Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail

[plyle02]

Matt,
So sorry to hear about the recent issues man, I am sure you will be right on track soon! Take care, keep the thread updated as you acquire more precious goodies

 

[stonecold]

At the end of every dark tunnel, there will be bright lights. Looking forward to better days.

 

[Pife]

There is a very lack of pictures of your reef in this page.

I have in countered several moose during my fishing trips up there to the frozen north. It is a majestic and frightening animal that I wish to have a chance to hunt some day.

I have ran out of room for frags in my frag tank so I have to get my display running to thin it out!

 

[biggles]

I recently pulled out my Red Sea calcium test kit to compare the oddly high and consistent results I was getting from my salifert test kit and discovered that there was a 50ppm discrepancy! Salifert is giving me 420 and RS is giving me 370....
I was using salifert when I got my 500ppm reading which caused me to turn off my ca. Reactor.
This whole thing was not a technical error or malfunction, Andrew, it was me overreacting and doing so in haste.. I really thought I was over doing dumb sh*t like that but apparently not..
I'll have to buy a third test kit and compare results.
If I had originally been using my RS kit and gotten a result of 450ppm, I would not have reacted to stupidly..
Oh well, the damage is done and the corals that got shocked, continue to decline but some that weren't affected have not really changed much.. growth has stopped and colours are awful but I'm trying to just get a stable base and go from there.
Each removed coral skeleton is a good spot for a new Aussie coral (in my dreams)

Sorry Matt,, i misunderstood what actually caused the bad stuff mate. Bulent has found the Salifert Potassium kit reads 20 high - mines now at 430 on Salifert. After now reading the dramas the Salifert calcium kit caused you i've raised mine to 440 on Salifert just in case.

This looks more like the last thing Matt's dead acros saw tbh...... but the better days thing sounds way better

 

[drawman]

Dang sorry to hear that Matt! You try to find test kits you trust and it sucks when they bite you in the ***. It seems almost inevitable.

 

[reefmutt]

Moose vs lawnmower:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho8o92Ro-Ig

Ha! Moose as killer ballerina.

Matt,
So sorry to hear about the recent issues man, I am sure you will be right on track soon! Take care, keep the thread updated as you acquire more precious goodies

Thanks Perry, the tank is on hold for a while. I won't be adding much for a couple months, I suspect.

At the end of every dark tunnel, there will be bright lights. Looking forward to better days.

Thanks, Nick! I know we've all been there (here) but it's not that bad, really..

There is a very lack of pictures of your reef in this page.

I have in countered several moose during my fishing trips up there to the frozen north. It is a majestic and frightening animal that I wish to have a chance to hunt some day.

I have ran out of room for frags in my frag tank so I have to get my display running to thin it out!

Many years ago, in another life, I met a moose, face to face while drunk and wandering down mainstreet in Banff. I was so stunned by the sheer size and stillness, I just backed up and went around the nearest building. Moosey probably was so insulted by my alcohol breath that he couldn't be bothered to follow.

Sorry Matt,, i misunderstood what actually caused the bad stuff mate. Bulent has found the Salifert Potassium kit reads 20 high - mines now at 430 on Salifert. After now reading the dramas the Salifert calcium kit caused you i've raised mine to 440 on Salifert just in case.

This looks more like the last thing Matt's dead acros saw tbh...... but the better days thing sounds way better

Dang sorry to hear that Matt! You try to find test kits you trust and it sucks when they bite you in the ***. It seems almost inevitable.

