Minimalistic multichip DIY LED build

[iced98lx]

Also the total wattage of these might be great for someone running a tank 30" or taller but on say a 120 Gallon tank I do not like sharp shadows so I would want to use at least 8 of them spread across the tank. That would give me up to 1,000 Watts of LED lighting So I'd only be running these in the 20% to 35% range.

Are you assuming a lens in in play here? I've lit 3 up over a six foot tank (not those chips, but other 100w multichips) and was happy with both depth penetration and shadow spread. I can't provide a photo ATM as I tore down the test setup and am prototyping over my biocue while I renovate the big tank, but it seemed to fit the need for me, curious what you saw that you don't like? (More worried I"ll not like it either!)

 

[TropTrea]

Are you assuming a lens in in play here? I've lit 3 up over a six foot tank (not those chips, but other 100w multichips) and was happy with both depth penetration and shadow spread. I can't provide a photo ATM as I tore down the test setup and am prototyping over my biocue while I renovate the big tank, but it seemed to fit the need for me, curious what you saw that you don't like? (More worried I"ll not like it either!)

Yes a lot of this is personal taste. I personaly like to get more of an even light distribution rather than sharp shadows. True you will have some shaded areas to the eye, unless you put the lights in front of your tank, but I like to minimalize the shadows as much as possible.

If you look at some of the pictures you will see a very bright top of a coral while the underside is almost black as well as everything under it. This is something I do not like appearance wise. Through experementing and doing some trig calculations I have found that more point light sources hitting an area the less this shadow area is sharply defined.

Now do not get me wrong the multichip is a good idea provided it is applied correctly. As an example Johnny might want to put a single 150 watt on his 24" X 24" X 30" tall tank. But I think the lighting effect would be much better with say 4 37.5 watt multi chips. If they are dimmable then even 4-50 watt multi chips.

As far as lenses go there are places for them and there are places where they are over used. If the light angle on lenses is to small especialy on taller tanks where you have only one or two light sources hitting a specific spot then it will increase the shadows. But if they are wide enough that you still have multi point light sources hitting the same spot then they are advantages in all respects. Lenes realy show there value when you getting into taller tanks or putting the lights high above the surface. To me if you have 24" or more between the light source and the substrate then lenses should be strongly considered.

As an example I did a moonlight set up with 8-3 Watt Royal Blues running 90 degree lenses. I positioned the strip at the front of the tank on a 45 degree angle pointing to the botom rear. I ended up running them at 120 ma to give the proper moolight illumination or less than 1/2 watt each. I could see obvious hot spots where the center of each focused. And throughout the tank I got a fantastic shimmer effect. But I hated those hot spots. With the 90 degree lenses and the LEDs I was getting at least 4 LEDs hitting any given spot. I switched to 120 degree lenses and it helped the situation considerably but I still saw more shadowing than I was comfortable with. Eventualy I went with no lenses. The drawback of no lenses was that I had to up my power to 200 ma to get the same intensity and I did have light splilling on the floor in front of the tank. But the shimmer effect was still there which is what I was aiming for in the moon light effect.

Keep in mind that diferent people have different tastes when it comes to lighting. Some like extrem constrast emphisizing the color of a coral against a darker background. Others like a more evenly distributed light, and there are probably 100 levels between the two. It is like some people like a ratio of 1 to 1 neutral whites to Blues, while other like a 1 to 4 ratio. Think of the many diferent steps between there.

Yes you can get good lighting with 100 watt multichips on a 6 foot long tank. But how many are you using and how tall is the tank? Also if each color is seperatly dimmable how many watts of that light are you actualy using in the end? I here often people running 4 channels with only one channel at 100% and some channels even under 50%.

 

[TropTrea]

I have had a few multichips with burnt out rows when run at 500mA/row. Anyone else have any rows burn out? I'm using a large active CPU cooler with heat pipes, and temps seem fine.

The biggest reason for burn out are.
1. Power spikes
2. Heat.

Different multichps have different rating for current and can withstand different sizes of spikes. But cooling when you talking about high wattage LED's is probably the biggest issue. You can have the greatest possible cooling hoiwever it the heat is not effeciently transfered from the chip to the cooling area your getting the chip hot while the cooler is not even getting warm.

