Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing

Status
Not open for further replies.
ok, I will keep you guys informed on how it goes. Im thinking of dosing sugar with it too. Just to keep the carbon sources mixed up. Do you think it would be a good idea to dose something like biodigest or something of that sort too?
 
My before/after coral pics look pretty much the same...except for the fact that my once imaciated fish are now fat to the point that they waddle rather than swim.

I will be looking into supplements to improve my colors. They all look good but for my pale California Tort (the purple portion is great, the green is washed out).
 
Anyone have this paper laying around? Or have access to ICES Journal of Marine Sci.?

Concentration of Bacteria from Sea Water by Bubble Scavenging

Oddly, I was thinking about doing this at home. Glad I looked online before hand. I would really like to know the outcome.

Conway and Ross, which I can't find a copy of New York's Waste Water Treatment from 1980, seemed more focused on the removal of organics from the water than the actual bacterium. Well that's what I can tell from the link you posted Mesocosm.

Anyone noticed that J.D. van der Toorn (1987) was focused on Dolphin care? Thought at the time was you could use NaCl in water for survival.
 
I am dosing vodka but I had stopped for awile justto notice a difference and cyanobacteria came from nowhere so i started dosing again and it left, I haven't seen any changes in my corals color or growth and everything is alright.
I started dosing 5ml for the whole tank and each 2 days I doubled the quantity until I reached the dosing recommended for my tank and everything whent alright no cloudy water or deaths.
 
miwoodar's tank looks amazing. I hope he doesnt mind me posting what he just posted on our local forum, because this thread has hardly any pictures.

Here they are anyways.

January 2nd...
CIMG0397.jpg


April 2nd (or so)....
CIMG1297.jpg


January 2nd....(this one still shows my problem child California Tort)
CIMG0095.jpg


April 2nd...
CIMG1276.jpg



CIMG1278.jpg


More current pics...
CIMG1270.jpg

CIMG1287.jpg

CIMG1283.jpg
 
WoW. I'm just waiting for Peter to type up the guidelines and warnings page so I can do this too, without having to read this entire thread. ;)
 
To be fair about those photos - I'm a better photographer now than I was in January. The earlier photos were somewhat washed out. My color has improved more than I have led on in my posts though (trying to avoid the *anedoctal* evidence that we see so much around here). My wife has always thought the table shown above was brown with white tips. She is a hard nut to crack because she brings a much more objective eye to coral coloration than any of us. The other day though she stopped me and, to my surprise, told me it had turned red with blue tips. On a similar note - I had work friends over last week who have been over many times before. They all agreed that I had changed the tank in some way and everything was much brighter than ever before. The funny thing about this...my company cleans up ground water through carbon additions and the people I had over were scientists and engineers. The moment that I admitted that I had been dosing carbon to grow bacteria to burn up nutrients...they gave the nod and while they don't understand the details (I don't either!), they do understand the principle. BTW - we typically dose carbon into groundwater through molasses additions because it is the cheapest way to pump it in by the ton.

Peter? The z-man?

BTW - to all, that is Melev RO/DI in my tank.
 
Peter is SDguy. And picture changes (different camera, different lighting, different post Photoshopping) really can skew perspective, but I'm definitely interested. Even David Saxby told me to do it, but I've just not felt informed enough.

Which is why I want a write up. If it is good, accurate and prove-able, it might even end up in Reefkeeping. :)
 
This is great that you are interested Melev. I was reading that you had some nitrate problems for awhile? How is that going? It was unfortunate I could not make it to reefstock. It would have been nice to meet you.
 
melev,

If you'd like, list your params and issues...I'm sure we can get you started :rollface:

miwoodar,

great coloration :thumbsup: glad to see it's working well.
 
I'll get my water tests done tomorrow, and we can work with those numbers - at least discuss it, right?
 
Yeah, its kind of hard to give a set dosing schedule. From what I have read, the trick is to start out with small dosages, and work your way up based on your skimmer performance and a few other things. Genetics, Glass-box design, and Peter know more than I do about it.
 
All color aside (can be affected by too many camera variables:D)....the grwoth in those pic's is great for 4 mo's (can't fake that with a camera :lol: )!!!
 
