Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[maglofster]

So, like many others I'm very intrested in these leds. I'm wondering if I'm not looking at the same leds or not? I followed the links posted and all of the ones I looked at say they are good for 30,000 hours. Aren't the cree leds good for 50,000 hours?

Also, I'm all for more power but.....without dimming these things down. Why are you all after such high par readings? How fast does those par reading decrease as you move away from the center "hot spot" of the led?

Im setting up a simple 40b and I don't need all that par. At first I was thinking of doing two 50 watt, 16 or 20k, with several 3 watt blues or a few 10 watt blues. I'm now wondering if my Lps softie tank build would be happy with the 20 watt emitters? Although i will have a clam or two.

That's a lot of questions / statements I'll try to answer some.

The LED's start putting out less light after about 30k hours. They will still work though. It's the same with all high power LED's. I think the Cree LED's will last longer. Although I don't have any grasp on how fast they will deteriorate after the 30k / 50k lifetime has been reached.

We are not really after the very high par readings. We are merely showing the potential and what a certain lens will do. Lasse is going to use some lights in a 4 meter deep tank though so for him extreme par would be nice.

How far from the center the intensity starts to decrease I don't know, Lasse do you have any good readings?

I think for your tank you can do the 50's but without lenses.

 

[maglofster]

Alright... Last piece of the puzzle....optics. I am going to hang a 10 inch wide fixture 24 inches from the aquarium that is 36 inches wide. I am getting multiple 10 watt and 50 watt LED. What would be more appropriate if I want max coverage.

What I'm considering, no optics on 10 watt leds and 90 deg on 50 watt leds. What's do u guys think?

Sound good I think. Just test with and without lens and see which looks the best!

 

[Lassef]

So, like many others I'm very intrested in these leds. I'm wondering if I'm not looking at the same leds or not? I followed the links posted and all of the ones I looked at say they are good for 30,000 hours. Aren't the cree leds good for 50,000 hours?

Also, I'm all for more power but.....without dimming these things down. Why are you all after such high par readings? How fast does those par reading decrease as you move away from the center "hot spot" of the led?

Im setting up a simple 40b and I don't need all that par. At first I was thinking of doing two 50 watt, 16 or 20k, with several 3 watt blues or a few 10 watt blues. I'm now wondering if my Lps softie tank build would be happy with the 20 watt emitters? Although i will have a clam or two.

I would not say one is better than the other - it all depends on applications. CREE 3 watts might not be so good if you have a deep tank and where these multi-led press the light more toward the bottom. Cree XLM can probably manage this if driving on 2 - 3 A but it is also a question of price.

For me, the lifetime is not the most important - My work includes light sources and I have yet to experience a light source that meets the manufacturer's promises If my LED works in 20 000 hour, this means 5 years. At that time, developments in the LED has gone so far that there are better and more efficient LEDs on the market so it has probably been the time to change before 5 years

Otherwise, I agree with you - I prefer several small LED (10 watts) because it increases your possibilities to control the ramp. Being able to dim LED is very beneficial, especially when to introduce new corals.

The reason that I built my 100 watt is that I'm looking for a solution for deeper tanks where you want a lightdown to the bottom and more efficient light sources than the MH. And also for tanks where you want to have good coral growth at depths of 1 m (39 inches)

It is important to emphasize that the ideal solution does not exist - there are several good solutions in terms of LED lighting for saltwater aquariums.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lassef]

Alright... Last piece of the puzzle....optics. I am going to hang a 10 inch wide fixture 24 inches from the aquarium that is 36 inches wide. I am getting multiple 10 watt and 50 watt LED. What would be more appropriate if I want max coverage.

What I'm considering, no optics on 10 watt leds and 90 deg on 50 watt leds. What's do u guys think?

The use of lenses also have a different dimension than precisely focus the light. The lenses that are currently available for multi-chip is made ​​of glass. This means that there is some filtering of the wavelengths lying down against UV-A. Since I belong to those who believe that these wavelengths (from about 420 nm to 455 nm) is very important for coral photosynthesis, I would like to have some RB without lenses. At the same time it must not be too much of these wavelengths, so a combination is probably good, but how to do it - I do not know.