Thanks Tim, Andrew, It's very frustrating when test kits fool you. I have since bought new ines and they are only about 10-20 ppm off.. maybe closer to 10 ppm.
So, yes I have lost a handful of corals but not half a tank full. I have several more that will probably die a slow death over the next few months and the tank is so drab and brown that I won't be taking any pics anytime soon.. But I'm sure that the average person would walk in and say, what dead corals? The tank looks the same to me..
Well, I can certainly tell..
Many corals have not been affected and one or two have begun to get excellent pe at night and they have begun to grow again.. slowly. Colour is still awful, even in new growth.
I have restarted the calc/alk replenishment with kalkwasser.
In my kalkwasser, I am mixing vinegar and vodka and kno3.
I will only dose a constant gallon of kalk per week.. once this doesn't keep up with demand, I will get my calcium reactor going again to keep up from there. I am doing the vv and kno3 to try to control my po4 while maintain no3 at around 5ppm. I'll see how close I can get to lowering po4 to below .08 without over dosing kno3 (getting a too high reading of potassium).
So, it's a bit of a dialing in process of getting the right amounts of carbon source and nitrate but I've got a decent base dose going. I'll test every couple of days alk, calcium, n and p and adjust kno3 and vv until I get some level results.
At the moment my constant .15 po4 level is really frustrating me and may be part of the general brown look of my acros..

I have been thinking back over my reef keeping and for all the talk I do about keeping thing static and not changing things, I actually NEVER stop changing things!
Well, this time, once I get a base dose for kalk/vv/n, I will reeeeeeaaaallllly try to keep that stable. I SWEAR!!!!!
I hope to have some positive things to post in a few (several) weeks.
I think the tank is on the mend, now- as far as the healthy corals go. The shocked corals.. well, they may take 2, 6 months or forever to come back..
Thanks for all the well wishes, guys!

 

[biggles]

I have had friends walk in and say wow the corals are looking amazing when i am thinking they look like sh$t Matt, i know exactly what you mean mate.

I think your plan to just get things stable and stop changing things is the right way to go, i was trying that until my recent foray into rapid phos dropping chemistry.

I really hope the colors brighten again sooner rather than later Matt, best get some new pieces to test the water now i reckon - non green ones mate....:reading:

 

[reefmutt]

Thanks Andrew. I really don't know what I'm doing now..
There's a an iconic Canadian Rock band called The Trafically Hip. They have a song called Boots or Hearts.
One line from the song goes like this: 'like boots or hearts, when they fall apart, they really fall apart'
Well maybe the line should be 'like boots or hearts or Matt's reef, when they fall apart.. etc..
I fear I am orchestrating another epic fail..
I am stuck between a rock and a hard place, right now.
When I first tested high ca, k and mg, several weeks ago, I shut down my calcium reactor. Alk dropped and that totally shocked the corals and shut most of them down.
Since adding ONLY buffer for 3 weeks, I managed to get alk down and solid at 6.7. Calcium fell to below 400- which I wanted to be able to bring cal and alk up a bit together.
BUT!!! My magnesium IS STILL 1500!!!!!! How is that even possible!?!
This is why I want to go with kalk as a base- to mitigate the high mag but even after 3 weeks of only adding buffer, mag hasn't fallen. I can only assume that the growth stoppage has cause mag to sit high.
But my plan to add vinegar to the kalk to increase its potency as well as lower n may have (was indeed) a stupid move right now. It's added more fluctuations to the tank and the tank is reacting.... badly.
I came home today to see my Oregon tort 3/4 rtned. It was fine this morning, perfect actually. It looked so good, I though it was one of the corals that wouldn't notice. I dragged 4 1/4 inch tips but I'm sure they will be dead tomorrow.
So now every coral is suspect even the ones that look good.
Nutrients are climbing because the corals are not growing, cheato won't grow because of the high mag....
I'm ****ed..
Another change.. I have to..
I'm going to just run straight kalk on the doser- remove the vinegar and kno3- to keep calc/alk stable. Ca reactor is going off. The ca reactor is the only possible source of mag, so it's offline.
Going to do some water changes and ride out what I think may be a couple months of die off.. I see rtn on some other corals as well. It's going to get ugly, I fear.
Not happy.. I can't seem to get a tank going longer than 2 years..
I'll keep everyone posted...

