Live sand---no. FYI

[Sk8r]

I was appalled, going to a store, looking for a little medium aragonite. What I was presented; 20 lb itty bitty bags of 'live sand'...

No way. First of all, 'live sand' is a waste, just in concept. There's a reason you have the rock. If it got overheated on the truck, all it's contributing is biomass.

But there's a more basic reason. You're paying for...wait for it...WATER.

Y' know, you don't have to pay exorbitant prices for water weight.

And you CANNOT use that 20 lbs as satisfying the 1 lb per gallon rule about putting sand in your new tank. That's what really bothers me. That 20 lbs means DRY weight sand. More water just isn't helping.

I did contemplate getting it, because that was what I could find, carefully drying it on the patio and then using it, but why should I pay for more work. No way.

I'm holding out for nice dry medium aragonite.

 

[gone fishin]

I feel your pain LOL. When I set the 180 up last summer I searched all around for plain old dry aragonite instead of small bags of live sand.

 

[Mstark11]

Yup. I paid 40$ for a bag of damp, shoreline dry sand straight from florida, got 50lbs.

went to the LFS for "live sand", only thing I could find was a 20lb dry bag for 45$ that was sitting on a concrete floor in the middle of the room.

If that dry bag was live, then I'm the mayor of burgetrown.

 

[Reefnation.Jon]

There is some benefit to live sand. It will have bacteria populations in it. It may also have other micro fauna in it. As the micro fauna dies the bacteria will increase. There are some colors that only come live.

SK8R has a great point that the 20lb bag is probably 10lbs of water. Also who know the temp swings and time frame this bag of sand has gone through since it was scooped out of the ocean.

Is it worth the money... No way. If you can find it for $1/lbs ... may be.

 

[EllieSuz]

I don't think there's anything beneficial left in a bag of "live" sand. How many months did it sit on a warehouse shelf before it even made it to the LFS? There can't be anything really alive in there anymore. I fell for the "live" sand deal when I started out. The only tiny advantage is that there are all kinds of little shells and stuff in the bag that add interest to a plain sand bed.

 

[Reefnation.Jon]

I personally set up a 180 tank just a few months ago. I used dry rock and indo-pacific live sand. With in a few days I saw little worms on the glass. There was no where they could have come from other than the sand. They say there is a 12 month shelf life on live sand. If worms can live, bacteria and other micro fauna certanly can as well.

Again I was able to get this for $1/lb. I would not have paid anything more.

 

[SushiGirl]

I've had plenty of life show up from bagged live sand. Hard to get dry sand around here without ordering & shipping it. So far it's been cheaper to buy the bagged.

 

[MrClam]

I do agree that good live sand or good live rock can both be very beneficial to a new tank. You just have to be able to recognize what is "good." Most people here say live rock is the way to go, but there is one LFS by me that buys dry rock and puts it in a tank separate from their system and calls it "live" for $8/lb. If you bought this rock a day after they put it in I doubt it would be very live

 

[Sk8r]

Hardly.
Actually, I managed to get 100 lbs of dry aragonite...local store, coming in Wednesday. Happy.

 

[mbcolangelo]

I just ran into live sand issue a few months ago. I wanted nice small grain consistent sand, they sold me on this black speckled mix live sand stuff by CaribSea "Ocean Direct" which they said was small grain and all consistent and was told not to rinse (not even in sw) - what I found after putting it in my new setup was sand mixed with black crushed coral! Definitely not sand, check out my tank pic after I put it in (I didn't just dump it in either) - after a month I gave up did a complete water change and cleaned tank. Went back to lfs and complained, I got half my money back ($30) and 2 free bags of salt for my troubles.


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[degibson84]

I just ran into live sand issue a few months ago. I wanted nice small grain consistent sand, they sold me on this black speckled mix live sand stuff by CaribSea "Ocean Direct" which they said was small grain and all consistent and was told not to rinse (not even in sw) - what I found after putting it in my new setup was sand mixed with black crushed coral! Definitely not sand, check out my tank pic after I put it in (I didn't just dump it in either) - after a month I gave up did a complete water change and cleaned tank. Went back to lfs and complained, I got half my money back ($30) and 2 free bags of salt for my troubles.


