Marine ich fallow period

Perth_reefer

Perth_reefer

Member
Ok so I know that there are heaps of different threads about this but I'm not sure which one to follow.
My tank has been fallow for 9 weeks today so I'm wondering how much longer I have to wait before I can reintroduce my fish from quarantine.

According to this thread I have a 99.7% chance of eradicating the disease today (9 weeks):-

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951

According to this thread by the same poster I had a 99.8% chance of eradicating the disease 3 weeks ago:-

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388421

Have I gone another 3 weeks fallow for no reason? There is also the talk of leaving the tank fallow for 72 days to be 99.9% sure of eradication.

Which one is more accurate?

Paul
 
kenpau said:
Yes I reckon you're right mate. It's just frustrating reading so many conflicting reports though!
Click to expand...

I'm 6 months into the hobby and the biggest challenge I've dealt with is figuring out what to believe out of all the conflicting information. What I try to do is figure out what I want to believe and make sure I'm not just looking for evidence of that. I have read a lot of very convincing stuff about the 72 day period though.

The most recent thing I stopped using was garlic. I read EVERYWHERE that it's great for fish, helps their immune system, best stuff ever. But I just came across a lot of the people I respect on this site saying they all think the garlic stuff is a myth.

So the conflicting info battle never ends. I just try to find the most experienced people, and listen to them.
 
I think the thing with garlic is that it is appetising to fish, so if the food is soaked with garlic the more likely they are to eat the food. The more food they eat the healthier they are...I don't think garlic has a direct influence of immune response.
 
kenpau said:
I think the thing with garlic is that it is appetising to fish, so if the food is soaked with garlic the more likely they are to eat the food. The more food they eat the healthier they are...I don't think garlic has a direct influence of immune response.
Click to expand...

Long term, garlic is not good for fish. There are better ways to get problematic fish to start eating. Nutrama Ova always works, live blackworms works and is very good for fish, etc.
 
I don't feed garlic, that is just what I have heard is the reasoning behind people saying that it improves immune response.
While you're on this thread Steve any chance you clarify your findings about the ich fallow period as there seems to be a few differences between your two posts.
 
kenpau said:
I don't feed garlic, that is just what I have heard is the reasoning behind people saying that it improves immune response.
While you're on this thread Steve any chance you clarify your findings about the ich fallow period as there seems to be a few differences between your two posts.
Click to expand...

The guaranteed removal of ich fallow period is 72 days. Some people go less; sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not. The generalized "twice the average life cycle" is what many do (which would be 30 days) when it comes to treatment with chemicals. I am not in agreement with that as I want to be certain. 12 days of tank transfer is a certainty if the rules are followed.
 
Thats what I'm heading for, although it has been tough waiting 10 weeks, so just out of interest I was wondering about your findings and whether the chance of eradication was 99.8% after 6 weeks or 99.7% after 9 weeks?
 
kenpau said:
Thats what I'm heading for, although it has been tough waiting 10 weeks, so just out of interest I was wondering about your findings and whether the chance of eradication was 99.8% after 6 weeks or 99.7% after 9 weeks?
Click to expand...

my view is that any answers to that are inconsequential. what may have worked for others very well won't work for you. and you are the one taking the risk, not the others.

it all just comes down to how unlucky you are to get that one stubborn cyst that waits out hatching for a long time. keep in mind that most hatch between 5-8 days. there is suspicion that the research on Ich that did stay 72 days were under non-typical environment specs, such as much colder water or a non-reef standard salinity. unfortunately the research just leaves us hanging on that point though. so it very likely it would be perfectly fine to just do 5-6 weeks, and that is why you may see plenty of people say "it worked for me"; however, if you put your faith in the available research, then we wait out the 72 days.

And food for thought... the 72 days was what was noticed in a controlled environment looking at hundreds, maybe thousands or more, of parasites; in reality there are billions, if not trillions, of these little buggers around the globe. Surely at some point in time a cyst stayed encysted for well over 72 days. It is unlikely that the controlled environment just by pure lottery-worthy chance found the longest encysted cyst in history :fish1:
 
So I guess all the posts stating 6 weeks or 9 weeks or 10 weeks really are irrelevant. There is no way to accurately state what % chance you have of the ich being gone without knowing what strain you have in your system.
Further to that if the research didn't find the longest encrusted cyst in history then maybe we should be waiting 12 weeks or 16!!
At the end of the day it's a difficult call to make as to when to add your fish back into the tank and I was trying to ascertain whether I'd waited long enough already. I guess most the posts about timescales are pure speculation and you take your risk whenever you return fish to the system, we just don't know enough about the life cycle to be sure.
 
kenpau said:
I guess most the posts about timescales are pure speculation and you take your risk whenever you return fish to the system, we just don't know enough about the life cycle to be sure.
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this is mostly the case, yes. 99.9% is really all anyone can reliable say. just never know.

luck is a major player in that game as well! all we can do is aid Ms. Luck along as much as we can.
 
Most of the research done on this parasite that I've seen is extremely outdated. Does anyone have any information that has been published in the last ten years?
 
snorvich said:
The guaranteed removal of ich fallow period is 72 days. ...
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Guaranteed?
One study found that one out of just 8 (cultured!) Cryptocaryon strains used in that study may stay encysted for up to 72 days.
But there is no evidence that there are not other wild and currently unknown strains that can stay encysted even longer.
Based on current knowledge 72 days gives you a decent likelihood of 99.9% that all Cryptocaryon is gone after an outbreak but by no means it is 100% guaranteed.

snorvich said:
There are many strains of cryptocaryon irritans.
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My point exactly. And given the size of the oceans it is not likely all are known to science.
There will always be some residual risk.
 
ThRoewer said:
Guaranteed?
One study found that one out of just 8 (cultured!) Cryptocaryon strains used in that study may stay encysted for up to 72 days.
But there is no evidence that there are not other wild and currently unknown strains that can stay encysted even longer.
Based on current knowledge 72 days gives you a decent likelihood of 99.9% that all Cryptocaryon is gone after an outbreak but by no means it is 100% guaranteed.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this. I find it frustrating on this site that the default response for anyone with ich is 'fallow for 72 days'. The study they did certainly leaves a lot of grey area to interpret, to the point that you do see a lot of conflicting information.
Such as here:-

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951

and here:-

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388421

Which give vastly different time frames for fallow periods.
 
kenpau said:
I completely agree with this. I find it frustrating on this site that the default response for anyone with ich is 'fallow for 72 days'. The study they did certainly leaves a lot of grey area to interpret, to the point that you do see a lot of conflicting information.
Such as here:-

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951

and here:-

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388421

Which give vastly different time frames for fallow periods.
Click to expand...

Just to point out, those posts you referenced are 3 years apart. Could be why they have conflicting information.
 
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