 

[slavetonet]

Don't worry about the magnesium being that high 1500.
I am looking after my mate's sps tank for a month and his MAG is 1680 ppm when I tested 3 weeks ago and I have stop dosing it since then.
His tank is a full sps tank with lots of corals - running my DIY trace elements with ULNS system.
So don't fear and "KISS" principal applies.

 

[westreef]

I have my Magnesium at 1700 for 3 weeks trying to kill the bryopsis using the M Tech. Didn't kill the bryopsis and the corals are happy. So don't worry about the high Mg.
Without replenishing the Mg, now the level is dropping to around 1500.
I feel sorry of what happen to your corals. Like Slavetonet says "KISS" principal applies!
Wish you luck.

 

[reefmutt]

Don't worry about the magnesium being that high 1500.
I am looking after my mate's sps tank for a month and his MAG is 1680 ppm when I tested 3 weeks ago and I have stop dosing it since then.
His tank is a full sps tank with lots of corals - running my DIY trace elements with ULNS system.
So don't fear and "KISS" principal applies.

I have my Magnesium at 1700 for 3 weeks trying to kill the bryopsis using the M Tech. Didn't kill the bryopsis and the corals are happy. So don't worry about the high Mg.
Without replenishing the Mg, now the level is dropping to around 1500.
I feel sorry of what happen to your corals. Like Slavetonet says "KISS" principal applies!
Wish you luck.

Hey Guys, thanks. You're right, on its own, mag isn't so bad if it's high but I think it becomes problematic when other parameters get too high as well.
I want to lower the magnesium for two reasons..
When I had high calcium, potassium and high mag, I started to see abnormal/unhealthy growth I some corals.. so I want to avoid that and two, the high mag reduces the growth of cheato and coupled with high calcium and potassium, I had my cheato completely stop growing.
My cheato has been an integral part of nutrient reduction but now it's really not doing much.
Also, with my mag at 1500 without my ca reactor running, it will only go higher when the ca reactor starts up..
1500 can't be my starting point, I don't think..
I'm going to go buy a new mag test kit.. probably two, just to make sure I don't have another scrappy salifert test kit.

 

[itz frank]

Hey boss. What do your evansis eat? I have three in QT that seem to only really respond to frozen cyclops.


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[reefmutt]

Well, I started with about 15 and they were very finicky. I tried everything. Many different frozen shrimp mixes. Brine, mysis, spirulina brin, rotifers, cyclops, etc. of the 15, I have 6 left that eat extremely well. I give mysis and sp. brine, now.
I got them small. I think they may do better if they are a bit larger and more capable of eating larger foods..
Just the as many different foods and eat he to see which they really eat..

 

[FloformAustria]

hey matt!

sorry to hear about your problems... we are both have tanks acting up...

hope you get yours back on track...

i got most of the sand out and changed nearly all the water...

Cheers buddy

 

[markalot]

Crap Matt.

You know I don't have as much experience as you do, like by a decade or more, but I'll spout anyway just to hear myself talk.

I would just stop testing everything but Alk. I use Kalk but abandoned super saturated in favor of two part, the vinegar might work for some but it seems inconsistent and I am completely over carbon dosing. You know how it goes though, it works for some tanks and not for others.

I never add buffer by itself, always equal parts of a two part when I want to adjust KH. I stopped testing Calcium because it would make me react and I'm so weak willed I don't need more data else I'll go and change something that doesn't need to be changed. I do test Mag from time to time just to make sure it's near 1300. When I hear of people adding buffer I get confused (my lack of long term experience showing) because all I've ever known is two part or Kalk. Perhaps buffer is a normal part of operating a calcium reactor but that might make it 3 points of failure then ...

I do not like Calcium reactors. I know they can save a lot of money and add micro elements back to the water but they also introduce at least 2 additional points of failure (and I hate external co2 tanks). That plus the fact many users have to add Kalk to manage low PH and it just seems like an accident waiting to happen. Give me another 10 years and maybe I'll change my mind.

The recovery of my tank started when I basically stopped doing anything but topoff and enough Kalk in the topoff to maintain Alk. I'm now at saturated Kalk and will have to use 2 part to make up the difference. My tank has never looked as good as yours, so there's that as well.