There are two schools of thought regarding the dosing.... one that is allegedly 'more risky', namely dose haphazardly and increasing amounts until you get the bloom, then reduce your dosage by 50% the following day as a maintenance dose. The second is more slower, starting off at .1 ml of vodka per net 26 gallons of water for 4 days, double the dosage for the next 3-4 days, double etc, until you read 0 ppm NO3s (on a good test kit). Then reduce your dosage to dial in as a maintenance dosage....

Both are simple... its not too hard, the key is having a good skimmer and watching the tank. I dosed numerous systems to get the bloom, and never had any loses, though the ORP dropped drastically when I did get the bloom.

As hinted at in the original vodka thread (see my first post), there are some scenarios where vodka will NOT work. Namely when PO4 is at already really low levels. This reminds of the recommendation in zeoville to not use GFO when using the zeovit system. The only comment was that "you don't need GFO with zeovit", not that this will reduce the effectiveness of the probiotic method.
 
I can tell you that the current pics are just about visually correct relative to the naked eye. The earlier ones, as I mentioned, were somewhat washed out. My colors have definitely improved though. For anyone that doubts the colors in the current pics, all of the photos were taken with the same camera settings including the FTS shots. Please color check by looking at the fish.

FWIW...The history of my tank and my dosing schedules:

This tank is four years old but I started putting corals in it only three years ago. I have two 250 watt 20 K bulbs (magnetic SPS 20K on the left, electronic Radium on the right) and two actinic VHOs. About two and a half years ago I decided that it would be an SPS tank. Until about four months ago it was a berlin setup (plus a calcium reactor and SSB) with a limited fish load and a very reduced feeding schedule. It has always been non-detect for NO3 and PO4 on hobby grade test kits. Three months (or so) ago I added GFO and started feeding a little more. Then the larger changes...

8 weeks ago, after much (but NEVER enough) reading, I started doing carbon dosing. From the start I took a conservative approach. It took many weeks to get beyond counting in drops. After about a month (or so) I bumped to 1 mL of VSV and 0.25 mL DIY amino acid formula per day. During this time I went from feeding a small bit maybe three times a week to feeding a *LOT* on a nightly basis. As of six weeks into this process I was quite sure that I had fed the tank six months worth of food. I feed so much that my fish literally stop eating and look for a lazy boy to sit down on. I've fed as much as five cubes to four fish in a single day. It is an impossible feat for such a small crowd of fish to eat that much food! Anyways, I'm still reading ND on my nitrate kit and 0.0 on my phosphate kit. These are both hobby grade kits so take the results for...well...a grain of salt. I'm gaining access to a HACH 980 next week though so I look forward to having much more detailed numbers to help my own decisions and to help any readers that are looking for their own non-proprietary path. I have no exceptional nusiance algae growth. BTW, I completely scraped all of the coralline off of the back glass twice between the two FTS's above.

In short, here's where I am today:
* 85 net gallons with a semi-mature SPS tank
* Relatively NSW parameters for salinity, Ca, Mg, and alk (I haven't done a water change since January, the one before that was June or July)
* Feed so much that my fish go starry-eyed
* 2 mL of VSV a day (5mL vodka, 1 tspn sugar, 5mL vinegar, 15 mL RO/DI)
* 0.5 mL DIY amino acid solution (just buy an AA solution, I'm going to very soon)
* DIY bacteria culture (would I recommend this, I dunno - PLEASE shoot holes in this idea if you feel so inclined) of a small dish of tank water that recieves a few pellets of food, a few drops of VSV and a few drops of AA's a few times a week. 1/2 of the dish gets emptied into the tank on a ~daily basis to feed the corals. Here is the <a href="http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=211460&highlight=nitrate">inspiration</a> for this idea.
* Also - I nearly forgot that I do this - I have a filter bag as a bubble catch out of my skimmer. I scrape it a few times a week to send any detritius and/or bacteria back into the tank to also feed the corals.

I'm very pleased with where I am right now but I see this as a journey. I will be somewhere else along the voyage a month from now (definitely proprietary AA's and maybe zeolitic stones). I would rate some of my corals in the 8 to 9 out of 10. Others (California Tort) would only receive a 5 or 6. Hopefully my experience can help others find their own path. Even better - if my experience could help us find a collective probiotic approach, that would be icing on the cake.

Total investment so far....maybe $10.
 
Last edited:
Thank you all so far for your recent posts. Mesocosm is killing me now for asking for simple answers, I'm sure of it. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top