karimwassef
Active member
A shallow false floor - 1' only
Karim's 1500gal dream reef
- Thread starter karimwassef
- Start date
karimwassef
Active member
as we explore the cooling options, I wanted to share this vid for air cooling
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l4nMsHqCTeI?list=PLuTmAc3bBO0vQ4ZRSJo-YNseOGSMzqGF3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Prd3Pf1h4hQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Aa-D4mVydhw?list=PLuTmAc3bBO0vQ4ZRSJo-YNseOGSMzqGF3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/GCJOgwKKNcw?list=PLuTmAc3bBO0vQ4ZRSJo-YNseOGSMzqGF3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Cm6YnI6aWo4?list=PLcy06yyzNUXFcFHIVybq7kOE5qTKi790X" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/l4nMsHqCTeI?list=PLuTmAc3bBO0vQ4ZRSJo-YNseOGSMzqGF3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Prd3Pf1h4hQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Aa-D4mVydhw?list=PLuTmAc3bBO0vQ4ZRSJo-YNseOGSMzqGF3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/GCJOgwKKNcw?list=PLuTmAc3bBO0vQ4ZRSJo-YNseOGSMzqGF3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Cm6YnI6aWo4?list=PLcy06yyzNUXFcFHIVybq7kOE5qTKi790X" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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karimwassef
Active member
I went back and though about the trap doors. I think it makes sense in order to have more access to enter the gap.
The parts that would move take up a lot more room and leave little access for a human body. A trap door would make it easier to get under there.
The parts that would move take up a lot more room and leave little access for a human body. A trap door would make it easier to get under there.
karimwassef
Active member
the false floor is not that expensive and it's really to get the tank height right.
the raised U shaped platform is expensive because the actuators. They're each $170, so 4x = $680
https://www.harborfreight.com/500-lb-Capacity-Hydraulic-Table-Cart-60730.html
The real reason isn't access to the plumbing. It's to access the tank from above without ladders or platforms.
Working on my tank now is painful because I need to move from one side to the other and I haven't found a way to establish an all around platform without also obstructing the tank view from the side. Having a single platform that goes all around would make working so much easier. Given that the sides are 30' all around, it would take a lot of ladders or stools to replicate the convenience (assuming it works as planned).
I could use these lift jacks instead for $100 each,
https://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-capacity-transmission-jack-39178.html
but the difference between $400 and $680 ~ $280, so...
the raised U shaped platform is expensive because the actuators. They're each $170, so 4x = $680
https://www.harborfreight.com/500-lb-Capacity-Hydraulic-Table-Cart-60730.html
The real reason isn't access to the plumbing. It's to access the tank from above without ladders or platforms.
Working on my tank now is painful because I need to move from one side to the other and I haven't found a way to establish an all around platform without also obstructing the tank view from the side. Having a single platform that goes all around would make working so much easier. Given that the sides are 30' all around, it would take a lot of ladders or stools to replicate the convenience (assuming it works as planned).
I could use these lift jacks instead for $100 each,
https://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-capacity-transmission-jack-39178.html
but the difference between $400 and $680 ~ $280, so...
karimwassef
Active member
I'll probably try to find an electric motor to drive 4 of the cheaper lifts for <$280. I have concerns about calibrating the hydraulic lifts to move in unison, so.. the mechanical lift with a single motor driver might actually be better.
Funny thought - I'll need to make or find a gear box like a "transmission" to connect the 4 "transmission" lifts to a single low rpm high torque motor...
Funny thought - I'll need to make or find a gear box like a "transmission" to connect the 4 "transmission" lifts to a single low rpm high torque motor...
karimwassef
Active member
I've made a lot of changes in the last few weeks.. a cascade of changes really. I'll post more when I can.
thaitopher
New member
So this thread is 45 pages and not a single picture of the build yet? I might have to un follow.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
karimwassef
Active member
I tend to plan for a while before I build. My last started concept in 2011, "broke ground" in 2013 and came alive will corals in 2014.