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this is what happens when you dont rinse the sand.

if you buy sand from reefrocks.net it is very good clean sand

 

[mbcolangelo]

Ikr, I always rinse but this was my first go with "live sand". Lol, live, learn, and don't always listen to the lfs. I doubt I'll ever use live sand again, at least not the bagged kind.. It's like double the price, $55 for a 40lb bag

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[zland1]

You can get 40 lb special reef grade sand from petsmart online for around $27 and usually free shipping depending on how many bags you buy.

 

[alexander_ktn]

I agree that it is probably not worth the money, but I don't really see any harm in using it when it's all that's available...

Anecdote: I once had a few Acetabularia algae grow from the bagged standard live sand when I put it in a new tank - I have no idea how the spores/seeds got in there or survived, but somehow they made it...

 

[Windirmere]

The LFS I go to dosn't carry live sand, she says its a waste!

 

[nynick]

Most of the big brands just take regular dead sand, pour on a little water and dormant bacteria. It should stay "live" for quite a while but yeah, what is the point really? Any substrate that you can not clean before using is garbage in my book.

Dead sand can be rinsed properly, the nitrifying bacteria can be bought very cheaply if you feel you need it and the water should not be an issue in an aquarium.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

IMO- two very bad trends I see developing in this forum

IMO- two very bad trends I see developing in this forum

newbies purchasing DEAD liverock and "LIVE" sand

tip:
purchase the BEST REALLY LIVE LIVEROCK you can afford and leave the "LIVE" sand for somebody else to purchase!

do your homework :reading:

 

[crazylawyer]

I am in full agreement with Sk8r. 95 % of what you are paying for when you buy sand is shipping, based on weight. Shipping is expensive these days,and ain't eco- friendly Even laundry soap makers have learned to reduce the H20 in their products to reduce weight.

Having said that, I have a novel question. I picked up 4 bags of some type of "live" black sand for a FOWLR build off CL two months ago. It was cheap. But yesterday I noticed its sell-by date was five frackin years ago.

I'm a Southdown DSB veteran and I don't rinse sand. I don't even rinse the Flourite in my FW tanks. Lots of patience for a couple of days followed by a canister filter filled with floss has always done the trick.

But with expired "live sand" I can't help but think I am dealing with bags of rotten meat. Or that tupperware full of something long lost in the back of the fridge.

Please, somebody tell me I don't have to wash this stuff.

 

[nynick]

Once you wash sand you will never be able not to do it again. The stuff that float up when you run your fingers through it can be surprising. Twigs, styrofoam, dried up crab and once something that looked a lot like an old well chewed bubblegum.

 

[Sk8r]

If you're cycling a tank, the dead stuff (give or take the bubblegum) isn't going to hurt you...but you're going to be buying water with live (or dead) bacteria at sand prices. And if you're buying less than a 40 lb bag of dry, you're going to be paying small-volume prices, which hurt a lot. Bigger is generally cheaper, whether sand or rock or fishfood.
If it's what you can get, use it; at least it's moderately washed.

If you're merely adding sand, go with washed dry sand! you don't need surprises delivered in the form of dead 'live sand.' You'll get some algae, but it'll go soon.

But remember that the 1 lb per gallon figure on how much sand you need is based on dry weight. You're going to have to judge purely on depth, which is about 4" for a 'deep bed'...
And if you're getting dry sand---WASH it well and you'll have less algae trouble. Get a 5 gallon bucket, a hose, or do it in the bathtub, and just keep washing and dumping til the water runs clear; then use a little Prime to remove the chlorine and put it on in. I go about 10 lbs of sand at a go.

Re what Gary said: building with 90% dry is fine---if the 10% is the absolute finest, most critter-crawling live rock you can lay hands on, and you're prepared to wait 12 weeks for your cycle.
Myself, I'm really against 'cooking' rock til it's brown. I want rock crawling with worms and pods and little shrimp and sponges and whatever I can get. That kind of rock is expensive, but going well-washed dry very-holey-limestone for most of it and getting a rock that's really so alive it nearly walks off the table---that's what I'd do.