Well said my friend :beer:
"Made in China" a Warning Label?
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Well said my friend :beer:
Ron Reefman
Active member
Many/most of you may be too young to remember this. But before China was even doing any serious exporting, about 50 years ago, there was another Asian country that had the exact same reputation for lack of quality that China has today. In the 1950's, 60's and into the 70's "Made in Japan" was an insult because all the goods imported into the US from Japan was cheap and of very poor quality. Sound familiar?
Well look at Japan now. The US struggled through the 90's and into the 21st century to make cars that are as good as those from Japan. Oh, and TV's and radios, and phonographs (I know, half of you don't even know what a phonograph was!), and CD players and cameras... the list goes on and on.
Soap Box Mode: on
So just because 'Made in China' is mostly a black mark against a brand today, don't expect it to be that way is 10 or 20 years. They are already adjusting to the world economy and the appetite for cheap products. And no matter how much you wish things were different, just look at this board and how many reefers are using equipment made in China. Jebao, EverGrow, MarsAqua, ReefBreeders, OceanRevive and so many more brands are now very popular here. And as China's manufacturing ability expands, and the look for new markets, they see that western cultures like better quality and China is moving in that direction.
Fifteen years ago Jebao was already selling pumps in the US, mostly for use in ponds. And their first aquarium sump pumps were really junk. And China's first led fixtures 5 years ago were really junk (and so were most of the ones made in the US as well). But Jebao has come a long way. I have 3 original DC12000 sump pumps that have been running full speed since a couple of months after they became available. And I have both a Maxspect Gyre and a Jebao Crossflow, honestly, I think the Crossflow is better built and at less than half the price! I bought EverGrow leds almost 4 years ago when they first entered the aquarium market. They were a late entry and came in with a pretty well made fixture at a very reasonable price. Mine 5 fixtures all worked fine and I just bought a new tank and needed a new fixture so I got 1 ReefBreeder Photon 50 V2 for less than what 1 EcoTech Radion would have cost... and over a 59" tank I would have needed 3 of them! $610 vs $2250. Now it isn't an equal to the Radion, but it's way, WAY closer than $1640 of my dollars is worth.
My point here guys, isn't that you are wrong to bash China. There are lots and lots of really crappy products coming here from China. But the tide is changing. Big companies in China see the trend. Now that they have the capacity to make it all, they will start to make it better and the US, Germany and Japan had all better keep their eye on the big picture. The future is globalization and there is no way to stop it short of some apocalyptic event.
Soap Box Mode: off
Well look at Japan now. The US struggled through the 90's and into the 21st century to make cars that are as good as those from Japan. Oh, and TV's and radios, and phonographs (I know, half of you don't even know what a phonograph was!), and CD players and cameras... the list goes on and on.
Soap Box Mode: on
So just because 'Made in China' is mostly a black mark against a brand today, don't expect it to be that way is 10 or 20 years. They are already adjusting to the world economy and the appetite for cheap products. And no matter how much you wish things were different, just look at this board and how many reefers are using equipment made in China. Jebao, EverGrow, MarsAqua, ReefBreeders, OceanRevive and so many more brands are now very popular here. And as China's manufacturing ability expands, and the look for new markets, they see that western cultures like better quality and China is moving in that direction.
Fifteen years ago Jebao was already selling pumps in the US, mostly for use in ponds. And their first aquarium sump pumps were really junk. And China's first led fixtures 5 years ago were really junk (and so were most of the ones made in the US as well). But Jebao has come a long way. I have 3 original DC12000 sump pumps that have been running full speed since a couple of months after they became available. And I have both a Maxspect Gyre and a Jebao Crossflow, honestly, I think the Crossflow is better built and at less than half the price! I bought EverGrow leds almost 4 years ago when they first entered the aquarium market. They were a late entry and came in with a pretty well made fixture at a very reasonable price. Mine 5 fixtures all worked fine and I just bought a new tank and needed a new fixture so I got 1 ReefBreeder Photon 50 V2 for less than what 1 EcoTech Radion would have cost... and over a 59" tank I would have needed 3 of them! $610 vs $2250. Now it isn't an equal to the Radion, but it's way, WAY closer than $1640 of my dollars is worth.
My point here guys, isn't that you are wrong to bash China. There are lots and lots of really crappy products coming here from China. But the tide is changing. Big companies in China see the trend. Now that they have the capacity to make it all, they will start to make it better and the US, Germany and Japan had all better keep their eye on the big picture. The future is globalization and there is no way to stop it short of some apocalyptic event.