But it's all in motion. We're selling this house and negotiating with builders on the new house.
This thread is my equivalent of a think tank. I feel that you can help me plan out a more successful tank than I can on my own- but I am a "deliberate" planner.
That said, any donations to accelerate the build are welcome. :lmao::lmao:
But it's all in motion. We're selling this house and negotiating with builders on the new house.
This thread is my equivalent of a think tank. I feel that you can help me plan out a more successful tank than I can on my own- but I am a "deliberate" planner.
That said, any donations to accelerate the build are welcome. :lmao::lmao:
It is quite nice to see the amount of brainstorming and invention you are doing, especially since you're not going for yet another big rectangle of glass or acrylic. I'm not sure how much I'd call this planning just yet though. 
Speaking of - what sort of overflow length and flow are you at right now? What depth of water over the weir are you expecting or shooting for?
Speaking of - what sort of overflow length and flow are you at right now? What depth of water over the weir are you expecting or shooting for?
karimwassef
Active member
I've got the glass quote and the sources for most of the materials... should count as planning? but ok 
The overflow is a double sided weir (mid-tank overflow box) that's 48" x 10" wide so that's the equivalent of an 8' weir against one tank side...
The overflow box is acrylic and sits inside a glass frame. The acrylic box can move up and down by 3" that effectively changes the water level in the DT.
At high tide, the water level will be 0.5-1" above the weir. At low tide or during a surge, it can be as much as 3".
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zps9zs1q7jd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zps9zs1q7jd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zps9zs1q7jd.jpg"/></a>
The overflow is a double sided weir (mid-tank overflow box) that's 48" x 10" wide so that's the equivalent of an 8' weir against one tank side...
The overflow box is acrylic and sits inside a glass frame. The acrylic box can move up and down by 3" that effectively changes the water level in the DT.
At high tide, the water level will be 0.5-1" above the weir. At low tide or during a surge, it can be as much as 3".
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Designs/0_zps9zs1q7jd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Designs/0_zps9zs1q7jd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 0_zps9zs1q7jd.jpg"/></a>
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karimwassef
Active member
ok. it's getting hard to describe everything using just pictures and text... so animation time:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BfWkIEBgwqQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
hope you enjoy
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BfWkIEBgwqQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
hope you enjoy
karimwassef
Active member
and the new floor and sump details
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WQMx3zMhoUg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I added supports under the moving platform and guiding rods at both ends of the U.
raising the tank improves the drop to the sump. The increased accessibility and straight drop to the plumbing in the floor allowed me to create a channel to the sump instead of relying on horizontal 2" PVC only to carry the flow to the sump. This was a major concern before this change.
I also terminated the buried cooling lips under the false floor.
Basically, once I decided to do it - it relieved the design stress on a bunch of other variables.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WQMx3zMhoUg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I added supports under the moving platform and guiding rods at both ends of the U.
raising the tank improves the drop to the sump. The increased accessibility and straight drop to the plumbing in the floor allowed me to create a channel to the sump instead of relying on horizontal 2" PVC only to carry the flow to the sump. This was a major concern before this change.
I also terminated the buried cooling lips under the false floor.
Basically, once I decided to do it - it relieved the design stress on a bunch of other variables.
karimwassef
Active member
and from other greenhouse reef cultivators:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DkIiE-IU70U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DkIiE-IU70U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I didn't realize you already had glass quotes and materials sources, I thought you were still making some design changes that might affect those pieces. Apologies!
The sealed acrylic overflow channel gives me concern from an inspection and maintenance standpoint. Two bulkheads and whatever fittings in between still seems like the better choice even if there is a horizontal run. Buuuut I'm lazy and fairly risk averse so.
The sealed acrylic overflow channel gives me concern from an inspection and maintenance standpoint. Two bulkheads and whatever fittings in between still seems like the better choice even if there is a horizontal run. Buuuut I'm lazy and fairly risk averse so.
karimwassef
Active member
I'm also lazy and somewhat risk averse too. The overflow box is actually attached via an unglued set of couplings to the PVC coming up from the floor. It has 3 adjustable length couplers too. So the whole overflow assembly can be removed by pulling it up.
