Lanthanum chloride

I'm using the same $5 10 micron mechanical filter sock now that I was using at the start of this thread. Extending the life of this filter doesn't interest me. Maximizing the treatment DOES interest me.

I'm not seeing how a reaction chamber is a benefit.
Introduce the LaCl3 just before the mechanical filter.
Maximum volume of water flow at point where Lacl3 is introduced would be optimal.
Reaction chamber restricts flow while creating a time delay for reaction.
Both are undesirable here.
 
I must dose at the sump. Dosing into a smaller volume of water inside a 5 micron filter will not yield the same result as dosing into my 1 liter reactor volume and then dumping into the 5 micron filter that resides in the sump on an hourly basis. I will only be dosing once per hour...Bubble Magus doser, which I already have in use, and will inject at the inlet of the high volume pump to the reactor (reverse flow) for large water treatment once per hour.
Rather than a smaller amount continuously as you reference inside a micron filter.

I don't understand why any delay inside a reactor should be an issue? The output will be filtered.

NOTE: The only water entering my 5 micron filter will be from the reactor. Just putting the filter in the sump will not yield much if any water flow thru it; I will not be placing a 5 micron filter on the flow into the sump...never!


Just a different approach to the end result!


So, if I just use the pump w/0 the reactor, I can achieve the same result? With inlet of pump connected to the LC line from my Bubble Magus, send the output to the 5 micron filter? Seems too easy. Will try that then if that is what most are doing.
 
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Gary Majchrzak said:
I'm not seeing how a reaction chamber is a benefit.
Introduce the LaCl3 just before the mechanical filter.
Maximum volume of water flow at point where Lacl3 is introduced would be optimal.
Reaction chamber restricts flow while creating a time delay for reaction.
Both are undesirable here.
Click to expand...


How does a reaction chamber create a time delay? the reaction occurs based on the available phosphate and amount of lanthanum - at the same rate regardless of where it happens.

if you are pushing water into a sock and adding lanthanum - the volume in the sock (dynamic as water is pushing through) has to react in the sock before it heads out (to prevent getting into the tank) - granted the reaction is quick - dumping in a sock provides no margin for the reaction.

If you react in a reactor then there is contact time for the reaction to occur (dependent on flow rate).

The benefits area debatable based on flow and amount added - though to say a reactor slows the reaction is incorrect.

I'm running a reactor at a friends house in the form of a skimmer with lanthanum injected through the op center of the skimmer (not the air intake - that doesn't last long) - the skimmer notable reduces the rate at which the 2 micron sock clogs.

just my 2 cents :)
 
ok, just spent my Christmas return money.
Got a Hanna Low Range PO4 Meter
32fl/oz Commercial SeakKlear PO4 Remover
15 10micron filter socks
BRS 1.1ml/min dose pump.

Going to set it up in my Neptune to dose 12 hours overnight. So 66ml of diluted (or 0.33ml SeaKlear) per hour. 12 hours in a day will be 3.96ml SeaKlear per day. Going to do this at night so I can change out the filter socks that morning. Will test and adjust accordingly. I am a crazy amount of hair algae right now so that might actually be giving me a low reading because it is uptaking it already. As I remove it though I might have to start or adjust some more.
 
tmz said:
I haven't really heard any benefits to using the confined space and relatively limited water volume of a reactor. I don't understand why some folks seem to prefer that method; if there are benefits I've oerlooked I'd sincerely like to hear them.
When I dosed LaCl to my system I dosed it with exposure to a lot of circulating tank water pre filter: into a drain; through a bottom up flow 32 gallon brute cryptic refugium; out over a sand bed; then through a well packed floss filter ;then into the sump ahead of the skimmer and return pump.
Even with all of that water exposure slow dosing was required to prevent post filter clouding.
I never cared much about any precipitant left behind but focused on keeping it out of the tanks and ensuring free lanthanum had a chance to precipitate before getting to the tank.
Click to expand...

I haven't read the entire thread, maybe I'm repeating, but...

The idea is that you put a smaller water volume through your mechanical filter so it's less maintenance.

The amount of water falling through a typical overflow into a sump might be what, 4-6x the tank volume per hour? You don't need that much flow to dose LC of course. There's a lot of "excess" water that isn't being treated. You only need a side stream of about 2-3x the tank volume passing through the dose point over the course of the treatment. If you dose continuously then you could be putting as much as 50x less water through your filter sock.
 
Gary Majchrzak said:
LaCl3 bonds instantaneously.
Click to expand...

I've read the same thing as posted by some of the reputable chemists on the forum. even if it happens very quickly - you still need the phosphate to react with - the small volume of water in a sock isn't the same as the larger volume of the reactor. how much of a difference - I have no idea - I do like the idea of having ample water with phosphate to react in, especially as the phosphate levels start to reduce.

From personal experience the 10 micron sock isn't always enough (especially not after being washed which decreases the rating). I'm moved to smaller micron bags and don't encourage using if phosphate is < 1 PPM. that's not to say you can't - just minimizing the risk of getting into the tank.
 
reactor vs. bulbus dosing

reactor vs. bulbus dosing

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/foiling-phosphate

The author notes that the reaction is instantaneous with phosphae present. This is why they don't recommend dosing in already low phosphate systems. It seems the use of a reactor is to limit this caveat of Lanthum chloride. Although I have never used lanthum chloride all of the articles I have read on the subject agree with Gary in regards to the use of a reactor; in that if phosphate levels are that low forgo the reactor and use other means of phosphate removal.
Rob
 
I've heard conflicting information on the speed of the reaction. Certainly the local concentration of lanthanum and phosphate and temperature change the kinetics. I would like to know how quickly it reacts under the conditions in our tanks.

If it is indeed less than a couple seconds then a reactor seems unnecessary. Regardless of the speed of the reaction it does seem to make sense to not drip LC into our overflows but rather into a dedicated side stream of water so that a finer filter sock can be employed and changed less often.
 
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I am thinking of dosing LC to address phosphate issues. My plan is to mix 2.5 ml of LC to 1 liter of RODI and drip them at the rate of 1 drop per second. Can I use an automatic doser to dose LC? I have a GHL doser which typically is set to x ml y times a day. How can I use this doser to drip 1 drop a second? Also this means that the pump is going to start and stop once every second. Is it ok to use a doser pump in this manner - that is a continuous dripping?
 
Dilute the lanthanum chloride with Ro/di water to suit the dosing rate of the pump.
 
I have roughly 280 gallons of net volume and I used 2.5 ml of LC with 1 liter RO/DI dripped into a 10 micron sock. I drained the entire solution in about 30 minutes. I do not see any flocculant in the sock even after about 12 hours. Any idea why? Did I dilute it too much?
 
aravindk said:
I have roughly 280 gallons of net volume and I used 2.5 ml of LC with 1 liter RO/DI dripped into a 10 micron sock. I drained the entire solution in about 30 minutes. I do not see any flocculant in the sock even after about 12 hours. Any idea why? Did I dilute it too much?
Click to expand...

What level of phosphate did you start with?
 
Gary, the 0.00 i got was before dripping the LC. Sorry for not being clear. Phosphate reading showed around 0.13 and 0.19 in the last few weeks. Sometimes I get 0.00 which leads me to believe that the phosphates are being consumed by algae. Yesterday before beginning the LC dosing, I tested and it showed 0.00. Now I don't have a reliable way to test for phosphates.

Should I go ahead and try another round of LC dosing, this time may be 5 ml per 1000 ml?
 
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