Texastravis
New member
Was thinking of a Prazipro and Cupramine mixed treatment during quarantine. That seems to cover most of the common parasites/diseases
Large fish order, need some advice on quarantining all of them.
- Thread starter Texastravis
- Start date
Not here to judge or argue, but from everything I've read about Achilles tangs they are a species of fish that absolutely requires a very mature tank if you want to have any chance of success with them.
The same goes for Moorish Idols as well. They're naturally a grazing fish that spend their time picking at the rock eating algae, sponges, etc. If you've ever seen them in the wild that's pretty much exclusively what you'd be observing them doing. It wouldn't really be advisable to consider adding one to anything but an extremely mature system especially when you consider their awful success rate in home aquariums.
When considering your stocking list (whatever you decide on in the end) I think it's important to consider just how important letting your tank mature is before adding too many things (especially more difficult species). I know it was something I was completely unaware of when I started out, but when I look at the growth on rocks that have been in my tank for 2+ years vs. ones there for several months vs. ones that are just curing in a brute trashcan. The progression just speaks for itself.
Psionicdragon
New member
QT in 300g and make it a fish only 
you would like it more than SPS.
you would like it more than SPS.
Todd,
IDK: if there is a problem with Amquel and Cupramine, it would be something in the cupramine, I've used Amquel with Coppersafe and Amquel with ionic copper, no problems there. There is also a new formulation called Amquel Plus. I do not have experience with that product and copper. The label does not indicate any problem except that it "reduces" organic dyes.
Jay
IDK: if there is a problem with Amquel and Cupramine, it would be something in the cupramine, I've used Amquel with Coppersafe and Amquel with ionic copper, no problems there. There is also a new formulation called Amquel Plus. I do not have experience with that product and copper. The label does not indicate any problem except that it "reduces" organic dyes.
Jay
The 4 Yellows are going to kill the Purple. That's almost guaranteed. They don't like each other and if you've never seen tangs tagteam on a kill you are about to. It's pretty cool. 
You have a new tank, you can't wait to stock it, this is understandable. I hypo QT all my new fish in a 50g and I have LR and sponges and UV - the whole shebang, yet I need to do bi-weekly water changes to keep up with the quality. Running six will drive you mad, you'll get lazy, fish will die. Its hard enough with one tank. Seven tangs is doable but you have to be smart about it. I only have 2 but plan on 1 or 2 more. Have 2 large angels and plan on a few more. Have a Niger trigger, Heni, bird warsse, 2 Foxfaces - these fish all get large but this list I'm building over many years (4 years now). I have lots of smaller fish like pygmy angels, cardinals, anthias, clowns and other things. Will probably have 40 when I consider it to be full which will be another 2-3 years. Slow and steady always wins this race.
You have a new tank, you can't wait to stock it, this is understandable. I hypo QT all my new fish in a 50g and I have LR and sponges and UV - the whole shebang, yet I need to do bi-weekly water changes to keep up with the quality. Running six will drive you mad, you'll get lazy, fish will die. Its hard enough with one tank. Seven tangs is doable but you have to be smart about it. I only have 2 but plan on 1 or 2 more. Have 2 large angels and plan on a few more. Have a Niger trigger, Heni, bird warsse, 2 Foxfaces - these fish all get large but this list I'm building over many years (4 years now). I have lots of smaller fish like pygmy angels, cardinals, anthias, clowns and other things. Will probably have 40 when I consider it to be full which will be another 2-3 years. Slow and steady always wins this race.
LargeAngels
Premium Member
Yes, the problem is Cupramine not Amquel. Cupramine is an excellent copper treatment, but it does react negatively with many water conditioners and meds. If I remember correctly the problem with the interaction is that the Cu+2 is reduced to Cu+ which is 10x more toxic.
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LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
Your new list is MUCH better. I still worry about the achilles. You might not have too much trouble waiting and adding it later. It's probably going to be larger than your yellow/purples, and there wont be any acanthurus tangs in there. So there will still be some aggression, but the yellows, purple, naso, and hippo are all in different genera which works to your advantage adding it later. If you wait on the achilles and make sure it is decent size, the first acanthurus, and use an eggcrate divider in the tank to socially acclimate, I dont think you are going to have a problem adding it in later.
