Local fish shop QT?

[HumbleFish]

The poll is saying one thing and you guys are saying another.

I think if I were to ever try my hand at owning a LFS and do this, I would start slow. Maybe just a few QT tanks in the back and a handful of fish. If it doesn't work out, not much lost. But if the idea takes off, then I could expand.

I'm also starting to realize the market your LFS is in would probably be a huge factor as well.

 

[terrypercula]

None and here's why. My LFS will do it regardless for no extra cost. Even if he wouldn't I would.

 

[snorvich]

None and here's why. My LFS will do it regardless for no extra cost. Even if he wouldn't I would.

How, exactly, do they do it?

 

[hogfanreefer]

Nicewrasse.com does offer this service, though I would not totally trust their 4 week QT process. Unfortunately right now they are in transition and don't have any fish for sale yet.

 

[snorvich]

I would need to understand their process in detail because the vast majority of LFS do it improperly and actually increase the odds of parasite infestation. Aquarium maintenance companies, which warrant their fish as long as all fish are purchased from them, do it much closer to properly.

 

[greg1786]

I would absolutely be willing to pay extra for livestock if my LFS qt'd their fish! I would still qt them at my home, however I think having the peace of mind knowing that they took the extra time and care to ensure I get the healthiest specimen possible is worth a few extra bucks imo. Being a small business owner (restaurant), I totally understand a lfs not wanting to take the risk of investing capital into a qt system for fear of it being the failure of their business. That being said, I do think it is possible for MOST fish stores to incorporate a qt system without putting their business at risk of failure.

I recently learned that a LFS in my area actually does this already. They opened about a year ago. They never really have many corals and most of their fish are your everyday animals, ie yellow tangs, clowns, damsels, etc. so I rarely shop there. I was speaking with the owner recently and asked about their system which is how I came to learn that they qt their fish. They have their stands built so that the tanks run the entire length of the store front to back and are stacked three rows tall. The bottom row of tanks is for coral, inverts, and small fish. This row is plumbed to a sump that holds about 300 lbs of LR, a skimmer, filter sock, and mech. media. This row also contains now medications of any kind. The middle row of tanks is Fish only. These are the fish they offer for sale to the public. This system is plumbed into its own sump with a skimmer and filter sock but now live rock or other media because this system runs copper at all times. The top row of tanks is for all newly aquired fish and is also plumbed to its own sump. This row is tready regularly with copper and prazi. Fish are not offered for sale from this system and are monitored for 2 weeks before they are put up for sale. During that time, if the fish develops any ailment that needs treatment beyond copper or prazi, they are removed from this system to one of several large HT that are kept in the back of the store out of the view of public, where they can be treated with other medications or methods and observed and cared for until they are healthy enough to be offered for sale. I was very pleased and surprised when I found this out. I feel like their prices are quite fair as well. I have four local fish stores within 30 miles of my house and they are spot on with the other 3 stores prices. It is a small store and the only people who work there are the two owners and a couple family members. The owners are there everyday from open to close. Like I said before I dont buy much livestock from them because they rarely have anything out of the norm, however I do stop in from time to time just in case they have something ive been looking for because their livestock is second to none when it comes to quality and health.

 

[HumbleFish]

Thanks for all the feedback!

I would like to add another "what if" to the discussion... A lot of folks know their tank has Ich, would like to do something about it, but don't want to go through the hassle of catching/QT'ing all their fish for 72 days.

WHAT IF a LFS offered this service? They come out, catch all your fish, QT/treat back at the shop, and then return them to you once the fallow period has ended. What would that be worth to you? Only catch is you'd have to sign a waiver releasing the LFS from any financial liability if a fish doesn't make it.

 

[crissie]

My LFS quarantines for 2 weeks. Apart from the fact that I wouldn't trust anyone else to quarantine, I know for a fact that they do this purely to get the fish used to their preferred brand of food, which, wouldn't you know, just happens to be very expensive and they are the only local stockist. Shock horror right?!

I haven't voted though because you didn't have a 0% option, I would be happier if they didn't quarantine at all.

For your second question, again I wouldn't trust them, they'd probably just lower the salinity levels until the symptoms went away. Plus, I wouldn't be happy with the waiver, what if they overdosed a medication and killed all the fish?

 

[fishresponse]

There are a few stores in my area and all have their issues of diseases. I would prefer a store actually become more responsible for their own practices and sell livestock that was healthy in the first place. It shouldn't be a question of having to pay more to get fish that have been QT'd but rather a more expensive fish due to life support system in place, stable parameters, etc. As a result, this should have a byproduct of healthier fish to sell. Once you buy the fish it's up to the hobbiest to QT as they choose.

Now I know that the industry has their own issues of passing diseases from one supplier to another and then to a store, but store owners should understand that systems need their own fallow period before putting more fish in. Perhaps this would cause more stores to have smaller systems so they wouldn't have to take large systems offline and lose out on livestock capacity and therefore lose money. I've seen stores get shut down due to animal cruelty due to so many sick fish. I want my LFS to succeed and I support them whenever possible, but store owners need to seriously consider investing in their own product so the quality of their product is just as good as some of the online retailers.

Just my thoughts...

 

[scott3569]

I have read through all of the comments in this thread...And as a newbie in this hobby...So far I have spent $1000+ on my system..that is before any live stock..And I have a small system compared to many of you..only a 56gal DT..now I also know that there are many other on here that have the nanos and such, But they are spending about $500 on there system( I am pulling numbers out of my hat) but I know that got to be close...

