's easier to do with less H in the water as is the case at higher ph.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

For me it's kalk first ,then a little baking soda with regular water changes. The kalk is not tied to an ato float switch and a fixed amount( 16 liters per day for 600gallons ) is dosed across the seasons...

16 liters/day sound like a lot of kalk volume to be constantly mixing and keeping in solution. How do you practically keep it going? With that much volume, you'd need a 30g reservoir (IME). Do you ATO the water in your limewater vessel? Or let it drain down, rinse out the slurry on the bottom, and mix another batch? You (and others) sound convinced it's the best foundation, but it turns out to be a hassle for me logistically. I'd love to know how I can make it simple and automatic so that it's not such a turn-off.

 

[reefnut2012]

Kalk is so simple. You have to add top off water. Why not mix some lime with it and accomplish 2 things at once. When I first started doing it, I used Kalk as top off with a float switch in the sump. Ran it 24 hrs a day. No problems, no ph swings. I do not remember the parameters. I just remember the explosion in growth. Eventually as growth became exreme I do remember the calc/alk numbers starting to drop .I put a fan over the sump to increase evaporation. Its been along time but it seems it was about 2or 3gallons a day. I did use a 30 gal reservoir by the way.

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

16 liters/day sound like a lot of kalk volume to be constantly mixing and keeping in solution. How do you practically keep it going? With that much volume, you'd need a 30g reservoir (IME). Do you ATO the water in your limewater vessel? Or let it drain down, rinse out the slurry on the bottom, and mix another batch? You (and others) sound convinced it's the best foundation, but it turns out to be a hassle for me logistically. I'd love to know how I can make it simple and automatic so that it's not such a turn-off.

In my system I'm currently using less than Tom but, logistically, I'd imagine my approach would scale OK to that level.

I have a 30g Brute. I dump an entire 4.5 lb container of kalk (from BRS) in, then fill with water from my RO/DI storage tank. The fill pump is strong enough that the solution is mixed to saturation as it fills. I know it takes "X" days to use 30g so when I'm around that point I just flip the switch and fill it with fresh RO/DI again. I turn off the timer running the kalk dosing pump for about 8 hours after refilling to avoid the chance of dosing solids that haven't yet settled.

After several months of doing this (depends on usage - with my smaller tanks it was probably closer to a year), I write off any kalk powder remaining in the bottom of the bin, along with the settled precipitate, and dump it out in the driveway. Then I rinse the bin with a hose, and start over. I've got the bin positioned so it's easy to pull out (i.e. it's not hard plumbed in to anything, the fill and dosing plumbing is just soft tube entering through the top of the bin) so this rinse procedure is way easier than it sounds.

So, right now, about once a month I'm going into the basement and flipping the switch then standing there for 2 or 3 minutes as the bin fills. Then a few times a year I rinse the bin out and dump in a container of powder. I test for calcium and alkalinity maybe once or twice a month and tweak the dose rate as needed. That's it. It's one of the easiest things I do on my system, and I know pH, calcium, and alkalinity are all dead-on all the time.

 

[reefnut2012]

I mixed it in a 5 gallon bucket. 2 tablespoons per gallon. I used the 5 gallon bucket to keep the 30 gal trash can full. I used a small maxi jet powerhead connected to a float switch in the sump to top off.
I will be doing it the same way on this next build.

 

[jeremyjoslin]

So, right now, about once a month I'm going into the basement and flipping the switch then standing there for 2 or 3 minutes as the bin fills. Then a few times a year I rinse the bin out and dump in a container of powder. I test for calcium and alkalinity maybe once or twice a month and tweak the dose rate as needed. That's it. It's one of the easiest things I do on my system, and I know pH, calcium, and alkalinity are all dead-on all the time.

I'm sold...

But my ATO feeds live from my RO/DI (with multiple failsafes) so I'd need to create a RODI reservoir to do that AND my FSW mix bin.

Sheesh. Just when I thought I had everything planned out... someone shares their good idea and I realize I need to go back to the drawing board... Again.

 

[tmz]

16 liters/day sound like a lot of kalk volume to be constantly mixing and keeping in solution. How do you practically keep it going? With that much volume, you'd need a 30g reservoir (IME). Do you ATO the water in your limewater vessel? Or let it drain down, rinse out the slurry on the bottom, and mix another batch? You (and others) sound convinced it's the best foundation, but it turns out to be a hassle for me logistically. I'd love to know how I can make it simple and automatic so that it's not such a turn-off.

I use a 32 gallon brute garbage can with a lid. . I refill it every 6 days with ro water; then add scoops of kalk, a little more than 2 tsps per gallon; stir it in vigorously for 15 to 20 seconds with a length of pvc pipe. Any kalk above 2 tsps pr gallon just settles to the bottom.

The pump is turned off at the beginning of the refill and restarted after 2hours to allow everything to settle.

I do not clean the garbage can except once every 6 months or so; then I just scoop out some slurry and don't do any other cleaning .The precipitated slurry won't redissolve and just hangs out on the bottom of the can like sand.There is usually extra undissolved kalk in the slurry which gets remixed every refill.
The external pump(I use a peristaltic pump; some use diaphram pump) intake hose is an inch or so above the top of the slurry so nothing but the clear kalk waer is dosed.
As it restarts I check alk and add some extra baking soda in ro directly to the sump if I need it to make up for the 2 hour down time.
I could use a bigger container or plumb several cans together for a longer period of coverage but don't travel much and my son or other family members cover the aquariums when I need to be gone. The kalkwasser will not loose its strength if left still( without restirrng ) for a month or more in a covered ( not necessarily sealed )can.

 

[tmz]

I keep an ro reservoir ( a 32gallon brute with a float stopper ,it refills automatically from the ro/di unit. So , enough water for a remix is almost always on hand when I need it.
The pump I use(a liter meter 3 which I got used at a good price) allows me to preset the amount to be dosed over 24 hours in liters and then it automatically breaks it into 150 small increments evenly dispersed over 24 hours. some useteh bubble magnus pumps or the drew dosers from brs with multiposition timers.
As a reminder , it's important to spread out the dose so as to avoid dosing too much in any given hour and to avoid dosing undissolved kalk or slurry an external slow dose pump with timed increments works well and dose not cause any turbulence in the reservoir . The stillness obviously keeps the slurry on the bottom and the lack of surface agitation lessens CO2 entering the solution . A film of precipitant often forms at tthe waterline which also helps seal out CO2.

 

[tmz]

Found a picture:

 

[tmz]

The pump with a built in timer is on the shelf. The outlet tube runs about 10 feet to the sump where it flows in in 150 incremental squirts over 24 hours .It is about six inches over the water surface and enters into a high flow area.

 

[tmz]

Ps I don't use Reef Crystals but like the twist on lid so I keep the Coralife salt in that buckett for daily use.