lateral line disease
- Thread starter salty160
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DustyReefer
New member
If the fish has had a complete lack of algae in it's diet for an extended period of time it can cause HLLE, also if you dont rinse out your carbon well enough before adding it to your tank can also cause HLLE. Picture would be helpful in diagnosing, and since you just bought it I wouldn't assume right off the bat that its lateral line. Nori would help if it was, but tangs need algae in their diet anyways so unless you have an abundance of algae already in your tank you should be feeding nori or some other form of greens.
A good diet is a great start for preventing HLLE, but there are other factors as well. Make sure you have a grounding probe on the tank, I lost a semilarvatus butterfly early on in my fishkeeping life to stray current. Also, you want to be sure that the water quality is good, pH of at least 8.0, no ammonia or nitrite and reasonable nitrates <40.
Some folks will argue the nitrate ppm should be lower, I don't have any evidence to support one way or the other.
From my experience, I believe stress in general can be a factor. I have a potters angel and an Eibli angel, and the Eibli has a fair amount of HLLE. None of the other fish in the tank have this problem, and they get a pretty wide spread of food offerings, usually with vitachem, selcon and Angelixir added to the food, so I don't think it's an issue of diet. The tank is also grounded and my water quality is good and stable. That is why I think the stress of another Centropyge angel is causing the HLLE erosion in the Eibli.
Be sure the tang is getting the proper diet, no brine and very little meaty foods. This fish should be fed primarily nori/algae sheets and a good herbivore frozen food. Also, I know a lot of people swear by Selcon as an additive to help reverse HLLE.
Some folks will argue the nitrate ppm should be lower, I don't have any evidence to support one way or the other.
From my experience, I believe stress in general can be a factor. I have a potters angel and an Eibli angel, and the Eibli has a fair amount of HLLE. None of the other fish in the tank have this problem, and they get a pretty wide spread of food offerings, usually with vitachem, selcon and Angelixir added to the food, so I don't think it's an issue of diet. The tank is also grounded and my water quality is good and stable. That is why I think the stress of another Centropyge angel is causing the HLLE erosion in the Eibli.
Be sure the tang is getting the proper diet, no brine and very little meaty foods. This fish should be fed primarily nori/algae sheets and a good herbivore frozen food. Also, I know a lot of people swear by Selcon as an additive to help reverse HLLE.
DustyReefer
New member
Take the nori and wedge it under a rock or rubberband it to keep it secure in the tank.
Cause of HLLE: http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/hl...l-Line-Erosion-In-Saltwater-Aquarium-Fish.htm
Details of the study with controls for all other reasons formerly thought to be the causes for HLLE:
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found
Details of the study with controls for all other reasons formerly thought to be the causes for HLLE:
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found
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ingtar_shinowa
New member
Good food soaked in SELCON.
It appears that healthy food with vitamin supplements can help a lot, but once the systemic issues have set in, there also appears to be no known cure for this particular family of fish any way which seems to be more heavily affected.
This does tell me that I probably need to switch from carbon to ozone, it appears public aquariums have done this in mass years ago and have seen next to none of this issue.
This does tell me that I probably need to switch from carbon to ozone, it appears public aquariums have done this in mass years ago and have seen next to none of this issue.
thanks for the help, i cant believe I didnt notice it at the lfs! just went to the store bot some brown seaweed from Omega One, But I cant get my tang to eat he swims accross the tank probobly begging but he wont eat! p
I read fround wire could help, so i put in a floresent light from a dresh water tank, any opinion on that
I read fround wire could help, so i put in a floresent light from a dresh water tank, any opinion on that
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thanks for the help, i cant believe I didnt notice it at the lfs! just went to the store bot some brown seaweed from Omega One, But I cant get my tang to eat he swims accross the tank probobly begging but he wont eat! p
I have a noob questionis florecent light ground wire?
I am not sure I understand the question?
Not a fan of brine for this or really any other fish. If it is freshly hatch, and I mean freshly hatched brine, that's fine, but otherwise, no frozen brine as a main staple in the diet.
As for the grounding probe, it is an actual piece of metal that plugs into a grounded outlet. One end goes in the aquarium, and the other plugs into the grounded outlet. They are usually made of titanium and should run about 20 bucks. You need to be sure that the outlet is truly grounded and not just a three prong outlet, as is the case in some older houses.
