You're in for an unhappy future then ..... sorry to say!
Sure hope this device makes it affordably to market and does what 'they' say it does. My pessimistic nature still thinks this it a 'believe it when I can buy it' McGuffin. But we shall see.
Mindstream Aquarium Monitoring System
- Thread starter dtaranath
- Start date
You're in for an unhappy future then ..... sorry to say!
Sure hope this device makes it affordably to market and does what 'they' say it does. My pessimistic nature still thinks this it a 'believe it when I can buy it' McGuffin. But we shall see.
soulpatch
New member
if the year subscription price for 1000 on the site is an indicator of disks then we are looking at roughly 45 a disk.
1000 - 495 = 505 505/11 (1 disk in 495 price) = 45.91
THat is a large price to pay monthly and they will need to drop that considerably I would think for this to be successful. The initial 5-600 price doesnt deter me but the cost to keep it running does. Even if I tested daily I would not clear 600 a year in tests which makes this cost a HUGE barrier....
1000 - 495 = 505 505/11 (1 disk in 495 price) = 45.91
THat is a large price to pay monthly and they will need to drop that considerably I would think for this to be successful. The initial 5-600 price doesnt deter me but the cost to keep it running does. Even if I tested daily I would not clear 600 a year in tests which makes this cost a HUGE barrier....
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
I agree with you on this and I hope that the cost indeed will go down. It was a huge blow to go from a disc lasting 90 days to only 30, but still paying the same high price for it.
soulpatch
New member
if I paid $45 or so every 3 months then I would be on board. Figure daily testing with a regular $60 kit will get you perhaps 4 months so you would be ballpark but this woudl be automated taking away the hassle.
If they were smart they would do subscription pricing where you pay up front for a year and get it at severly reduced prices.
As of now I am in a wait and see mode on these disks. I want the automation of this unit but there is a line in the sand when it comes to cost and they are well beyond it at this point.
If they were smart they would do subscription pricing where you pay up front for a year and get it at severly reduced prices.
As of now I am in a wait and see mode on these disks. I want the automation of this unit but there is a line in the sand when it comes to cost and they are well beyond it at this point.
Sempiternal
New member
That monthly cost has completely killed the prospect of me getting one.
I'd be looking at over $60 aussie every month to replace the disks? They've got to be kidding.
What happened to a single disk lasting 90 days for the same price?
Shame really, I've been keeping my eye on this one for a long time.
I'd be looking at over $60 aussie every month to replace the disks? They've got to be kidding.
What happened to a single disk lasting 90 days for the same price?
Shame really, I've been keeping my eye on this one for a long time.
I've sent them a message about this. I would want to see an assessment of their accuracy on the alkalinity measurement, in the same way they have done for pH.
Measuring alkalinity without titration is a holy grail. I assume they are using daily CO2 fluctuations as a sort of titration but I don't know how viable that is. It's an interesting idea but if it were that simple I don't know why someone hasn't done it before.
cmcoker
New member
But is the unit cost gonna be $495? That looks like beta tester price, as the same package goes up to $695 for March '16 delivery....
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check out his input on this on RtooR in the updated mindstream thread.
Too much of a gimmick IMO, does things I could care less about, has accuracy concerns, costs substantially more than I spend now on testing, cloud based, too unique (when they go out of business, it will brick your gadget), and not necessary in the least. In fact, I think it has the potential to cause more harm than good for those that like to chase numbers. Think about that for a minute. Imagine real time numbers, gonna drive those folks crazy!
Really, this is for the noob who eschews hard work and thinks this is the secret to an easy to maintain reef and for the gadget guy who likes to tinker with hardware and connect things to the internet.
I'll pass.
Really, this is for the noob who eschews hard work and thinks this is the secret to an easy to maintain reef and for the gadget guy who likes to tinker with hardware and connect things to the internet.
I'll pass.
soulpatch
New member
It doesnt really matter which unit price you select as the disks still show to come in around $45 for the yearly subscription.
Luddites crack me up. Seriously, this could be said about every single technical advance in history, from the toilet to the internal combustion engine to the internet.
The internet has sites I don't care about, some of it is inaccurate, hence causing concerns, is more expensive than not having internet, and definitely not necessary. Heck, current testing kits have accuracy concerns! And sometimes, it really is just about convenience. A hole in the ground in an outhouse is cheaper than a toilet, but I'll take indoor plumbing any day of the week.
I'm a data guy. My bike computer can track my HR, power output, speed, altitude, and pedal RPMs and then parse it in myriad ways. Is all that necessary to ride a bike? Of course not, but it's fun for those of us who like to discover the correlations between effort and results, and find more efficient ways to make gains.
Same thing here. It's not about chasing numbers, but about getting a better understanding of how parameters are interrelated with themselves, and how various changes affect them. It would provide a much deeper understanding of our water chemistry and its effect on our livestock.
