Mike's 300 Double-D

[teesquare]

i was considering a 150 cube from marineland and never really cared for any tank manufacturers tanks....marineland, aga, usually sloppy silicone work and cut corners to maximize profit. I will now be going A.G.E.

You really ought to actually LOOK at a current generation Marineland tank...no sloppy anything! Absolutely the best finish work available at any price.

And...just something to consider ala A.G.E......Think about two basic materials engineering principals:
1. the impact of different co-efficients of expansion/contraction when depending on a bond of two dissimilar materials

2. The known and calculable hygroscopic nature of PVC - vs - glass.

Just something to keep you awake at nite....:spin1:

Cheers!:beer:
T

 

[prop-frags]

You really ought to actually LOOK at a current generation Marineland tank...no sloppy anything! Absolutely the best finish work available at any price.

And...just something to consider ala A.G.E......Think about two basic materials engineering principals:
1. the impact of different co-efficients of expansion/contraction when depending on a bond of two dissimilar materials

2. The known and calculable hygroscopic nature of PVC - vs - glass.

Just something to keep you awake at nite....:spin1:

Cheers!:beer:
T

Howdy Tee. This is Terry... After I read your post, I had to go look up hygroscopic, lol.

 

[teesquare]

Sorry Terry - I should have clarified: My post was really a response to luvreefs23...and I have to use a few $5 words occasionally to prove to my parents that all that there ed-u-ma-ca-shun paid off!:spin3:

T

 

[prop-frags]

Tee, I knew your post wasn't directed to us. As a former programmer in the banking field for many years, I can't say as I've ever come across that word before. Now that I understand it, I might have to work it into a conversation sometime... Have a good night!

 

[teesquare]

Nite Terry and Mike!

I will provide more geeky words later!!!:spin1:

T

 

[prop-frags]

We figured many of you might be interested in an update since our disaster.

The generosity and kindness of our local reef club is overwhelming... "adversity reveals character" they say, and we're certainly seeing that in spades with the way so many have reached out with moral support or physical support!

Much has happened since the flood on Monday 9/13/10...
We put everything into temporary holding vats, the 125g sump, and the 75g frag/refugium tank. We did a bunch of re-plumbing and temporary lighting to keep the livestock alive as best can.

Then our friend Rick really saved the day by offering up his awesome 350g Oceanic tank for us to use. Rick - you and Randie are the BEST!

Terry worked the phones and the WWW like nobody's business early in the week to pull together a team of folks to help us move Rick's behemoth tank over to our garage. The tank is 900 lbs if an ounce! For sure, we needed every bit of 8 strong men to move it. Our good friend LB brought the truck and trailer that allowed us to carry both the tank and stand. Thanks, LB!

I'm sure I'll miss several if I attempt to list out everyone who has helped us over this very trying week, but thanks to Cody, Jon, Bobby, Rob, David, Matt, Chuck & Milissa, Tricia & George, Mark, Andy, Joe, my goodness the list goes on and on!

Here's some pics from the move night:

Getting the big ol' 350 leveled up! (We shimmed the stand with acrylic slices) - the guys gave me hell for my safety glasses LoL!
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryl93/5002848493/" title="fw 487 by terryl93, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4103/5002848493_fced2d1d86.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="fw 487" /></a>

David explains some orientation theory:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryl93/5003455836/" title="fw 486 by terryl93, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4105/5003455836_d43506ef41.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="fw 486" /></a>

LB being a ham waving to the camera!
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryl93/5003455934/" title="fw 488 by terryl93, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5003455934_f448655e00.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="fw 488" /></a>

And the fruits of our labor today... got the 350 plumbed into the system, filled up, and much of the coral moved over. Joe helped with bringing over the 150g water vat, and getting the canopy from the display tank installed:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryl93/5002848435/" title="fw 479 by terryl93, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4085/5002848435_15bb893565.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="fw 479" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryl93/5003455982/" title="fw 478 by terryl93, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4104/5003455982_7e55cf3c71.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="fw 478" /></a>

Thanks again for all the help everyone!
Honestly, there have been some very dark moments this week, where the thoughts of giving up on this hobby have entered into our minds and our conversations, but it is the support of you all that gives us the lift we need to keep going...

THANKS!

 

[110galreef]

That is awesome the tragedy has thus far worked out fairly well:beer:

 

[prop-frags]

That is awesome the tragedy has thus far worked out fairly well:beer:

We are very fortunate and awed at the support of our fellow reefer friends, both locally and out-of-town. As bad as this disaster was, it could have been much worse.

