Karim's 1500gal dream reef

karimwassef · May 25, 2017

New question: go tempered on the 3/4" viewing panels?

JonezNReef · May 25, 2017

karimwassef said:
New question: go tempered on the 3/4" viewing panels?

You would get adding strength with tempered glass but if the unthinkable happens and something hits the glass instead of a crack or chip with a chance of saving livestock. You end up with instant explosion of glass, water, and everything else inside flowing out.

karimwassef · May 26, 2017

I guess if it breaks tempered, it'll crack normal glass...

it would take an impact from something harder than tempered glass, like a diamond to "chip glass" but "destroy tempered".. that's a rare event

it's also more scratch resistant

but most ordinary materials would be softer.

here are some items that are made from tempered glass:

1. auto glass
2. glass shower walls
3. hockey rink glass
4. stair railings
5. table tops
6. smart phone screens
7. large commercial glass windows

I have the fear that the very rare event (or angry person with a diamond cutter) would wreck the tank... but if it's used in all these consumer, commercial and industrial applications - it should be a better option?

To be clear - this will increase the cost of the glass by 50% more! And technically, I'm not sure I need it. I'm considering it to increase my design margin (reduce risk).

JonezNReef · May 26, 2017

Sorry I was mainly pointing out like when my 65g cracked with non temped glass I ended up with a nice size crack down the back with a slow to moderate leak and I was able to move my fish and corals into some other tanks I had sitting around. While my friend had a 55g all temped that got hit and he ended up with shattered glass, water and everything on the floor instantly.

I realize your glass is quite a bit thicker and I also understand tempered glasses strength too. Also all the examples of commercial applications for the most part serve as a divider of viewing window with little pressure applied to the glass from one direction like it would get as a aquarium viewing panel. Which is why I always think of exploding glass but I was just pointing out a fear I have of tempered. I am sure that with the location of your tank this would be less possible since both mine and my friends tanks were in higher traffic areas of the house with kids running around.

That said the added strength tempered offers could help with the over all structural soundness of the entire tank and set up. Especially at the size of tank you are planning.

KeeganMonkey · May 26, 2017

Have you ever seen the diy fish king guy on YouTube? He is building a 2000 gallon aquarium similar to this!

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karimwassef · May 26, 2017

I reference his vids somewhere in this thread but he's building a concrete tank that's very deep with viewing panels. It's also fresh water for his rays and arrowana with relatively dim lighting. He's also way further north than TX which changes design options and constraints.

The size is comparable but other than that, we're in different worlds. Being in a greenhouse/conservatory with direct sunlight and massive air and water cooling loops underground is closer to an industrial or commercial indoor farm. My flow is also heavily weighted towards in tank loop circulation with some support from the outside loop. I also don't have a filter. The tank is open without mechanical filters or export. I use a settling filter instead and recycle the detritus into the fuge or solar scrubbers. I think he's using a high pressure sand filter (very different philosophies).

This hobby is awesome in the variability and diversity in philosophies, designs, applications, and implementations. He's got an awesome DIY build for his freshwater world and I have my poor but ambitious reefer's DIY shallow coral world.

He's also Canadian

j/k love the maple syrup.

Darthv247 · May 28, 2017

it's coming together nicely++++. I really like the design as u have it now. especially like the idea of the sealed channel leading to the sump.

karimwassef · May 28, 2017

Thanks. That's actually why I plan so far in advance. Just a few months ago, it was 8' x 6' x 18" and glass bottom with holes in the back wall.

Now I'm thinking of using tempered 3/4" and maybe going to the concrete slab as a bottom instead (just a thought)...

I would have been unhappy today if I had built my original concept 18 months ago...

skanderson · May 30, 2017

it does not take something harder than the glass to get it to blow. I am speaking from experience here. I walked into my vivarium glass while I had it open for cleaning. I hit it with my forehead and the 1/4 inch x 4 foot x 7 foot sheet exploded. there were little cubes of glass on the floor at about a 25 foot radius from the impact site. that being said when I have a tank built for me in the size range of the one you are making it will have tempered glass.

skanderson · May 30, 2017

a couple of pics to put it into perspective. first is showing the panel that I broke. although the original panel wasn't tempered and I broke that one and replaced it with the tempered piece.

cant find the after show on photobucket or my computer , sorry for the lead up.

karimwassef · May 30, 2017

are you saying that a hit from your forehead broke ordinary glass or tempered glass?

If it was tempered glass, something must have been really wrong. Even at 1/4", it shouldn't break with blunt force.

karimwassef · May 30, 2017

skanderson · May 31, 2017

I broke the plate glass by walking into it and it broke into big scary sharp pieces that luckily didn't fall onto me. I broke the tempered glass by walking into it head first and shattered it. I probably flexed it enough to push it into something sharp in the channel that it slides in. that being said I have also shattered a tempered shower door by pushing on it when the door got stuck. that was a bad moment looking down naked while standing in a pile of broken glass chips. I only got a small cut on my toe from that one. when I broke the vivarium glass I did have a small abrasion on my forehead where I hit the pane. ive seen the videos of people trying to smash tempered glass and how difficult it is to break, but I have personally shattered 2 pieces with my body in the last 30 years.

karimwassef · May 31, 2017

wow.. ok.. you are NOT coming to my house

LOL j/k

However, if I do go with the tempered glass, I will likely add a stainless steel guard along the edges and corners to protect them against sudden shock. These would be corner brackets or ribs that are siliconed over the edges to act as shock absorbers.

I think 3/4" tempered glass with a stainless steel and silicone edge/corner shield should be solid enough to stand up to normal and some rough use.

If I go that route, I'd like to go without the eurobrace since the combination of stainless steel channels and eurobrace can get complicated.

skanderson · May 31, 2017

I'm considering a tank from custom aquariums up here in Wisconsin that uses a build like that. the frame is anodized aluminum but you can get tempered 3/4 glass which is what I would want in a near 2000 gallon tank.

jccaclimber · May 31, 2017

It's entirely possible, especially on a large span with a thin sheet (like a shower door) to break a piece of glass without shoving it in to something sharp. You can get enough bending moment on a large sheet, especially if the support twists when loaded, to shatter it. That said, at that point a sheet of equivalent but non tempered glass would have already broken.

I like your comment about padding the corners/edges with something like silicon/steel. Probably not needed, but if it adds peace of mind, easy to do. Changes the look a bit, but also possible to reverse if needed.

karimwassef · May 31, 2017

A 12' x 27" pane would constitute a large span, but at 3/4" with a bottom support and side attachments, how much would the top bow out? without a eurobrace?

karimwassef · Jun 20, 2017

thinking of going in a different direction for flow

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2641351

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pZyZlndTMSQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

dave.m · Jun 21, 2017

Interesting concept. :thumbsup:

I'm not sure a vacuum cleaner's motor is designed for the sort of repeated stop/start action required, but perhaps an aquarium air pump might perform a similar action (plumbed in reverse, of course).

Dave.M

karimwassef · Jun 21, 2017

Actually, the heavy duty shop vacs are designed for repetitive use in workshop settings. The idea of moving large volumes of water through large apertures without pumps (or any large shear forces or mechanical force) is too appealing to let go

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