It has a sealed air compartment that makes it float. It also has cables that are connected to actuators that allow it to move up and down.
In case of catastrophic failure, it'll sink and the minimum overflow set by the glass controls the tank level.
In case it fails high, the emergency overflow takes over.
It has a sealed air compartment that makes it float. It also has cables that are connected to actuators that allow it to move up and down.
In case of catastrophic failure, it'll sink and the minimum overflow set by the glass controls the tank level.
In case it fails high, the emergency overflow takes over.
karimwassef
Active member
oh.. you're talking about the overflow "channel" under the tank, not the overflow box... my mistake. I misunderstood.
I just think that a horizontal run of 2" pipe is an easy air bubble trap and I would have concerns starting up. Nothing as bad as overflows that don't flow...
The inside of pipes are also hard to inspect, you know. It will be clear and in the dark, so I should be able to see it. It's also not under pressure. It's at the same water pressure as the sump since it opens up into it.
I guess you can visualize it as a T extension of the sump. I'll take some better pictures of it.
I just think that a horizontal run of 2" pipe is an easy air bubble trap and I would have concerns starting up. Nothing as bad as overflows that don't flow...
The inside of pipes are also hard to inspect, you know.
It will be clear and in the dark, so I should be able to see it. It's also not under pressure. It's at the same water pressure as the sump since it opens up into it.I guess you can visualize it as a T extension of the sump. I'll take some better pictures of it.
karimwassef
Active member
Were the videos helpful?
Yes, videos were great! And I was indeed referring to the new channel under the tank that is part of the sump. I don't generally inspect the insides of my piping on a daily basis )) but I certainly look to see if there are any drips, salt creep or other signs of issues. For a lazy guy like me, I would probably not be interested in raising the false floor and getting into position to take a look under the tank at the various fittings and leak points. But those will all be there if you go with pipe too so it is maybe a null point!
)) but I certainly look to see if there are any drips, salt creep or other signs of issues. For a lazy guy like me, I would probably not be interested in raising the false floor and getting into position to take a look under the tank at the various fittings and leak points. But those will all be there if you go with pipe too so it is maybe a null point!
karimwassef
Active member
I consider it one more piece of plumbing. It's not even pressurized, just sealed. It's pressure is the same as the sump since it's open to it. I plan on using uni-seals instead of bulkheads wherever possible. Being an extension of the sump with a closed top just simplifies my flow.
Basically, I'm concerned that any elbow and horizontal length of 2" PVC will eventually become a flow bottleneck for this build. I'm even concerned about the 24" of straight down overflow. I'm seriously considering changing the emergency to 3" and then adding a surface adapter to 6". It will be ugly as sin, but that should absorb any issues very quickly.
That'll swallow an angel if needed...
I might even go with 3" overflows but keep the 2" adjustable length section to modify water level. The thinking is that once I drill the holes in the 1.5" wood-epoxy floor, that'll determine the maximum possible flow. If I drill 3", I can always reduce to 2". But going back to a full tank and drilling a 3" hole after the 2" is there is not viable.
I'm working to remove the bottlenecks one at a time so I can scale flow as needed going forward.
Basically, I'm concerned that any elbow and horizontal length of 2" PVC will eventually become a flow bottleneck for this build. I'm even concerned about the 24" of straight down overflow. I'm seriously considering changing the emergency to 3" and then adding a surface adapter to 6". It will be ugly as sin, but that should absorb any issues very quickly.
That'll swallow an angel if needed...
I might even go with 3" overflows but keep the 2" adjustable length section to modify water level. The thinking is that once I drill the holes in the 1.5" wood-epoxy floor, that'll determine the maximum possible flow. If I drill 3", I can always reduce to 2". But going back to a full tank and drilling a 3" hole after the 2" is there is not viable.
I'm working to remove the bottlenecks one at a time so I can scale flow as needed going forward.