Thankfully our insurance is going to cover replacement of our hardwood floors, electrical repairs, and insulation replacement under our house. Once we get repairs out of the way, things should start looking much better.

 

[crvz]

That's great news, Mike. Glad to hear that the insurance is stepping in... I made sure our policy was written to cover any damage from the tank just for that reason.

Do you have any more elaboration on why the tank seam let go?

 

[jrcastro]

Glad to hear that a most of the livestock are in a safe home.

This reminds me of a simalar issue that happened to me with a 210 gallon (All glass/Aqueon) tank a few years ago. After the tank was running for a week or so, one of the bottom seems gave out and completely drained in about 10 mins. Luckily I was home and was able to save thousands in livestock by moving to an empty tank.

The main culprit was most likely the stand not being 100% level. But mind you it was only off less then an 1/8 of an inch. Or it could have been too much LR on one area of the glass. After that disaster I decided to go acrylic on my last 2 tanks. I'd rather have scratches in my tanks then water on my floors. :hmm5:

My 2 cts is: when Marineland gives you a replacement tank. Double check the level all the way around on your stand.

Good luck and glad you have not lost interest in this wonderful hobby!

 

[prop-frags]

That's great news, Mike. Glad to hear that the insurance is stepping in... I made sure our policy was written to cover any damage from the tank just for that reason.

Do you have any more elaboration on why the tank seam let go?

You're a smart man, Chris. We just got lucky, since we didn't have the forethought to check our policy in advance. Hope all you large tank folks are reading this - please go check your homeowners or renters policies and make sure you'd be covered in case of a big leak. Note that our policy would not have covered this in the instance of "continuous or repeated seepage or leakage of water or steam over a period of time..."

Glad to hear that a most of the livestock are in a safe home.

This reminds me of a simalar issue that happened to me with a 210 gallon (All glass/Aqueon) tank a few years ago. After the tank was running for a week or so, one of the bottom seems gave out and completely drained in about 10 mins. Luckily I was home and was able to save thousands in livestock by moving to an empty tank.

The main culprit was most likely the stand not being 100% level. But mind you it was only off less then an 1/8 of an inch. Or it could have been too much LR on one area of the glass. After that disaster I decided to go acrylic on my last 2 tanks. I'd rather have scratches in my tanks then water on my floors. :hmm5:

My 2 cts is: when Marineland gives you a replacement tank. Double check the level all the way around on your stand.

Good luck and glad you have not lost interest in this wonderful hobby!

Thanks JR, appreciate you sharing that.

In terms of what may have caused the failure, there's nothing definitive. The stand is level. The installer took great care to ensure that the stand and tank were spot-on...if it was off, it was imperceptible - certainly was less than 1/16", as we have had many large tank veterans take a look at it. In terms of stand structural integrity, we are going to up our game. Four months ago, an engineer Paul posted on our thread about some concerns he had. Once we showed better pictures, he agreed that the stand looked sufficient.

This week, we had the quartz counters, display tank, stand, and cabinets removed. It's been hard watching all that work come un-done. However, since we now have the rare opportunity to revisit our design, We'd like to solicit more opinions from you guys. How can/should we improve upon the stand design? Plywood on the top? 2x6 for length-wise beams?

 

[crvz]

I plan on 2x8s doubled up for my lengthwise beams (however after I jointed them, they are only about 6.75" tall, instead of 7.25"), though I won't have any middle support along the span. I also intend to stick plywood on top once it's built.

 

[twiggyb]

Holy frijoles, I just read this whole thread over the coarse of last night and today and didn't see this coming?! So sorry your tank sprung, glad to hear your local/out of town reefers were there to help. Glad to hear you're not getting out. I can't imagine how I'd feel if my tank popped on me. I wish you the best on your re-build and will be following along.

 

[my180reef]

Sorry to hear about your tank hope to see it back together soon.

 

[prop-frags]

I plan on 2x8s doubled up for my lengthwise beams (however after I jointed them, they are only about 6.75" tall, instead of 7.25"), though I won't have any middle support along the span. I also intend to stick plywood on top once it's built.

Chris - thanks for sharing - we'll keep a close eye on your thread. We've lost some sleep here for sure wondering if there was something more we should have done on the strength of our stand. Paul has been great in helping with some offline consulting about both the stand and structural support under the floor of our display room. More to come on all that...