As for the grounding probe, it is an actual piece of metal that plugs into a grounded outlet. One end goes in the aquarium, and the other plugs into the grounded outlet. They are usually made of titanium and should run about 20 bucks. You need to be sure that the outlet is truly grounded and not just a three prong outlet, as is the case in some older houses.
So absolutely get a grounding probe, but at this point stray current isn't the cause of the HLLE. Prior to the study I referenced, there was all kinds of conjecture about what caused it. It seem pretty clear there is something in carbon dust being released into the water that causes it.
Stray current is however the cause of dead aquarists and their fish, so also get GFCI plugs or circuit breakers. The fluorescent light would not be a ground probe, though it should be plugged into a grounded GFCI plug.
Brine shrimp are like Hostess Ding Dongs; I love them, but they give me almost zero nutritional value. I occasionally feed them to my fish because they love them, but I give them all kinds of different food most of which has some spiriluna in it as well as garlic. I am not sure how helpful the garlic is, but I like it, the fish seem to like it, and it seems to ward off the dreaded vampire octopus.
I also add Marine Formula two has all of it for just dropping in the tank.For anyone coming across this thread researching HLLE. The study did not go as far as to say exactly why the various grades of carbon cause the HLLE, only that some types caused significantly worse symtoms, but all seem to be permanent more or less. I found an addition study unrelated to the first on the production of those different types of carbon which shows the content differences based on the temperatures at which the carbon was produced. Several of those items we already know cause significant issues for marine life. It suggest that if you are going to use carbon, that you get the best available.
Here is the abstract and link for that study:
http://eprints.hec.gov.pk/6732/
Low cost agricultural waste material (Corncobs-CC) and fast growing wood (Paulownia tomentosa-PT Populus caspica-PC, Ailanthus allissima-AA, Salvadora oleoides.S0) and animal bones were utilized for the preparation of activated carbon. Industrial spent carbon was also regenerated. The carbon samples were activated chemically and by thermal means (400-1000°C). The samples were characterized by pH, moisture content, ash content, bulk density, surface area (BET, DR, BJH, Langmuir) with pore volume, MR, XRD, SEMI and EDS. The BET (m29'1) surface area analysis of the carbon samples activated at 800 °C showed that SO has greatest surface area of 587 m2g-1. The surface area of other carbon samples activated at 800 T was found in the sequence: 418 for SO > 412 for CC > 398.29 for PC > 387 for AA > 219 for PT > 140.23 for ABC. DR method was used for the determination of micropore volume using NOWWin2 computer software. For the 800'C activated carbon samples the pore volume was in the sequence: 0.23 for PC > 0.220 for SO, RG > 0.21 for CC > 0.20 for AA, 0.11 for PT > 0.100 for ABC. FTIR analysis showed that the carbon surface carried the oxygen containing functional groups, which disappeared at high activation temperatures. 'Mc XRD analysis using ORIGIN-50 computer software showed that carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, boron, chromium, fluorine, nitrogen and molybdenum were present in the carbon samples. The EDS analysis showed high carbon contents in the sample activated at high temperature as compared to Raw and 400 °C activated samples while the contents of oxygen was found to decrease with the increase in activation temperature. Other elements like sulfur, potassium, chlorine, silica, iron, magnesium, copper, phosphorus, sodium, calcium, aluminum and molybdenum were found in trace amounts.The rate of adsorption of dyes on the carbon samples was high in the initial fifteen seconds and then declined due to its diffusion in to the micropores. From the first order kinetics the rate constants were determined which were found to be high at high temperatures of adsorption /sample activation. The high activation energy of the dye adsorption on the Raw and 400 T activated carbon samples was due to the presence of polar functional groups at the pore openings that blocked the entrance of the dye molecules, thus raising the energy barrier. Negative values of entropy of activation (AS') of the dyes adsorption reflected the affinity of the dye molecules towards the carbon surface which were found to decrease with the increase in adsorption temperature. The dye molecules thus have acquired a more stable oriented position on the surfaces at high temperature of adsorption/ sample activation. The linear plots of Bangham and intraparticle diffusion models showed that the adsorption of dye on the carbon surface is a diffusion controlled process. The Freundlich, Langmuir and DR models were used to estimate the adsorption parameters. The best fit of the isotherms, found from the correlation coefficients (r2 ) were in the sequence: DR > Langmuir > Freundlich. Distribution coefficients of the dyes on the surfaces of carbon activated at different temperatures were found to be in the sequence: Dc1000oc > Dc900oc > Dc800oc > Dc600oc > Dc400oc> DcRAW .The industrial waste water was treated by column adsorption. Thomas model was used to derive the adsorption capacity (mot g'') of the carbon samples for the dye and also for Ni+2, Cu+2 and Zn+2 adsorption from the industrial waste water.
