Low Alk= cyano?

[half5.0]

Ok I have researched this for quite awhile. I have looked down every path and this seems to make the most sense... My alk 5.5-6 and I have cyano (bad cyano.) Can this with low levels of nitrate and phosphate create a cyano outbreak? I have tried Phosban, vodka for 3 weeks and I skim like crazy, and top off with ro/di with a tds of 1. Will raising the alk help get the cyano out? The rest of the tank it doing well and no matter what I will raise it, I just hope this is the end. Thanks

Matt

Ps I hate cyano!

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

raising alkalinity (and pH) can help rid an aquarium of cyanobacteria. Kalkwasser is a good choice for this solution as it raises pH along with alkalinity and calcium levels.
Also make sure to run a skimmer and keep S.G. at 1.025-1.026

these suggestions might not be "silver bullet" cures for red slime but they will certainly push environmental conditions in the right direction for it's reduction.

 

[tmz]

If your alk is 5.5 dkh it's pretty low and corals and some other organisms will have difficulty . This will probably limit their ability to take up nutrients and ultimately cause stress and tissue loss. Dosing vodka can also contirbute to short term cyano outbreaks if you're not careful with the dose.

 

[half5.0]

Im only up to 1.6ml a day. This could make my cyano worse?

 

[firsttank]

Yup if you are not careful with vodka it will cause a bloom of cyno...also a 5.5 - 6 dkh is low...you should try to be above 7 dkh. My tank is start to see some cyno..barely noticeable though but my alk is at 10 dkh - I am not able to connect the dots in my case..not to say that high alk wont work but in my case may be I am not seeing because the cyno is just startting...

 

[Billybeau1]

From my experience, high alkalinity will not limit or stop cyno from growing. I did an experiment awhile back and ran my tank at 15 dkh for about 3 weeks with no noticeable decrease in cyno.

I agree with the others though that you should get your alk up a little.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15231932#post15231932 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
From my experience, high alkalinity will not limit or stop cyno from growing. I did an experiment awhile back and ran my tank at 15 dkh for about 3 weeks with no noticeable decrease in cyno.

IME it depends on the amount of "cyano fuel" in the aquarium. With extremely high levels of nutrients alkalinity will not (noticeably) limit or stop cyanobacteria growth. With DOC levels teetering just on the brink of fueling cyano growth high stable pH and alkalinity can have an obvious detrimental effect on cyanobacteria growth.

 

[Billybeau1]

I'll buy that. I suppose the folks who experienced positive results had much less NO₃ then I did. This could be the difference.

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15230711#post15230711 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by half5.0
Im only up to 1.6ml a day. This could make my cyano worse?

It's possible if not directly then by way of some by product of the bacterial activity th extra organic carbon supports.There are numerous reports of cyanobacterial growth associated with carbon dosing (vodka. vinegar , sugar,etc.) in the threads on tehm.

Your dose does not seem high. Mine is doulble that and I consider it very moderate.. I've been at that level for over 5 months . I also use two large skimmers and skim wet. If your skimmer is inadequate the extra food(organic carbon) you put in as vodka won't come out. I had some patchy cyano appear in one tank for a couple of weeks, never very much. It disappeared when I stopped the sugar part of the vodka,vinegar,sugar miix, I was using.

Vodka is used to decrease phosphate and nitrate. What are your levels? Have you used traditional methods to reduce them. Limiting detrius accumulation, heavy skimming, running carbon, limited but adequate feeding, refugia with macro algae.

 

[Boomer]

Gary

raising alkalinity (and pH) can help rid an aquarium of cyanobacteria. Kalkwasser is a good choice for this solution as it raises pH along with alkalinity and calcium levels


I have never heard of that before for Cyano. Aren't you confusing this with the control of Dino's. Cyano does better than any other aquatic plant in high pH water, as its uptake rate constant is lower. It is actually a control, in small ponds, to lower the pH by injecting CO2 so other forms of algae can out compete the cyano. In waters very low in PO4, even if it shows none, they can still uptake phosphate but converting it to PO4 extracellularly. Cyano is mostly a nutrient issue both organic and inorganic and often accompanied by low flow rates.

 

[half5.0]

My Nitrates are rather low, around 5 so. I have yet to test for phosphates, but I would Imagine they are pretty high, I used to use tap water (lesson learned.) I run carbon and it is changed every 3 weeks and rinsed in ro. I have been running Phosban for 2.5 months and it gets changed every 4 weeks. To limit phosphates I swithed from flakes to Rod's vegetarian blend. As for flow... I have a quite one 900 gph and 2 maxi jet 1200's (one on each side.) Corals seem to be doing ok, including sps (knock on wood,) but this is very frustrating. I just picked up some buffer and Im going to try that. Any other suggestions? Thanks for all the help.

