Local fish shop QT?

Local fish shop QT?

  • just 25% more

    Votes: 14 30.4%

  • 50% more

    Votes: 19 41.3%

  • 75% more

    Votes: 2 4.3%

  • 100% more (it's that important to me!)

    Votes: 11 23.9%
  • Total voters
    46
HumbleFish

HumbleFish

Dr. Fish
Premium Member
One of the biggest complaints about s/w LFS I always see/hear is that the fish have Ich (or some other disease). That, combined with a "two week guarantee", is what seems to drive most people away from their LFS and to the online places.

So, what if your LFS decided it was time to level the playing field by offering fish that had been QT'd for one month and came with a two week guarantee? For the sake of argument, each shipment was isolated (so no cross contamination from a "new" fish), and prophylactically medicated for internal & external parasites for at least one month. How much more would you be willing to pay (see poll)?
 
The problem is that fish systems cannot be used to quarantine since any time something is added, the clock restarts. So LFS pretty much are going to be unable to do so at any reasonable price. Additionally, I would not trust them to do it correctly. Now, if you poll what additional price would be reasonable for a 14 day unconditional guarantee . . . that would be more interesting.
 
snorvich said:
The problem is that fish systems cannot be used to quarantine since any time something is added, the clock restarts. So LFS pretty much are going to be unable to do so at any reasonable price. Additionally, I would not trust them to do it correctly. Now, if you poll what additional price would be reasonable for a 14 day unconditional guarantee . . . that would be more interesting.
Click to expand...

I don't see how you can really do one without the other. You can't offer a 14 day unconditional guarantee on a fish you're just "flipping" from wholesaler to consumer. You have to something to ensure the fish is going to live past the 14 days.

Back when I did aquarium maintenance, the owner QT'd all of his fish in closed loop systems (not tied to a common sump). All of the fish got initial antibiotic treatment (using Maracyn 1 & 2), and one month of Coppersafe treatment. After the one month, they were all moved out to clients' tanks before the next shipment arrived. His success rate using this method astounded me; probably well over 95% of his fish survived the QT protocol and once they made it to the clients' tanks, they almost always lived for years & years. I never once saw Ich, or any disease (other than HLLE) in any of his clients' tanks (we maintained close to 100 tanks). I suspect using Quality Marine as his exclusive wholesaler helped as well.

So, my experiences working for him has always made me wonder "what if" a LFS employed a similar QT protocol. It would have to be done "in the back", so a large shop would be required. Maybe "out front" you have a section of regularly priced, as-is fish for sale; and the QT'd/two week guarantee fish for sale in another section.
 
Well, having been employed as a consultant to several LFS, unfortunately I can relay that the vast majority of hobbyists are looking for cheap fish, even more so with corals. Since, the business model for a brick and mortar LFS without either a significant maintenance or non-marine fish income component does not currently work, any price increase will decrease total volume and result in the store failing sooner. I wish it were not the case, I personally would pay much more if I felt that fish were truly parasite free.
 
However. I know several maintenance companies that offer one month warranty because they DO quarantine and treat. Completely different business model.
 
Hey, unless I QT the fish myself, it's never going in my DT. But I also realize that line of thinking represents the minority in this hobby. Most people are gonna buy fish, put them straight in their DT, and that's never going to change.

So, a LFS owner would be wise to at least explore the possibility of in-house QT and capitalize in the process. Maybe start by offering just a handful of "hard to keep" fish that have already been QT'd. A lot of people will pay good money for a healthy, eating Moorish Idol or Copperband Butterflyfish. And, of course, never stop selling "regular fish" for your bottom line price so as to appeal to everyone. ;)
 
Qt takes two things that are already in short supply at a LFS, time ($$) and space. It simply isn't monetarily feasible for your LFS to qt all their stock.
 
HumbleFish said:
I don't see how you can really do one without the other. You can't offer a 14 day unconditional guarantee on a fish you're just "flipping" from wholesaler to consumer. You have to something to ensure the fish is going to live past the 14 days.
Click to expand...

But isn't that just what liveaquaria does? I know DD QTs fish, ands sells at a premium, but I thought LA just 'flipped'? Though, frankly, the cost of LA fish with the 14 day guarantee is no higher than most of my LFS.
 
ca1ore said:
But isn't that just what liveaquaria does? I know DD QTs fish, ands sells at a premium, but I thought LA just 'flipped'? Though, frankly, the cost of LA fish with the 14 day guarantee is no higher than most of my LFS.
Click to expand...

LA is basically just a middleman for Quality Marine. Their only facility is in Wisconsin, where the DD stuff comes from. Otherwise, it's coming direct from Quality. But the advantage a LFS has over an online place such as LA is not having to shell out $225 all at once to get "free shipping". And being able to see the specimen before you buy, and not having to wait around all day on UPS, and not having to QT $225 worth of livestock all at once... etc. etc.

I know $225 isn't a lot to some of the big spenders on here. That could just be one fish or coral. But to most folks, it's a big deal and a prohibitive reason not to buy online. I know a lot of people who still exclusively buy from LFS for livestock, because doing that enables them to buy 1 or 2 inexpensive fish at a time. They can spend what they can afford.
 