http://eprints.hec.gov.pk/6732/
Here is the abstract and link for that study:
http://eprints.hec.gov.pk/6732/
Low cost agricultural waste material (Corncobs-CC) and fast growing wood (Paulownia tomentosa-PT Populus caspica-PC, Ailanthus allissima-AA, Salvadora oleoides.S0) and animal bones were utilized for the preparation of activated carbon. Industrial spent carbon was also regenerated. The carbon samples were activated chemically and by thermal means (400-1000°C). The samples were characterized by pH, moisture content, ash content, bulk density, surface area (BET, DR, BJH, Langmuir) with pore volume, MR, XRD, SEMI and EDS. The BET (m29'1) surface area analysis of the carbon samples activated at 800 °C showed that SO has greatest surface area of 587 m2g-1. The surface area of other carbon samples activated at 800 T was found in the sequence: 418 for SO > 412 for CC > 398.29 for PC > 387 for AA > 219 for PT > 140.23 for ABC. DR method was used for the determination of micropore volume using NOWWin2 computer software. For the 800'C activated carbon samples the pore volume was in the sequence: 0.23 for PC > 0.220 for SO, RG > 0.21 for CC > 0.20 for AA, 0.11 for PT > 0.100 for ABC. FTIR analysis showed that the carbon surface carried the oxygen containing functional groups, which disappeared at high activation temperatures. 'Mc XRD analysis using ORIGIN-50 computer software showed that carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, boron, chromium, fluorine, nitrogen and molybdenum were present in the carbon samples. The EDS analysis showed high carbon contents in the sample activated at high temperature as compared to Raw and 400 °C activated samples while the contents of oxygen was found to decrease with the increase in activation temperature. Other elements like sulfur, potassium, chlorine, silica, iron, magnesium, copper, phosphorus, sodium, calcium, aluminum and molybdenum were found in trace amounts.The rate of adsorption of dyes on the carbon samples was high in the initial fifteen seconds and then declined due to its diffusion in to the micropores. From the first order kinetics the rate constants were determined which were found to be high at high temperatures of adsorption /sample activation. The high activation energy of the dye adsorption on the Raw and 400 T activated carbon samples was due to the presence of polar functional groups at the pore openings that blocked the entrance of the dye molecules, thus raising the energy barrier. Negative values of entropy of activation (AS') of the dyes adsorption reflected the affinity of the dye molecules towards the carbon surface which were found to decrease with the increase in adsorption temperature. The dye molecules thus have acquired a more stable oriented position on the surfaces at high temperature of adsorption/ sample activation. The linear plots of Bangham and intraparticle diffusion models showed that the adsorption of dye on the carbon surface is a diffusion controlled process. The Freundlich, Langmuir and DR models were used to estimate the adsorption parameters. The best fit of the isotherms, found from the correlation coefficients (r2 ) were in the sequence: DR > Langmuir > Freundlich. Distribution coefficients of the dyes on the surfaces of carbon activated at different temperatures were found to be in the sequence: Dc1000oc > Dc900oc > Dc800oc > Dc600oc > Dc400oc> DcRAW .The industrial waste water was treated by column adsorption. Thomas model was used to derive the adsorption capacity (mot g'') of the carbon samples for the dye and also for Ni+2, Cu+2 and Zn+2 adsorption from the industrial waste water.
http://eprints.hec.gov.pk/6732/
All science to this point suggest that it does not go away. If the fish lives, then you are managing the symptoms. Fish that had only minor affects are slightly less likely to be permanently affected to the point where it is noticeable.
ingtar_shinowa
New member
My 3" Lavender had three spots about a centimeter in diameter a piece all the way into the scales. I was bad. After 3 weeks of Selcon treating his food they were healed over but lighter colored. After 6 weeks no scarring what-so-ever.