By the way - my canopy is now build

​

Sincerely Lasse

 

[007Bond]

Lasse,
I like your fixture. It looks like it could be used as a modern type pendent fixture. I have a question, I was going to do a build with 3W Crees. In the fixture I was going to use aprox. 256 LEDs. which comes to 768W of light. Now I'm looking at the 100W multichip LEDs. In their specks they say that you can run them up to 7A which would put out 252W. So instead of buying 7 100W chips to equal the 3W Crees, if I run the 100W chips at 5A in which they would put out 180W, then I would only need 4 x 100W LEDs to get 720W total. Now the question is, by running the LEDs above the 100W rating, how much life of chip will be taken away? I am also of the same mind set, that if you get 5 years out of them, I think it would be time for an up-grade. Thanks---RICK

 

[blesk]

Any one have any advice on 48x24x18 tank i was think 3x50W hybrid chip , 12x3 uv bridluxe, 6xrb 3wled + 6xcw 3 w led , oll use 60-48P meanwell drivers for now . I can use 3 heatsinks 5x9 each cona have 2 fans , 1 50W , 4 UV 3w, 2 RB 3w and 2 CW 3w vhot you think . Cont some one help me before i place order please.

 

[Lassef]

Lasse,
I like your fixture. It looks like it could be used as a modern type pendent fixture. I have a question, I was going to do a build with 3W Crees. In the fixture I was going to use aprox. 256 LEDs. which comes to 768W of light. Now I'm looking at the 100W multichip LEDs. In their specks they say that you can run them up to 7A which would put out 252W. So instead of buying 7 100W chips to equal the 3W Crees, if I run the 100W chips at 5A in which they would put out 180W, then I would only need 4 x 100W LEDs to get 720W total. Now the question is, by running the LEDs above the 100W rating, how much life of chip will be taken away? I am also of the same mind set, that if you get 5 years out of them, I think it would be time for an up-grade. Thanks---RICK

I do not really know but I think its a matter of temperature. I run my chip now at 3 A and I´m planning to test with around 5 A as you suggest. I do not know when because I have no proper driver just at the moment. For 3 A my cooler is way out of leaugue - its to good So I´m going to test - This type of multi-chip is a relatively virgin region - and I doubt that anyone really knows how it will work. I´m looking for a dimmable driver that can give 4 - 5 A. There is one drawback with this type of large multi chips - you can´t controll your light i that way you can do if you have a lot of small ones. For the moment - I prefer 10 watts to my home tank but I know that Maglofster prefer large ones

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lassef]

Sorry Blesk - I missed your question - I have to do some calculation because here in Europe all of our references is in metric form - I´ll be back....

Sincerely Lasse

 

[blesk]

Thanks Lasse is 121.9 cm x 61 cm x 45,7 cm is the tank dimension .

 

[pdfrogman]

Did you build your fixture already? If so which drivers did you use / or have planned? Thanks!

I used the driver recommended by the seller I bought the chip from


http://www.ebay.com/itm/220833169655?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I went bear bones to test the waters I had some 4X4 heat sinks and 80MM fans so I have a temporary fixture set up. I took the MH socket and bulb out of one of my lunenarcs and mounted chip and heat sink in the lunemarc
I have since ordered 3 more set ups one hybrid chip and 2 10000K along with the 90degree optics.

I expect I will be dropping my energy consumption from 1125 watts of lighting to 200 watts

 

[Lassef]

Any one have any advice on 48x24x18 tank i was think 3x50W hybrid chip , 12x3 uv bridluxe, 6xrb 3wled + 6xcw 3 w led , oll use 60-48P meanwell drivers for now . I can use 3 heatsinks 5x9 each cona have 2 fans , 1 50W , 4 UV 3w, 2 RB 3w and 2 CW 3w vhot you think . Cont some one help me before i place order please.

1 The meanwell driver you suggest is in the lower range according to the 50 watts multichip. You will probably have a consumtion arround 43 Watt with 1,3 A, maybee a little bit higer - but it works. I have calculate with this chip multichip

The smaller ones I do not know their max current.

You have a rather swallow tank (18) so the light will penetrate rather well I suppose, probably you should use lenses to the multichip.

You will have arround 65 watts of heat to transport out from each heatsink - it will probably work well - but you have to test.

If it enough of light - it depends but I´ll think so You will have around 200 watts in a 18 deep tank and 48 in lenght. I have around 350 watt in a tank that is 48 x 24 X 25.5 and don't run them in full strenght, and I use 10 watts and without lenses.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[blesk]

1 The meanwell driver you suggest is in the lower range according to the 50 watts multichip. You will probably have a consumtion arround 43 Watt with 1,3 A, maybee a little bit higer - but it works. I have calculate with this chip multichip

The smaller ones I do not know their max current.