Soap Box Mode: off
That's exactly right, and a basic tenant of supply/demand. Consumers want cheap, and routinely fail to understand that it's not just about the initial purchase price but the useful lifetime as well.
BTW, the reason that things are cheaper from China isn't necessarily about the inherent quality of components (though there is a lot of crap), it's about labor arbitrage. As labor rates invariably equalize over time, Chinese mfg. will lose much of this cost advantage.
moondoggy4
Team RC
Eheim compact
Eheim compact
The Eheim Compact pumps are made by Eden and they are Italian I believe, but who knows the where the parts are sourced. A lot of companies have burned by cheap parts sourced from somewhere else.
Eheim compact
The Eheim Compact pumps are made by Eden and they are Italian I believe, but who knows the where the parts are sourced. A lot of companies have burned by cheap parts sourced from somewhere else.
alton
Well-known member
Ron I will have to dis-agree with you on the Made in Japan as poor quality. Although people who made that claim did not own a Winchester 101 or Browning Citori. And it wasn't till Ford got with Mazda and Chevy got with Izuzu did there engines quit using more oil than gas. Back in the 60's there were still many that remembered a war also. I still have a couple friends that refuse to buy Made in Korea. They don't care what side of the border it comes from.
D-Nak
Active member
Not to derail this thread with a continued history lesson, but as alton mentioned, post WWII Germany and Japan had a lot of time to focus on technology and infrastructure since they didn't have to (or couldn't) worry about their military presence. Korea is another example though -- remember when Hyundai first came out with their car? If you kicked it, it would fall apart. Now Samsung and LG make some pretty decent stuff.
In my day I remember Taiwan being thrown around. Perhaps that was the 80's?
Look at aerospace. A lot has been moved into Mexico as well as other markets. You get rid of the ISO cert and the American dollar goes a bit further. The factories look like laboratories. It's crazy.
I was looking into another hot tub last year and the salesman threw out that the "new" factory was in Mexico. So I asked, do you still hold the ISO cert? He said "no". That tells me that production can be done however "they" see fit. At least with aerospace things must be inspected and approved before entering American air space. That goes for any country. Including China.
When one understands a product. Build origin doesn't matter much. My evergrow LED's keep on keeping on. Everybody else that I know who's owned them have crapped out. The difference.....I run at a lesser power then they did. Having said that, what's the difference then those running T-5 diy that have to replace the bulbs in 6months? Why? Cause they don't cool them properly. Honestly I bought mine because I knew the times would continue to change. Why spend top dollar to own a product that will be obsolete in a year? If your the type of person to have the latest and greatest.......your throwing money out the window buying "name brand". It's a status move IMO. I know I wouldn't give you top dollar for your old used lights when I can buy better for just a bit more. (When I say you, I'm referencing anybody.)
To the labor bit.....like I said earlier. GREED. You gotta buy the expensive stuff somehow.....right? No one stops to think that the end user unltimately pays for this stuff. If a line worker wants more money......the person buying it MUST pay more for it. (Airfare???) Don't think companies are just going to give up the cost difference/over run. They're in it for money too.
Edit:
Look at Twinkie a few years ago. The unions wouldn't budge and demanded more. Twinkie said no we can't.....the union said no. More.
Twinkie shut down.........
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CStrickland
New member
My main issue is that nobody ever sends samples in to triton when their tank is doing fine. Like, it's set up to be "there's a problem, go find out why" and then "oh noes! The unobtanium is off the charts!" I guess that's why they put in the aquarium, to show that tungsten is linked to failure to thrive, but that doesn't seem like much. I bet if triton offered free testing to happy tanks, and a bunch of successful reefers sent in samples, the results would be surprising.
Thread is entirely now off topic, also starting to head into a political debate :worried:
Back on topic- Ron brought up some good points, but I side with alton on the made in Japan issue, the Japanese manufacture some very well engineered stuff, 2JZ or rb26dett anyone? not to mention some of the reef tanks hailing out of Japan are pretty unbelievable.
CStrickland also brought up a great point on triton tests, and I agree I bet many of us would be surprised of some of our results even though our reef looks great.
Back on topic- Ron brought up some good points, but I side with alton on the made in Japan issue, the Japanese manufacture some very well engineered stuff, 2JZ or rb26dett anyone? not to mention some of the reef tanks hailing out of Japan are pretty unbelievable.
CStrickland also brought up a great point on triton tests, and I agree I bet many of us would be surprised of some of our results even though our reef looks great.
OllieNZ
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