Even if you get a darn good deal on a system, you are still going to be putting a lot of money into it to get it up and running..now granted some of these costs do go down over time..

But, how many people get into this hobby and even if they just spent the minimum on a set up, end up giving it up because all their live stock died because the $500 - $1000 just wasn't enough..

Now, If you had a place That ACTUALLY taught you about the process, because they want to see you succeed. With some it would probably deter them from even starting in the hobby..But, with others you would be able to build a relationship with, and have a customer for life..

If you understood the Costs of getting a GOOD system up and running in the first place..Would you then not spend a little more on the live stock that you are going to put in you system no matter how big or how small??

In my opinion I believe honesty is a very good selling point!!! and trust as well!! The two LFS store near me, I couldn't trust them now as much as i could throw them..And with these forums up and going that is going to be the trend, and the business of owning an LFS will eventually change, they are going to have to give more knowledge to their customers to compete with the knowledge that is now online!!

If I never found this forum, I would have to trust everything my LFS told me was true, thats just not the case anymore

 

[igot2gats]

I would pay a little more for a QT'd fish from an LFS, as long as I trusted them and/or knew their QT practices.

It doesn't do any good if an LFS QT's their animals if they're not QT'ing the proper way.

 

[snorvich]

Now, If you had a place That ACTUALLY taught you about the process, because they want to see you succeed. With some it would probably deter them from even starting in the hobby..But, with others you would be able to build a relationship with, and have a customer for life..

Which is what RC tries to do


the business of owning an LFS will eventually change, they are going to have to give more knowledge to their customers to compete with the knowledge that is now online!!

Unfortunately, not. There is always an inherent conflict of interests when one party is selling and the other is buying. The unfortunate facts of life for an LFS is that their geographic area is circumscribed and is fairly small. Even worse if there is competition within that geographic area. In that case LFS can differentiate themselves by providing knowledge but at the cost of less sales if their price is higher. Remember the elasticity of demand issue; folks can get information in once place and buy cheaper elsewhere. In the end, that forces people to turn more and more to online vendors who have massive volume, greater selection, no sales tax, and access to more animals because of their volume within the distribution system.

 

[scott3569]

You have a good point there! I am finding that the competition of the LFS is not another LFS in the area but the online stores..(that is just my area)..So I can see where it would be difficult to compete with the online, that being said a lot of businesses are struggling to compete with online sales

 

[snorvich]

You have a good point there! I am finding that the competition of the LFS is not another LFS in the area but the online stores..(that is just my area)..So I can see where it would be difficult to compete with the online, that being said a lot of businesses are struggling to compete with online sales

It is going to get worse, at least in this industry, but perhaps in all industries. Look at the business model for Amazon.com (not clearly obvious to most) wherein they are foregoing current profits in order to capture market share. And with their highly sophisticated marketing software, can target individuals by zipcode and inquiries. For LFS, the ugly truth is that distributors give prime livestock to vendors with high volume. And those with very high volume can even cherry pick. LFS are forced to purchase "on spec" for inventory and with a relatively low volume do not get the upper tier of animals. Since most folks in our hobby buy "on price" the LFS is caught between a rock and a hard place. (an interesting fact is that LFS only break even or make a profit if they have a maintenance side of the business and/or cater to the super high end hobbyist)

 

[scott3569]

That is quite interesting!! amazon is absolutely a hit to any Brick and mortar store..in just 5 years amazons stock has gone from $50 a share to over $300 a share!! that is huge growth!

 

[snorvich]

That is quite interesting!! amazon is absolutely a hit to any Brick and mortar store..in just 5 years amazons stock has gone from $50 a share to over $300 a share!! that is huge growth!

Well, sort of; it is not really growth, but rather market share. Amazon has horizontally integrated by being the marketing and distribution function for companies that were formerly competitors. They have, however, foregone profits (so far) for market share. They are also looking at vertical integration with regards to delivery (drones and delivery vehicles) In our industry, Dr. Foster and Smith is vertically integrated in that they incorporate their distributor within their model. They do not need to horizontally integrate because their existing vertical model gives them a competitive advantage.

But we are well beyond the fish business so I will cease and desist. :spin2:

 

[scott3569]

your are correct!!

 

[HumbleFish]

A new LFS (somewhat) nearby is QT'ing all of their fish before selling them. It's not what I would call a "thorough" QT process - they only keep the fish in copper for 2 weeks, but all of their fish are MAC certified and are eating before they sell them. So, it will be interested to see how this LFS fares long-term.

 

[snorvich]

A new LFS (somewhat) nearby is QT'ing all of their fish before selling them. It's not what I would call a "thorough" QT process - they only keep the fish in copper for 2 weeks, but all of their fish are MAC certified and are eating before they sell them. So, it will be interested to see how this LFS fares long-term.

The devil is in the details. I would love to understand their process in detail. As you know, two weeks is insufficient.

 

[HumbleFish]

The devil is in the details. I would love to understand their process in detail. As you know, two weeks is insufficient.

They QT all new fish in the back for 2 weeks before selling. All fish are MAC certified, and they won't sell the fish until it eats (so I'm thinking this might be a good place to buy a CBB from). I also believe you get a 1 or 2 week guarantee.

Their treatment protocol is a little dubious. Cupramine for 2 weeks, but their treatment tank contains dead coral skeletons and a substrate. So, I'm a little worried about copper absorption, and that masking Ich or Velvet. I haven't decided yet whether I plan to TT, or use CP on the CBB.

I'm going there next month for a local club meet, and hopefully to pickup my CBB specimen. I'll try to learn more about their process then.