You have a rather swallow tank (18) so the light will penetrate rather well I suppose, probably you should use lenses to the multichip.

You will have arround 65 watts of heat to transport out from each heatsink - it will probably work well - but you have to test.

If it enough of light - it depends but I´ll think so You will have around 200 watts in a 18 deep tank and 48 in lenght. I have around 350 watt in a tank that is 48 x 24 X 25.5 and don't run them in full strenght, and I use 10 watts and without lenses.

Sincerely Lasse

Thank you for the respond i was think tu use 90 degre lens fore the multi chip and 60 degre for the 3 w led i cona try tu draw somthing hove i think tu setup , why i wona use the 60-48p drivers i vona be able tu dimme them vith the drivers and tru me controler this is the lens i loking in to http://www.ebay.com/itm/22071487843...AX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2473wt_905

 

[007Bond]

I do not really know but I think its a matter of temperature. I run my chip now at 3 A and I´m planning to test with around 5 A as you suggest. I do not know when because I have no proper driver just at the moment. For 3 A my cooler is way out of leaugue - its to good So I´m going to test - This type of multi-chip is a relatively virgin region - and I doubt that anyone really knows how it will work. I´m looking for a dimmable driver that can give 4 - 5 A. There is one drawback with this type of large multi chips - you can´t controll your light i that way you can do if you have a lot of small ones. For the moment - I prefer 10 watts to my home tank but I know that Maglofster prefer large ones

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse,
Thanks for the input. I'm looking at a MeanWell HLG-320-36B driver. The B indicates that the driver will dim. It puts out 36V and 8.90A, so if I would run 2x100W LEDs they would run at 4.45A or 160W. If I run 3x100W LEDs they would run at 2.9A or 106W. I am still up in the air what combo I will use. I am going to use some 50W RB's and some 20W UV's also the 100's will be the Hybrid type. I'm trying to figure the most cost effective set up with the number of drivers in relation to the number of LEDs. In your other post regarding sizing heat sink cooling wattage vs the LED output wattage. I guess you need to know in advance how hard you intend to drive the LEDs so you can size your Heat Sink correctly.(starting to feel like an engineer:spin2 I too like the idea of having a set up with more drivers so you can dial in your color and intensity of your lighting. I am planning on using this controller that another RC member is using. Let me know what you think. Sorry for the long post. Thanks---Rick
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2096705&page=5 POST#103

 

[kttran_2005]

Questions

Questions

Thanks Lassef and maglofster,

I am in a process building the 67 gal rimless tank (48"x18"x16") from glasscages.com. I plan to build a light with the following items. Please let me know if you have any other recommendation.

1) buy 5 of 10wat LEDs - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270927199097
2) using this driver - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270926282808

Should I use mean well or other drivers instead?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[Lassef]

It seems like that controller only runs with drivers that is dimable through a 1-10 V signal (not PWM). This type of dimable drivers has one drawback - it does not shoutdown completly - the relay ports is needed or separate timers for the drivers power shoutdown.


I'm not too fond of parallel connected LEDs, but after a discussion with a friend, I am a bit easier in terms of my opposition to the parallel connection. The problem with the parallel connection is that if any line breaks so the current will spread out over those who remain and could even burn them. If you work with individual LED with good effect (Cree XLM as an example) then a easily can disaster occur. Multi Chipp has already parallel connections in itself and if a single chain is broken so it is actually not such a violent current increase. It is also quite unlikely that an entire multi-chip break - but if this happens - well then you have problems.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[007Bond]

Lassef,
Am I thinking right? When I run multi-chip leds in series from a single driver that puts out 36V, the voltage to all the leds will be 36v right. For the current to each led you take the total current output of the driver and divide that by the number of chips to get the total current the driver will provide to each chip. Example: on the meanwell driver I am going to use it puts out 36V and has a capable output of 8.90A. So if I intend to use 3 100W leds, you divide 3 into the 8.9A to get 2.9A each or 2.9x36V = 106.7W of power @ led. Am I figuring this right for a series circuit? Thanks---Rick

 

[2_zoa]

That's a lot of questions / statements I'll try to answer some.

The LED's start putting out less light after about 30k hours. They will still work though. It's the same with all high power LED's. I think the Cree LED's will last longer. Although I don't have any grasp on how fast they will deteriorate after the 30k / 50k lifetime has been reached.