Matt

 

[tmz]

I'd definitely want to increase my alkalinity to at least 7 dkh. I perfer 10+. I would not dose a carbon source unless I knew my N and P levels and wuld monitor them with any dosing.

Good Luck.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15233190#post15233190 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
Gary

raising alkalinity (and pH) can help rid an aquarium of cyanobacteria. Kalkwasser is a good choice for this solution as it raises pH along with alkalinity and calcium levels


I have never heard of that before for Cyano. Aren't you confusing this with the control of Dino's. Cyano does better than any other aquatic plant in high pH water, as its uptake rate constant is lower. It is actually a control, in small ponds, to lower the pH by injecting CO2 so other forms of algae can out compete the cyano. In waters very low in PO4, even if it shows none, they can still uptake phosphate but converting it to PO4 extracellularly. Cyano is mostly a nutrient issue both organic and inorganic and often accompanied by low flow rates.

I believe everything you posted. I'm not confusing cyano with dinos. I don't know what they do in small ponds but I do know how I used to control cyano growth with large heavy doses of kalkwasser in a reef aquarium. Maybe I have the reasoning behind it all goofed up but it works.

 

[Boomer]

OK Gary

 

[Aqua_DHMO_Tech]

I do know how I used to control cyano growth with large heavy doses of kalkwasser in a reef aquarium. Maybe I have the reasoning behind it all goofed up but it works.

Kalkwasser is known to precipitate phosphate, I believe. Thus reducing or eliminating cyanobacteria.

 

[tmz]

It is hypothesized that calcium hydroxide precipitates some phosphate but not known for certain. The reasoning is sound but it has never been tested and proven. Even if it does wether a significant enough amount would be precipitated so as to limit cyanobacteria is dubious.

 

[DeathWish302]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15233190#post15233190 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
.....and often accompanied by low flow rates.

Hey Boomer - What is considered 'low' flow rates?

I started dosing Vodka to be able to feed more and the cyano went nuts. I have about 1000gph from the return, a Koralia 4 (~1200gph) and a Algae Free 1200 MJ Mod (~1000-Far less than the Koralia 4). This totals roughly 3000+ gph for a 58gallon.

If I add another PH, I'm going to need to go BB. Is this enough flow? I do notice that the cyano grows in the ends of the tank where the flow likely 'slows'.

 

[Boomer]

I don't have any numbers for you DW but almost to the point just below that which will cause sand rise off the SB. Cyano do not like high vel water like Dino's do. What we usually do is aim PH at the "infected" area.

As far a Vodka goes, I do not dare go there as I have never gotten into that subject at all and neither has Randy.

 

[luther1200]

I also heard many times that kalk will help control cyano. That is actually the method I used to rid my tank of it. And "knock on wood" I haven't had even the slightest patch since I started running kalk. Whether its proven or not I don't know. But IME bit worked. Maybe it was just a fluke or coincidence of something else I was unawair of. But that was the only change I made at the time.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Cyanobacteria can survive in just about every environment known to man on earth. They can adapt to many pH, alk & light conditions.

Your primary concern will be to keep your nitrate and phosphate levels in the recommended ranges. Also all your other water parameters should be kept in the proper rangers to encourage the growth of your coral which help compete for the available dissolved organic materials in your water column.

The biggest culprit which leads to cyano and algae problems is over feeding your fish and stocking to many fish in your system. These fish will produce ammonia as excrement products which the cyanobacteria can feed directly off of. As you stock more fish it will take more & more control measures to eliminate the ammonia and other organic carbons.

Your goal will be to reduce the amount of organic materials in your water column. Running GAC and changing it out will help, along with proper wet skimming habits where the cup is cleaned perhaps daily. Increased water changes will be very helpful in reducing the organic materials in your water column.

Next will be to declare war on the vegetative stage of the cyano. This means, siphoning, cleaning the glass, removing rocks and scrubbing or anything else you can think of to eliminate any visual stages in your tank. Using filters to help remove what you can not siphon out will be very helpful and cleaning these filters perhaps daily and immediately after doing your tank cleaning. You will have to use a lot of elbow grease and keep at this until the cyano is gone.

Higher wavelength bulbs will slow the growth of algae and cyano, but will not eliminate it. 10,000 K bulbs will cause more growth and 20,000 will reduce their growth the most. Any thing less than 10,000 K will not be advisable in your reef.

Refugiums will have to be cleaned also in the same manor as noted above. The lighting in refugiums can be very conducive to algae and cyano.

Chemical control may help but can have negative effects and may not last any longer than you dose it. Erythromycin seems to be the product of choice. It may be beneficial to help reduce the cyano if it is out of hand. After you get the cyano back under control, then diligence with the above methods should bring it under control to where it is not a problem. You will not completely eliminate cyano from your system, so when the conditions become right again it will pop back up.