maximum export sump design

picker

picker

New member
If the goal is to maximize nutrient export and mechanical filters often just speed detritus breakdown, perhaps we should reverse the classic filter design.

sump1.png


With a convenient settling zone we can export solids directly and perhaps not as frequently if it was in a high flow area. A well lit zone for growing hair algae on a removable screen for export, skimmer and socks for fine particle and bubble removal.

What am I missing?
 
So what's the clarifier settling zone mean?

I was just getting ready to post a DIY sump for review, but will wait for responses on this first... One of my considerations was very easy to instal and remove sock filter and carbon filter inserts (because I don't run them all the time). However - that's been one of my main considerations - collecting and removal of the detritus.

I guess as far as the mechanical filtration goes, you're saying that slowing your flow rate through the sock might cause less breakdown/nutrients disolved back into the water? ... makes sense.

As far as your GH Algae wall - it seems that you're kind of re-inventing the wheel on the algae scrubber - which I would probably look at those specifications and threads before moving forward with that part of it. The ATS on my main return line is part of my sump design consideration as well. I'm sold on algae scrubbers after using them for the past 2.5 years or so... so I support the concept.

edit: in addition - the pump return area seems small... One of my other considerations was to make sure the whole system easily handles wavemaker/surges.
 
> So what's the clarifier settling zone mean?

an expanding area to slow the flow allowing the solids to settle to the bottom for easy cleanup.

> slowing your flow rate through the sock

maximizing the socks area (lots of socks, standing tall, fully submerged) minimizes the flow, the unique (if there is such a thing) theory is the socks are the last item in the filter, so they get "clean" water.
 
good thoughts. I may look at applying these principals to tweak what I was thinking on my design - although I have about 20 versions drawn of mine already. :) Also - as far as layout goes - you want to be able to easily access that settling zone for cleaning - so that should probably be in the front But you also need to access and remove the socks easily. I know most sump areas are tight...

So - what are tips at maximizing that settling zone efficiency? (allowing for best settling in the zone) method of water entry?: parallel with floor probably as low as possible? - high baffle wall so there's more for the partacles to climb?
 
Looks nice! but how are u going to export the detritus that sets inside the sump... as I understand from the drawing the water falls on the tilted area (algae growth) and then falls to a common area where maybe you can put LR and/or chaeto but how can the detritus be easily removed without having to empty the sump??

The design has several great ideas! tilted input, socks as final stage really like it!
 
Easiest way to export detritus is with a conical settling tank. I haven't used an algae scrubber, so I can't speak to there effectiveness, but if we are removing the detritus before it breaks down in our systems, there should not be nutrients available to grow algae in the first place.
 
SUPPOReefer said:
Easiest way to export detritus is with a conical settling tank. I haven't used an algae scrubber, so I can't speak to there effectiveness, but if we are removing the detritus before it breaks down in our systems, there should not be nutrients available to grow algae in the first place.
Click to expand...

Obviously, in practice - you're not going to remove all before breakdown from your whole system, and you still have fish waste and feedings which turns into plenty of 'nutrients' for algae growth (don't believe that is all detritus in first stages, is it?.. maybe it is.).

But in my mind - the idea is to keep as clean a system as possible (not just N's and P levels down) With a Scrubber over the past couple years - I've very effectively kept nitrates at practically 0 and phosphates well below .25 - but detritus buildup was very high. My sump was a 5 gallon bucket (out of site, out of mind) which I had minimal access to. I didn't have high enough flow throughout the tank to keep the detritus from settling in all the rockwork (even with turkey baster blastings), and in retrospect, I didn't have a big enough cleaning crew. When I transferred everything from that 29 gal to my new 115 a few weeks ago and started breaking down the old system, it made me realize how dirty my system actually was. My livestock and coral all seem to be thriving, but thier old environment was filthy.

So I guess that's my focus right now - is what can I do to keep not only healthy measurable levels, but also to keep it clean as easily as possible. Which is why I'm interested in this thread... as I'm in planning phase of my own sump. I'm using a 15gal now - and it's just not big enough.

So how do you implement a conical tank? I was actually thinking of the cone thing last night... Never heard of it in practice before you posted, but was thinking you could do something with a cone - even maybe a cyclone action (like a dyson vacuum)... don't know if that'd be possible with detritus though.

edit: btw - that powerroll thing is very clever... but did you see the price?!
 
Conical settling tanks are (typically) placed between the overflow and the sump. Water flows slowly in the tank and allows detritus an area to settle (the bottom of the tank). Detritus removal is as easy as turning a valve at the bottom of the tank. This is dependent on having enough flow in the display, that detritus isn't settling there. I try to keep flow in my DT at least 50x volume. I also run bare bottom so I can see if any detritus settles in the display.
 
I looked at the specs on that settling tank and it looked as if there was a hole in the top where they water would get in from your overflow, and a hole in the bottom where the water would flow out when you were draining off the settled detritus, but shouldn't there should be another hole for normal flow out of the tank and to the sump?

The only sump design issue that I see is that the sump would be hard to get the settled sludge out. The easiest way would be with a siphon, but since a sump is generally on the ground (or pretty close) it would be hard to start. An option would be to have a bulkhead with a ball valve and hose on the side wall of that chamber that you could open when you want to clean it.
 
I figured (with a similar 'settling zone' idea in mind) - that I'd get a battery powered aquarium vacuum for clean-up... I've read about people designing sumps with a very specific area where detritus is expected to build - where they place a small pump that they use for water changes. It pulls out the detritus with it. I don't know how well it works in practice though.

Oh, and based on what SuppoReefer said - I'd expect some sort of outlet near the top of that tank as well. This one may just not be for our purpose.
 
The conical settling area is a very good idea... put it before the first sump design and it would do a great job... Maybe on practice you wouldnt remove detritus daily but weekly will do for me!
 
Did you see how it rolls back the filter to get most life out of it? Pretty clever... But redonculous expensive. :thumbdown
 
I'm a fan of no-sump. I don't see anything positive that a sump does for coral growth. Yes sumpless is harder for top off, etc, but for food delivery to corals, I think it is best because all particles are recirculated immediately to the corals.
 
Pros of having a sump: Nutrient export, place to put equipment, increased water volume.

Cons: Energy efficiency.

I don't see how food delivery to corals makes either list. A well-designed sump area could even supply natural foods to corals.
 
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