Thanks for tolerating my rambling.

 

[Geeray]

Crap Matt.

You know I don't have as much experience as you do, like by a decade or more, but I'll spout anyway just to hear myself talk.

I would just stop testing everything but Alk. I use Kalk but abandoned super saturated in favor of two part, the vinegar might work for some but it seems inconsistent and I am completely over carbon dosing. You know how it goes though, it works for some tanks and not for others.

I never add buffer by itself, always equal parts of a two part when I want to adjust KH. I stopped testing Calcium because it would make me react and I'm so weak willed I don't need more data else I'll go and change something that doesn't need to be changed. I do test Mag from time to time just to make sure it's near 1300. When I hear of people adding buffer I get confused (my lack of long term experience showing) because all I've ever known is two part or Kalk. Perhaps buffer is a normal part of operating a calcium reactor but that might make it 3 points of failure then ...

I do not like Calcium reactors. I know they can save a lot of money and add micro elements back to the water but they also introduce at least 2 additional points of failure (and I hate external co2 tanks). That plus the fact many users have to add Kalk to manage low PH and it just seems like an accident waiting to happen. Give me another 10 years and maybe I'll change my mind.

The recovery of my tank started when I basically stopped doing anything but topoff and enough Kalk in the topoff to maintain Alk. I'm now at saturated Kalk and will have to use 2 part to make up the difference. My tank has never looked as good as yours, so there's that as well.

Thanks for tolerating my rambling.

I'm with Markalot on this I would lose the vinegar. I had nothing but problems when I tried it years ago. I believe the vinegar was a recent addition for you as well isn't it?

 

[DiscusHeckel]

I concur with Mark and Geeray.

I have never had any luck with white vinegar ever. Every time I used it (no matter how small amount) either on its own or in conjunction with calcium hydroxide, my SPS corals had STN and my LPS simply lost tissue and eventually died. FWIW, I used two different vinegar brands, but both contained 5% distilled vinegar from barley.

 

[itz frank]

Well, I started with about 15 and they were very finicky. I tried everything. Many different frozen shrimp mixes. Brine, mysis, spirulina brin, rotifers, cyclops, etc. of the 15, I have 6 left that eat extremely well. I give mysis and sp. brine, now.
I got them small. I think they may do better if they are a bit larger and more capable of eating larger foods..
Just the as many different foods and eat he to see which they really eat..

Thanks for the response. Mine just went into the display. All respond to food. Two of my three chase food in the water column while the third only comes out of hiding for food. I placed them yesterday. I'm feeding a mix of frozen mysis, so. Brine, and frozen cyclops three times a day just to make sure they have something to go after.


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[Mr.Fishtank]

Hey Guys, thanks. You're right, on its own, mag isn't so bad if it's high but I think it becomes problematic when other parameters get too high as well.
I want to lower the magnesium for two reasons..
When I had high calcium, potassium and high mag, I started to see abnormal/unhealthy growth I some corals.. so I want to avoid that and two, the high mag reduces the growth of cheato and coupled with high calcium and potassium, I had my cheato completely stop growing.
My cheato has been an integral part of nutrient reduction but now it's really not doing much.
Also, with my mag at 1500 without my ca reactor running, it will only go higher when the ca reactor starts up..
1500 can't be my starting point, I don't think..
I'm going to go buy a new mag test kit.. probably two, just to make sure I don't have another scrappy salifert test kit.

If you are using AF reef salt. Check the mag next time you do your wc. Last two buckets have been 1480-1500+ on the mag. I couldn't figure out why my mag was so high till i checked the salt. I usually only test alk and cal when mixing my salt. Guess I will have to start testing for mag now.

 

[drawman]

Hey Matt I hope things are turning the corner for you! Any updates?

I'm curious too did you ever end up switching to AF Reef Salt instead of the probiotic reef salt? I thought I remember reading somewhere that you were contemplating it.