Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
we have some savvy folks in this neck of the woods. Anybody here ever use this stuff?
Lanthanum chloride
- Thread starter Gary Majchrzak
- Start date
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
I already know Randy's slant on Lanthanum, Tom 
Looking for real life experiences now.
Looking for real life experiences now.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
because I search RC extensively I know there's at least one URS member that's aware of Lanthanum's use in aquaria...
Last edited:
HighlandReefer
Team RC
Aquality Symposium - 1st International Symposium of Water Quality & Treatment in Zoos & Aquaria
Lanthanum chloride for PO4 removal:
http://aqualitysymposium.org/phpBB2...start=15&sid=a019c001bd90de0880f5a5f9f99e4994
Lanthanum chloride for PO4 removal:
http://aqualitysymposium.org/phpBB2...start=15&sid=a019c001bd90de0880f5a5f9f99e4994
drtango
New member
I've used it Gary (though you probably know that already, Obi-Wan)
I've tried P04 minus (from the makers of AZNO3) as well as "Phos-Free" from the pool store, a mix of lanthanum cloride and sulfate.
Best results were dripping via my top-off drum right before the skimmer intake--dropped Phosphate levels nicely, no ill effects noted over months, and more cost effective than GFO IMO. I do think the complexed phosphate is skimmable (skimmate looked different and stunk like sulfur) and the sump seemed like the best place to drip the stuff. Totally unscientific, but I read that Atlantis aquarium does something similar.
Since I can't leave well enough alone, I'm now playing with using saturated Kalk liberally spiked with Vinegar as my topoff, having taken my calcium reactor offline. The vinegar also acts as a carbon source, driving bacterial growth which is then skimmed out. I've kept nitrate and PO4 at undetectable levels for months with this method, realizing that doesn't mean much, but have noted dramatic improvement in the layer of crud on my REALLY old live rock, which to me means I'm way ahead in the battle with organics.
My take is that lanthanum is a fine way to drop phosphate to undetectable levels, especially by dripping right in front of a good skimmer set wet. Long term, have no idea what it might do to the tank but in my case noted no ill effects.
John
I've tried P04 minus (from the makers of AZNO3) as well as "Phos-Free" from the pool store, a mix of lanthanum cloride and sulfate.
Best results were dripping via my top-off drum right before the skimmer intake--dropped Phosphate levels nicely, no ill effects noted over months, and more cost effective than GFO IMO. I do think the complexed phosphate is skimmable (skimmate looked different and stunk like sulfur) and the sump seemed like the best place to drip the stuff. Totally unscientific, but I read that Atlantis aquarium does something similar.
Since I can't leave well enough alone, I'm now playing with using saturated Kalk liberally spiked with Vinegar as my topoff, having taken my calcium reactor offline. The vinegar also acts as a carbon source, driving bacterial growth which is then skimmed out. I've kept nitrate and PO4 at undetectable levels for months with this method, realizing that doesn't mean much, but have noted dramatic improvement in the layer of crud on my REALLY old live rock, which to me means I'm way ahead in the battle with organics.
My take is that lanthanum is a fine way to drop phosphate to undetectable levels, especially by dripping right in front of a good skimmer set wet. Long term, have no idea what it might do to the tank but in my case noted no ill effects.
John
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
thank you
Gary , Nice thread. I didn't know about lanthanum. Let me know if you use it and how it works for you. I'm not able to keep my phosphates under .15 lately. With a large system it requires a lot of gfo. I also feed well and have a substantial fish population and run a few refugia with chaetoprpha . I'm good on algae control but would like to do better for sps.Don't think I want to go back top carbon dosing.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
results are in: this works
reason I tried it: heavy feedings of fishes and anemones in an SPS reef aquarium result in high PO4 levels. GFO is an expense.
quick summary of the methodology I used: lanthanum chloride was diluted in RO water (5ml to 1 litre for treating roughly 300 gallons of water) then slow dripped into water to be treated as it enters a 10 micron filter sock (in place of a sand filter that is often used on larger systems). My protein skimmer also processed this treated water.
Lanthanum chloride acts as a flocculant and binds to phosphates upon contact. This stuff can clog a 10 micron bag in no time!
If you dose too fast or too much the water will get cloudy and sensitive Tangs will start breathing heavy. (Dose it really heavy and I've heard it can cloud up the surfaces of an aquarium.)
regrets: I don't have a way to test low range phosphates so results are based on anecdotal observations (for now. Wanna give it a try, Tom?)
results after one month (two treatments per week equaling eight treatments) SPS coloration, growth and polyp extension much improved. Algae eating Blenny getting skinny due to lack of food.
reason I tried it: heavy feedings of fishes and anemones in an SPS reef aquarium result in high PO4 levels. GFO is an expense.
quick summary of the methodology I used: lanthanum chloride was diluted in RO water (5ml to 1 litre for treating roughly 300 gallons of water) then slow dripped into water to be treated as it enters a 10 micron filter sock (in place of a sand filter that is often used on larger systems). My protein skimmer also processed this treated water.