My suspicion would first be the thero contact between the chip and the cooling system provided you not exceeding the max current for your LED's.

 

[asid61]

I'm not enthused with the combinations for the channels on that chip.
Channel 1 = max 25 Watts 4,500 K
Channel 2 = Max 25 Watts Royal Blue
Channel 3 = Max 25 Watts of 430 nm Atinic
Channel 4 = Max 12.5 Watts Deep Red and 12.5 Watts of Cyan
Channel 5 = Max 12.5 Watts True Blue and 12.5 Watts of 410nm Atinic

I particularly do not like the Deep Red and Cyan mix. You should be getting enough red from the 4,500K chip. And If I was running a near blance between the others I would want to red to be at or near 0 with the Cyan at or near max. I think it would be easire to balance out if they put that deep red on the same channel as the 410 nm Atinic. And the True Blue with the Cyan.

However looking at a artistic combination the red and cyan do neutralize each other making the appearance look less noticable between the individual colors.

Also the total wattage of these might be great for someone running a tank 30" or taller but on say a 120 Gallon tank I do not like sharp shadows so I would want to use at least 8 of them spread across the tank. That would give me up to 1,000 Watts of LED lighting So I'd only be running these in the 20% to 35% range.

Then look at the Cost 8 Chips = $785 Cooling probably as much, and drivers another $250. Before your done you spent at least $2,000.00. But you have enough lighting power to handle a 240 gallon tank that is nearly 48" tall.

I know about the whole reds thing, but it is hard to have a lot of red in a reef tank unless it is totally overloaded, and only then is it damaging. Many of the colors help with color rendering (cyans, reds, and cool blues).
The cost is a lot, but it's really not much more than a multichip off ebay with royal blues and cold whites, which is way worse than the Lumia. The Lumia is more efficient and can safely be run at the 700ma max from what I've read. That combined with the violets makes it a much better choice even though it costs twice as much.

 

[TropTrea]

I know about the whole reds thing, but it is hard to have a lot of red in a reef tank unless it is totally overloaded, and only then is it damaging. Many of the colors help with color rendering (cyans, reds, and cool blues).
The cost is a lot, but it's really not much more than a multichip off ebay with royal blues and cold whites, which is way worse than the Lumia. The Lumia is more efficient and can safely be run at the 700ma max from what I've read. That combined with the violets makes it a much better choice even though it costs twice as much.

With Cool or Cold White chips that basicly lack nearly anything in the red spectrum I will agree with you RED's are needed. But when you have a Neutral white Chip if it is what it is claimed to be you have a good balance of reds, greens and blue, to start with for visual appearance.

Yes the Violets are a nice feature. But do you realy need that much violet? I personly have gotten away from the so called 410 nm Violets and only use a limited amount of 430 nm violets. Now if they put the 410's and the 430's on the same channel I think it would be much better. To me the ideal would be something like

Channel 1 Neutral Whites @ 60% power
Channel 2 Royal Blues @ 100 Power
Channel 2 True Blues and 430 nm running at 90% power
Channel 4 410 nm and Cyan running at 50% power
Channel 5 Deep reds turned off.

But now you have a 125 Watt Chip and your only using it at only 60 Watts.

But if they used the Cool Whites then I crank the whites up to 90% and the deep reds up to 30%. But again I would prefer 620 nm Red compared to the deep red. Any coral in nature that is 5meters or deeper never sees any deep red light that is measurable.

 

[asid61]

With Cool or Cold White chips that basicly lack nearly anything in the red spectrum I will agree with you RED's are needed. But when you have a Neutral white Chip if it is what it is claimed to be you have a good balance of reds, greens and blue, to start with for visual appearance.

Yes the Violets are a nice feature. But do you realy need that much violet? I personly have gotten away from the so called 410 nm Violets and only use a limited amount of 430 nm violets. Now if they put the 410's and the 430's on the same channel I think it would be much better. To me the ideal would be something like

Channel 1 Neutral Whites @ 60% power
Channel 2 Royal Blues @ 100 Power
Channel 2 True Blues and 430 nm running at 90% power
Channel 4 410 nm and Cyan running at 50% power
Channel 5 Deep reds turned off.

But now you have a 125 Watt Chip and your only using it at only 60 Watts.