Holy frijoles, I just read this whole thread over the coarse of last night and today and didn't see this coming?! So sorry your tank sprung, glad to hear your local/out of town reefers were there to help. Glad to hear you're not getting out. I can't imagine how I'd feel if my tank popped on me. I wish you the best on your re-build and will be following along.

Daniel, thanks for chiming in. We are working hard here to keep our chins up and find the ray of sunshine in all of this. RC and our local reefclub have been lifesavers! We probably sound like broken records, but honestly, we would likely have given up without all the outpouring of help and support.

Sorry to hear about your tank hope to see it back together soon.

Thanks my180reef...positive comments from folks like you really do help!

:fish1:

A little update.
As we mentioned earlier, we've gotten the display all torn out. The last two weeks has been non-stop talking to adjusters & contractors, moving furniture, installing fans and de-humidifiers, taking care of the temporary tank/system, and wondering "why"??!

Today, the flooring contractors came and ripped out the floors:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryl93/5037222567/" title="fw 549 by terryl93, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5037222567_a3c1279856.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="fw 549" /></a>

kinda sad, but kinda happy too. :hmm3: On the one hand, it really sucks to see all that hard work undone, but this also kinda helps put some "turning the corner" into our days...

We were thinking at one point that perhaps we could get away with just running the fans and letting the floors and crawlspace dry out. Not a chance. When the floor came up today, there were some very wet spots under there. The flooring contractors have a moisture meter they use to measure moisture on the subfloors. A measurement of 8 was "acceptable". In the fish room, we were measuring 16+, and 12+ in the adjoining hallway and bathroom (see post #15 for floorplan). The water had run quite a ways under the hardwood flooring in addition to pouring down to the crawlspace.

Here's under the house - yep, fans and dehumidifiers under there too... Let us just say that large tanks are awesome, until they leak and then they are big trouble. We vacuumed many, many gallons of salt water up from under the house and pulled out about 300 sq ft of insulation - that's NO FUN. :sad2:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryl93/5031809888/" title="fw 532 by terryl93, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5031809888_d44302ae2a.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="fw 532" /></a>

Now comes the waiting. It will probably be 7-10 days of running the fans, A/C, and dehumidifiers full-tilt before the new floors can be installed. In the meantime, we'll be focusing on strengthening the stand, ordering a newer better display tank, and reinforcing the floors and supports.

Out in the garage, we've been working hard to keep the "loaner 350" (Thanks Rick!!) up and running, and getting it tuned in so we minimize our livestock losses. Lots of work there and Terry has been a real trooper to help with top-off, maintaining water chemistry, manually running lights, etc.
You guys can just imagine having to essentially switch over to manual mode for a set up of this size and complexity!

Anyway, here's a shot of the 350:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/terryl93/5027984111/" title="DSC_3442 by terryl93, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/5027984111_c10131da4e.jpg" width="500" height="332" alt="DSC_3442" /></a>

Thanks for watching!

 

[teesquare]

Just a thought.....

Just a thought.....

Mike -
If you are thinking of beefing up the structural rigidity for your tank, you might want to look at acquiring some "LVL" material from a lumber yard. They often have some which are left overs, or damaged on one end that you can buy cheap.

LVL is "Linear Veneer Lumber. It is incredibly strong, and dense. Probably used for the main beam in you house or for some critiacla applications in your home. It is comprised of thin veneers of wood, heat and pressure glued with epoxy-phenolic adhesive for an engineered wood beam that is often used where steel used to be the choice. it will not rot ( In our lifetimes anyway...) and can be worked with conventional wood-working tools. I recommend pre-drilling tho. Just makes for neater install.

MUCH stronger than any 2x lumber. Just for peace of mind.......

T

 

[dave.m]

"Laminated" Veneer Lumber. Basically it is oriented wood strands in resins. Super strong.

Sorry to be anal.

Dave.M

 

[teesquare]

No problem Dave....but I think "Laminated" applies only in Canada - and is a direct reference to what happens when one drinks WAY to much beer.

"Linear veneer" is NOT "oriented strand board ( OSB for us in the south). But in either case - I think Mike gets the point!

T

 

[Reef Happy]

Hi Mike, Sorry to hear of the sad situation you have with the leaking tank. What a mess water can make in a house. But the good news is it looks like you will be back better than before. But again, I thought what you had was nice before. Glad you have so many locally that can help.

 

[crvz]

corals are still looking good in the 350... hope they continue to thrive even through all the changes.