Lanthanum chloride acts as a flocculant and binds to phosphates upon contact. This stuff can clog a 10 micron bag in no time!
If you dose too fast or too much the water will get cloudy and sensitive Tangs will start breathing heavy. (Dose it really heavy and I've heard it can cloud up the surfaces of an aquarium.)
regrets: I don't have a way to test low range phosphates so results are based on anecdotal observations (for now. Wanna give it a try, Tom?)
results after one month (two treatments per week equaling eight treatments) SPS coloration, growth and polyp extension much improved. Algae eating Blenny getting skinny due to lack of food.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
pool supply online. Seaklear (brand) phosphate remover.
Thanks for sharing that Gary. Sounds like you found a way to control the precipitant without a fancy sand filter.
I've got my phosphates down below .1 with gfo and an extra macro refugia. I feed a relatively large number of fish and corals well. As for trying lanthanum chloride, I'm a little worried about the lantanum that would go into the aquarium, since it's long term effects are unknown. But maybe , it's just an unrealistic worry and no more harmful than the bit of iron that you get with gfo. It would clearly be more economical and perhaps faster. Maybe I could set up some sort of experiment in another tank but I'm not that structured, Besides your experience and the litterature is pretty clear about it's effectiveness in removing orthophosphate so I don't think my test would add anything you don't already know except perhaps a few numbers regarding dosing levels which may already be out there.
BTW, how is your macroalgae responding? I find my chaeto slowed down a bit. I dosed a little chelated iron and it picked up .It's still growing at PO4 less than.1ppm but nusiance algae is gone.
There is a question we can look at though . When you reduce phosphates significantly? Which we have. What is the impact is if any on nitrate?
Most of the organisms( algaes, bacteria, even corals,etc) that consume nitrate consume phosphate as well. If they are limited by PO4 depletion will nitrate rise at least untill the biological filter adjust? Will any rise be significant enough to warrant the use of extra carbon, wet skimming ,purigen or extra RSDBs?Test kits for nitrate being what they are,largley variable makes it hard ti figure this out but it seems mine has gone up .
I've got my phosphates down below .1 with gfo and an extra macro refugia. I feed a relatively large number of fish and corals well. As for trying lanthanum chloride, I'm a little worried about the lantanum that would go into the aquarium, since it's long term effects are unknown. But maybe , it's just an unrealistic worry and no more harmful than the bit of iron that you get with gfo. It would clearly be more economical and perhaps faster. Maybe I could set up some sort of experiment in another tank but I'm not that structured, Besides your experience and the litterature is pretty clear about it's effectiveness in removing orthophosphate so I don't think my test would add anything you don't already know except perhaps a few numbers regarding dosing levels which may already be out there.
BTW, how is your macroalgae responding? I find my chaeto slowed down a bit. I dosed a little chelated iron and it picked up .It's still growing at PO4 less than.1ppm but nusiance algae is gone.
There is a question we can look at though . When you reduce phosphates significantly? Which we have. What is the impact is if any on nitrate?
Most of the organisms( algaes, bacteria, even corals,etc) that consume nitrate consume phosphate as well. If they are limited by PO4 depletion will nitrate rise at least untill the biological filter adjust? Will any rise be significant enough to warrant the use of extra carbon, wet skimming ,purigen or extra RSDBs?Test kits for nitrate being what they are,largley variable makes it hard ti figure this out but it seems mine has gone up .
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
it might be more difficult to find a 10 micron filter sock than some phosphate remover<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13632456#post13632456 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SkiFletch
Good to know. Will drop by my local on the way home
Tom- up to this point macroalgae growth seems unaffected during (ongoing) treatments. (I just yanked a bunch of it out of the 'fuge yesterday.)
I haven't been monitoring nitrates for quite some time now because they're usually negligible.
Gary, Just curious . What test kit are you using for nitrate and are you happy with it?. I get 0 or 5ppm from red sea and API and as much a 40ppm with salifert. Even more variation than with phosphate testing. Do you have an opinion or anecdotal information on nitrate meters?
I'm with you on going after phosphate since it's deleterious effects are worse than nitrate, in my opinion, but now I want to get a bit more precise on NO3 and truly know what it is and manage it to around 10ppm. I will be adding a second skimmer and another DSB soon but would really like to get reliable numbers. With a large variety of organisms in the system I'm searching for optimal nutrient levels.
I'm with you on going after phosphate since it's deleterious effects are worse than nitrate, in my opinion, but now I want to get a bit more precise on NO3 and truly know what it is and manage it to around 10ppm. I will be adding a second skimmer and another DSB soon but would really like to get reliable numbers. With a large variety of organisms in the system I'm searching for optimal nutrient levels.
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
I use the API nitrate test kit.
I don't know much about nitrate meters
I don't know much about nitrate meters
SkiFletch
New member
Picked up my Lanthanum on the way home. If anyone locally in amherst/buffalo want's to try this stuff for a couple bucks, lemme know, I've now got 2 liters of it which sounds like it may last me a lifetime... I'll start adding it to topoff water tonight on my nano and let everyone know how I get along. Not risking the main display just yet...
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