But if they used the Cool Whites then I crank the whites up to 90% and the deep reds up to 30%. But again I would prefer 620 nm Red compared to the deep red. Any coral in nature that is 5meters or deeper never sees any deep red light that is measurable.

Yeah, that's all true. But on the violets point, it's hard to have too many IMO. When I first saw it, I asked about the number of violets and was told that a large number was good. I did some research, and having a full line of 430nm violets is apparently very beneficial.
On the deep red point, it can't be bad except in large quantities and not mixed with other colors (such as royal blue). However, I would not run them above 30% unless I had macroalgaes, in which case I would up it to 60%.

 

[TropTrea]

Yeah, that's all true. But on the violets point, it's hard to have too many IMO. When I first saw it, I asked about the number of violets and was told that a large number was good. I did some research, and having a full line of 430nm violets is apparently very beneficial.
On the deep red point, it can't be bad except in large quantities and not mixed with other colors (such as royal blue). However, I would not run them above 30% unless I had macroalgaes, in which case I would up it to 60%.

Yes having 430 nm is benificial. But as far as having as much light at 430 nm as you have at 455 nm is questionable. The peak range should be between 455 and 470 with both the shorter and longer wave lenghts from that range being very secondary. In reality 500 nm as equaly as important as 410 nm however the 500nm range is where all LED's seem to lack. This is why I'm now suplementing my LEDs with T-5's.

 

[asid61]

Yes having 430 nm is benificial. But as far as having as much light at 430 nm as you have at 455 nm is questionable. The peak range should be between 455 and 470 with both the shorter and longer wave lenghts from that range being very secondary. In reality 500 nm as equaly as important as 410 nm however the 500nm range is where all LED's seem to lack. This is why I'm now suplementing my LEDs with T-5's.

If 500nm is so important, why not just add cyan leds? I have never heard of 500nm being very important before; I read it was 470nm and 430nm.
Hold on a sec. I need to pull up some graphs.

EDIT: Here, this shows the absorption spectra. Chlorophyll A is prevalent in corals in a 10-1 ratio, but is 2-3 in clams. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y1.../Photosyntheticpigmentsabsorptionmaxima-1.png

And some graphs:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/jedimasterben/LED Arrays/chlorophyllafinal.png
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/jedimasterben/LED Arrays/chlorophyllc2.png

As can be seen, the red peak for chlorophyll A (662nm) in the graph is almost as high as the 428nm peak. So red leds are pretty good for corals.

I sources these from a user on another reef site. Name: Jedimasterben

 

[mr.wilson]

The biggest reason for burn out are.
1. Power spikes
2. Heat.

Different multichps have different rating for current and can withstand different sizes of spikes. But cooling when you talking about high wattage LED's is probably the biggest issue. You can have the greatest possible cooling hoiwever it the heat is not effeciently transfered from the chip to the cooling area your getting the chip hot while the cooler is not even getting warm.

My suspicion would first be the thero contact between the chip and the cooling system provided you not exceeding the max current for your LED's.

I'm leaning toward blaming my generic silver heat transfer grease as well. Many of the heat sinks I've seen in this thread are pretty modest, so I don't think it's the cooler itself. The Inventronics drivers may not be as good at managing current as the Mean Well LDD-H. I will be more thorough installing the replacement chips.

 

[mr.wilson]

I'm not enthused with the combinations for the channels on that chip.
Channel 1 = max 25 Watts 4,500 K
Channel 2 = Max 25 Watts Royal Blue
Channel 3 = Max 25 Watts of 430 nm Atinic
Channel 4 = Max 12.5 Watts Deep Red and 12.5 Watts of Cyan
Channel 5 = Max 12.5 Watts True Blue and 12.5 Watts of 410nm Atinic

I particularly do not like the Deep Red and Cyan mix. You should be getting enough red from the 4,500K chip. And If I was running a near blance between the others I would want to red to be at or near 0 with the Cyan at or near max. I think it would be easire to balance out if they put that deep red on the same channel as the 410 nm Atinic. And the True Blue with the Cyan.

However looking at a artistic combination the red and cyan do neutralize each other making the appearance look less noticable between the individual colors.

Also the total wattage of these might be great for someone running a tank 30" or taller but on say a 120 Gallon tank I do not like sharp shadows so I would want to use at least 8 of them spread across the tank. That would give me up to 1,000 Watts of LED lighting So I'd only be running these in the 20% to 35% range.