Is it necessary? Some people argue protein skimmers aren't necessary. Some argue that regular testing of water parameters isn't necessary. But for those of us who want a deeper understanding of what is going on in our tanks, this would be a godsend.
The price of the disks has to come down, or their duration has move beyond one month. Those are real concerns, but I really do love the whole "bah hambug technology!" thing that so many have. No one is forcing you to buy it or connect anything to the internet or surrender your horse and buggy. The Amish lead rich, rewarding lives despite their rejection of modernity. Your fish and coral will do fine without this gadget.
But if people want more information, that is also not a bad thing.
acesq
Premium Member
I dunno. I've got a technology-enabled tank more than most but I'm skeptical as heck over this piece of kit. Seemed 'too good to be true' when first announced - though the monitoring costs have gone up by a factor of three since then. More shoes to drop perchance? I'd be the first to celebrate the availability of affordable, continuous alkalinity monitoring; but lets see it before anointing ... Maybe that makes me a Neo-Luddite?
BTW, fixed your typo for you!
I really like this device (in hopes it is really accurate especially Alk and hopefully in the near future nitrate/phosphate) however I'm starting to think the reagent disk is far too expensive...
I pledged ks but now I'm starting to think 45$/month is about 2-4 times too expensive especially since most of the parameters are useless, nice to see but not essential by any means. 540USD a year for testing is really steep
I'm hoping they will revise the disk prices and perhaps offer some more accuracy information on useful parameters, who cares about Ph anyways, so why spend so much time on testing that??
I'd like to see testing for
Alk
Ca
Mag
K
Salinity/TDS
Don't care much about
Ammonia
Temperature
pH
Oxygen
Carbon Dioxide
Wound like to see added:
Nitrate
Phosphate
I pledged ks but now I'm starting to think 45$/month is about 2-4 times too expensive especially since most of the parameters are useless, nice to see but not essential by any means. 540USD a year for testing is really steep
I'm hoping they will revise the disk prices and perhaps offer some more accuracy information on useful parameters, who cares about Ph anyways, so why spend so much time on testing that??
I'd like to see testing for
Alk
Ca
Mag
K
Salinity/TDS
Don't care much about
Ammonia
Temperature
pH
Oxygen
Carbon Dioxide
Wound like to see added:
Nitrate
Phosphate
ericarenee
New member
This looks too good to be true in my Opinion.. I say this Because of how long they have been testing this and then they have this..
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BREADTH OF PARAMETERS – We have specified a list of ten water parameters for the initial MindSteam monitor that we are very confident will be measured at least as accurately as common aquarium test methods. However, there is risk that during our additional internal and beta testing procedures that we identify an issue that cannot be solved before product launch.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This Says they have not got it working Correctly .. It could be YET .... But... well..... Hummmmmmmm . So do they still just have the idea and have not done internal testing.. or are they kinda saying they know they have a issue....
-------------------------------------------------
BREADTH OF PARAMETERS – We have specified a list of ten water parameters for the initial MindSteam monitor that we are very confident will be measured at least as accurately as common aquarium test methods. However, there is risk that during our additional internal and beta testing procedures that we identify an issue that cannot be solved before product launch.
-----------------------------------------------------------
This Says they have not got it working Correctly .. It could be YET .... But... well..... Hummmmmmmm . So do they still just have the idea and have not done internal testing.. or are they kinda saying they know they have a issue....
Nah, it makes you skeptical, which is entirely justified in something like this. There's a big difference in dismissing that newfangled thing because technology! And saying, "hmmm, they're promising the moon, let's see if they deliver, and at a price point that makes economic sense."
Nah, what it means is that they think they got it, but as they continue to test something unexpected may pop up. As someone who builds stuff for a living, you can't imagine the number of things that can go wrong when you least expect it. This is just a heads-up to people that this is all bleeding-edge stuff, and that they can't guarantee 100% perfection. That way, people can gauge the risk for themselves before they commit cash for the Kickstarter campaign.
The fact that they've been working on this for three years isn't a demerit, it actually suggests that yes, this is complicated stuff and they weren't about to rush it into service.
All that aside, if they could get alk AND phosphates ... I might even pay $50/month for THAT. (Probably not, but I'd be crazy tempted...)
DopeCantWin
Active member
If I had a 500 plus gallon sps system full of rare corals it would probably justify the price, otherwise it's a no.
805reef
New member
rb has a new post about answering the top 10 questions about mindstream. The questions were ok but I don't think "How does mindstream work" is a top question, especially since they just answered it using language from the kickstarter...
I wish they would have talked more about alkalinity/calcium testing and asked what happened to the other 4 parameters that were mentioned would be tested (including nitrate)
I wish they would have talked more about alkalinity/calcium testing and asked what happened to the other 4 parameters that were mentioned would be tested (including nitrate)
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