We are not really after the very high par readings. We are merely showing the potential and what a certain lens will do. Lasse is going to use some lights in a 4 meter deep tank though so for him extreme par would be nice.

How far from the center the intensity starts to decrease I don't know, Lasse do you have any good readings?

I think for your tank you can do the 50's but without lenses.

Thank you for the reply.

As I mentioned, I was first hoping to use the 50 watt emitters. I also like the not having to use the optics. It allows me to keep my light fixture much more streamlined. I just need to decide on which heat sink I want to use, your recommendation or the one from new egg with the heat pipes on it. I really like the industrial look, like the light Lassef just finished up.

I would not say one is better than the other - it all depends on applications. CREE 3 watts might not be so good if you have a deep tank and where these multi-led press the light more toward the bottom. Cree XLM can probably manage this if driving on 2 - 3 A but it is also a question of price.

For me, the lifetime is not the most important - My work includes light sources and I have yet to experience a light source that meets the manufacturer's promises If my LED works in 20 000 hour, this means 5 years. At that time, developments in the LED has gone so far that there are better and more efficient LEDs on the market so it has probably been the time to change before 5 years

Otherwise, I agree with you - I prefer several small LED (10 watts) because it increases your possibilities to control the ramp. Being able to dim LED is very beneficial, especially when to introduce new corals.

The reason that I built my 100 watt is that I'm looking for a solution for deeper tanks where you want a lightdown to the bottom and more efficient light sources than the MH. And also for tanks where you want to have good coral growth at depths of 1 m (39 inches)

It is important to emphasize that the ideal solution does not exist - there are several good solutions in terms of LED lighting for saltwater aquariums.

Sincerely Lasse

Thank you for your response.

First. I really like your light. I think it turned out really sweet.

I see where your coming from. The hours in the Led's is plenty. I got caught up in comparing the two Led's and not looking at the bigger picture....And your right. There just isn't a perfect solution. There is always a give and take.

It looks like I just need to settle on a driver. I'm stuck on it being able to dim my lights. So I can tweak the color and turn down the intensity for new arrivals into my tank, and not need a multitude of drivers.


Skål/Cheers to both of you.:beer:
This is a great thread with lots of valuable info. Thank you for sharing and all your help.

 

[Lassef]

@ 007Bond

Lassef,
Am I thinking right? When I run multi-chip leds in series from a single driver that puts out 36V, the voltage to all the leds will be 36v right. For the current to each led you take the total current output of the driver and divide that by the number of chips to get the total current the driver will provide to each chip. Example: on the meanwell driver I am going to use it puts out 36V and has a capable output of 8.90A. So if I intend to use 3 100W leds, you divide 3 into the 8.9A to get 2.9A each or 2.9x36V = 106.7W of power @ led. Am I figuring this right for a series circuit? Thanks---Rick

Perfect - with one small exception. You have described a completely correct parallel circuit

If you shall make a series connection, you take plus from the driver to plus on the the first chip -> Minus on the first chip to the plus on the second chip -> Minus on the second chip to plus on the third and so on. When the last chip is connected take minus from it and connect to minius on driver. The current of the chips will then be the one the driver leaves - in your case about 8 A.

A LED does not lead current until a certain voltage is achieved, the so-called Forward Voltage (FV). To obtain the voltage that you need from your drive, you must add the FV for each chip. If each chip has 30 V VF you need a driver provide 60 V if connecting two chips in series. So you can not use this driver in a series connection of these chips.

A parallel connection is done by connecting each chips plus connection to plus on the driver and each chip minus to minus on the driver. Are the three chip in this way, then all three get the voltage the driver provides. Current flowing in each chip count then out by taking driverns current in A, and dividing by 3.

It is important that this is done in the right way.

I am good to explain this in my native language but English is not my native language. Check with a knowledgeable English-speaking person, so everything is correct and that you understand.

To get your design to work with the drive you selected, and the multi-chip you have selected, it must be a parallel connection

Plus on each chip to the plus on the the driver, minus on the each chip to minus on the the driver

Sincerely Lasse

 

[007Bond]

Lasse,
Thanks much. I understand, your English is fine and thanks for all your help and time on this thread.---Rick

 

[maglofster]

With over 10k views this thread is warming up nicely enough!

Big thanks to Lasse for helping with answers and general good flow in the thread. Also big thanks to all who is contributing.

My PM-box is getting flooded. So please place your questions in the thread to be sure to get an answer.