I dont know why everyone is jumping on you as it seems like you are listening to advice... Obviously you are planning on QTing your fish after the last thread... and you cut down your fish list as well.
I dont know why everyone is jumping on you as it seems like you are listening to advice... Obviously you are planning on QTing your fish after the last thread... and you cut down your fish list as well.
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
Also, just make sure the QTs are cycled because we both know you wont be doing 50% water changes on all these tanks daily. Cupramine and prazipro will not harm the nitrifying bacteria, so once its cycled theres not much to worry about. You can probably even condense those QT tanks somewhat and put one or two of the smaller guys in with the lone hippo in the 55.
Texastravis
New member
Good idea having live rock during cupramine treatment? I have a lot of rock in big trash can in garage. I dont want to put the live rock in the QT though if the cupramine will ruin the rock.
Thanks
Thanks
SMOOTHIE
Premium Member
These fish need to constantly pick and graze in your tank just as they do in the wild. Starting off without the tank and rockwork being established is going to increase the stress levels of your fish. These fish are demanding on great water quality, so not only is mass aggression an issue, but so is the bioload they are going to create. What are you using for means of filtration?
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
Cupramine will kill live rock, not the bacteria on it but everything else. Thats why I recommended power filters with sponges. You want some bacterial colonies for filtration but nothing more. You can put some LR in the QT for a week or two to help seed the sponge in the filter, but remove it before treating (you want the fish to settle in from shipping and put on some weight before treatment anyway). Then set aside the LR and let it be fishless while youre QTing the fish incase it got exposed to anything
Just keep your LR in the QT permanently. I'm always adding new pieces. I have sponges in there too.
My QT setup:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15430571&postcount=779
My QT setup:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15430571&postcount=779
jmaneyapanda
Commencing hatred
To reaffirm a previously expressed point- adding any fish to uncycled QT tanks will cause a BIG problem. Prepare on 100% daily water changes, if you insist. Adding a LOT fo BIG fish is going to exasperate your problem. Ammonia kills more fish in QT than disease, IMO.
jnc914
Active member
:wavehand: +1
Pretty accurate post. I just read through the entire thread and it just seems like a recipe for disaster. There are alot of people in this thread with alot of experience telling the OP not to do this, yet it is seemingly falling on deaf ears. A serious overhaul of the OP's stocking list is needed. Patience is your best friend in this hobby.
For an SPS tank, personally, I would set it up and let it run for 4 to 6 months before really adding any fish, and then add them one at a time, and in smaller numbers. Our 1500 gallon reef only has three surgeonfish in it, and a few other tiny fish - the focus is on the corals after all.
jamenypanda - your wrote, "exasperate your problem" - did you mean "exacerbate"? Of course, your word works pretty well in this context, the problem is pretty exasperating (grin).
I did some quick calcuations - I had said to the OP that 100% water changes might be needed every 48 hours - I retract that, you're correct, it would take 100% per day (and NOT just two 50% changes a day) to control this, *and* keeping the ammonia level down articifically with water changes and/or Amquel will short-circuit the cycle and just drab things out longer....
Jay
jamenypanda - your wrote, "exasperate your problem" - did you mean "exacerbate"? Of course, your word works pretty well in this context, the problem is pretty exasperating (grin).
I did some quick calcuations - I had said to the OP that 100% water changes might be needed every 48 hours - I retract that, you're correct, it would take 100% per day (and NOT just two 50% changes a day) to control this, *and* keeping the ammonia level down articifically with water changes and/or Amquel will short-circuit the cycle and just drab things out longer....
Jay
Well, I don't know. I would have difficult choosing which word is more appropriate. :lmao:
small alien
The fungus is among us.
Gotta give the guy credit for hanging in there with this thread. A lot of folks just bow out when people tell them things they don't want to hear. Sounds like he may be inching slowly towards sanity.
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