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ca1ore said:
But isn't that just what liveaquaria does? I know DD QTs fish, ands sells at a premium, but I thought LA just 'flipped'? Though, frankly, the cost of LA fish with the 14 day guarantee is no higher than most of my LFS.
Click to expand...

Actually, Divers Den acclimates fish. As they carefully say on their website, be sure to quarantine all fish. In any case, what LFS do is totally a function of the business model. They may know that either implicitly or directly. Aquarium maintenance companies have a completely different business model, and many guarantee fish.
 
HumbleFish said:
LA is basically just a middleman for Quality Marine. Their only facility is in Wisconsin, where the DD stuff comes from. Otherwise, it's coming direct from Quality. But the advantage a LFS has over an online place such as LA is not having to shell out $225 all at once to get "free shipping". And being able to see the specimen before you buy, and not having to wait around all day on UPS, and not having to QT $225 worth of livestock all at once... etc. etc.

I know $225 isn't a lot to some of the big spenders on here. That could just be one fish or coral. But to most folks, it's a big deal and a prohibitive reason not to buy online. I know a lot of people who still exclusively buy from LFS for livestock, because doing that enables them to buy 1 or 2 inexpensive fish at a time. They can spend what they can afford.
Click to expand...

And you just made the point why aquarists (in general, not "the big spenders on here" as you say) won't pay more for fish at an LFS to be properly quarantined.
 
On a related issue (may be related or not depending on your perspective), LFS, depending on their spending pattern, may or may not get premium livestock. So, again, "the big spenders on here" may not be able to get the livestock they want, hence they end up going to high volume online retailers who spend enough with the distributer to be able to cherry pick livestock. Again, everything comes back to understanding the business model. I know I keep harping on that, but sadly it is true.
 
snorvich said:
Well, having been employed as a consultant to several LFS, unfortunately I can relay that the vast majority of hobbyists are looking for cheap fish, even more so with corals. Since, the business model for a brick and mortar LFS without either a significant maintenance or non-marine fish income component does not currently work, any price increase will decrease total volume and result in the store failing sooner. I wish it were not the case, I personally would pay much more if I felt that fish were truly parasite free.
Click to expand...

x2

Here in the San Antonio area in 25 years I have seen two excellent stores go under for that reason. They QT'd every fish for minimum of two weeks but since they had to charge for that service they could not compete because at the end of the day people are about cheap and don't want to pay an extra $20 for a fish.
 
alton said:
Here in the San Antonio area in 25 years I have seen two excellent stores go under for that reason. They QT'd every fish for minimum of two weeks but since they had to charge for that service they could not compete because at the end of the day people are about cheap and don't want to pay an extra $20 for a fish.
Click to expand...

Agreed, though it's short-term thinking. Assuming most people do not QT new fish (not an unreasonable assumption) the survival rate of a pre-QT'd fish would be much higher than not, and save the buyer money in the long-run. But I guess most people don't think in those terms, as evidenced by the propensity to buy cheap Chinese gear.
 
snorvich said:
Actually, Divers Den acclimates fish.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that they treated for worms as a matter of course, and observed/treated for things like ich? As well as getting the fish to eat? Am I mistaken? Regardless, not a full QT, I grant you that, and not substitute for a home QT. Only fish I bought over the last 10 years that did not go through QT chez moi was a DD trio of vermiculate leopard wrasses, and I agonized about that one.

Is interesting, though. While I wouldn't consider myself necessarily to be one of the 'big spenders', I seem to have no problem getting to $225 when considering my periodic fish purchases. Given that I do QT almost all fish, I have found myself actually preferring to not pay the DD premium, figuring that the LA 14 day guarantee will get me through any potential initial rough patches and my own QT process will be good after that. In fact, of the last 20 fish I have bought, I only lost one after the first two weeks (about a 75% success rate overall in getting fish to the display).
 
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ca1ore said:
Is interesting, though. While I wouldn't consider myself necessarily to be one of the 'big spenders', I seem to have no problem getting to $225 when considering my periodic fish purchases.
Click to expand...

I've organized several "group buys" from LA where I live (North Louisiana). Two small "metro areas" comprising over 600,000 people. We have 4 LFS that sell s/w, and 2 local reef boards to communicate with one another. And even still, I sometimes have to scramble to come up with enough people to reach that $225 threshold. Everybody just wants 1 or 2, $20-$30 fish. It wasn't much better when I lived in KC, a decent sized city.
 
HumbleFish said:
I've organized several "group buys" from LA where I live (North Louisiana). Two small "metro areas" comprising over 600,000 people. We have 4 LFS that sell s/w, and 2 local reef boards to communicate with one another. And even still, I sometimes have to scramble to come up with enough people to reach that $225 threshold. Everybody just wants 1 or 2, $20-$30 fish. It wasn't much better when I lived in KC, a decent sized city.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. I go out of my way to try to support my LFS for common and easy fish, and almost all inverts; but look to LA/DD for things that are not typically stocked locally or where the fish might be a bit trickier. Consequently the ticket price tends to be higher. For example, last LA purchase was a quartet of bimac anthias at $60 a pop - no problem getting to $225 :)
 
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