Then look at the Cost 8 Chips = $785 Cooling probably as much, and drivers another $250. Before your done you spent at least $2,000.00. But you have enough lighting power to handle a 240 gallon tank that is nearly 48" tall.

What do you think of mixing 3.4v cyan chips with 2.4v red chips in the same row?

I'm surprised they didn't go with a 100 LED multichip, especially at $100. The extra 5 rows would offer more colours and subsequent control. Running twice as many chips at the same current is cooler and more efficient.

 

[asid61]

What do you think of mixing 3.4v cyan chips with 2.4v red chips in the same row?

I'm surprised they didn't go with a 100 LED multichip, especially at $100. The extra 5 rows would offer more colours and subsequent control. Running twice as many chips at the same current is cooler and more efficient.

Well, the custom build is expensive as it is. They saved on LEDs and went with a better plate to heatsink it with, which is a good trade-off IMO.
You can mix any number of different voltages in the same row, as long as the driver can support the total voltage.

 

[mr.wilson]

Well, the custom build is expensive as it is. They saved on LEDs and went with a better plate to heatsink it with, which is a good trade-off IMO.
You can mix any number of different voltages in the same row, as long as the driver can support the total voltage.

They save on LEDs, the end user doesn't. It's the same frame used for a 100 LED multichip. The extra spacing makes minimal difference, especially at twice the current.

 

[danielcassar]

My reef tank!

My reef tank!

Thanks for this thread, i managed to do my DIY led system!
consits of 12 LED's of 10W each, 6 of which are 455nm and 6 are 15000K type of leds. mounted on a piece of aluminium channel with 3 cpu fans on it. all leds are powered by 3 meanwell driver ELN 60-48D. Thanks for all who gave me hints especially Lasse. Thanks !!

 

[TropTrea]

What do you think of mixing 3.4v cyan chips with 2.4v red chips in the same row?.

As long as they are rated for the same current it is not an electrical issue. However I personaly would want to be able dim those two colors independently of the other. I would also recommend a 620 nm Red over one of a longer wavelenght.

I'm surprised they didn't go with a 100 LED multichip, especially at $100. The extra 5 rows would offer more colours and subsequent control. Running twice as many chips at the same current is cooler and more efficient.

I see this is several lights. First off 1 Watt Emitters are starting to get more rare every day. The trend now is moving to higher wattage emitters like even 10 Watts each. The cost of a difference between a 1 Watt emitter and a 10 Watt emitter is roughly double. So if you compare 100-1 Watt emitters at 30 cents each you get $30 but if you have 10- 10 Watt Emiters at 60 cents each you have $6.00. Now if you with 3 Watt emiters they are just a little more expensive than 1 Watt emiters so 36 of them at 40 cents each costs them $14.40. the only thing holding them back from going with the 10 watt emitters is that all colors are not yet available in the 10 Watt designs.

 

[nettraptor]

I finally made my controller after endless nights of programming :debi: i baptized it also to "poseidon"
i am working with it the last 4-5 months , basically is an arduino with ethernet controller nothing more. i am using technologies like ajax,jquery,json,java etc.. i can dim the lights like i want in schedule or manual.

i using 3 chips
1x Dream chip 50
2x multichips of 50w each
i am using meanwell LDD600 and 1000 hooked up into the arduino ports!

 

[asid61]

As long as they are rated for the same current it is not an electrical issue. However I personaly would want to be able dim those two colors independently of the other. I would also recommend a 620 nm Red over one of a longer wavelenght.

But it's 660nm that's the absorption spectra for chlorophyll C.

Also, (not sure how to multiquote) that seems like a nice controller! May I ask what code you used for the ethernet shield?

 

[nettraptor]

But it's 660nm that's the absorption spectra for chlorophyll C.

Also, (not sure how to multiquote) that seems like a nice controller! May I ask what code you used for the ethernet shield?

what do you mean? C++ basically arduino code

 

[asid61]

what do you mean? C++ basically arduino code

I mean, is there a library to use the shield? Is it hard to code for?

 

[nettraptor]

I mean, is there a library to use the shield? Is it hard to code for?

I am working as developer for 18years , and i think i learned a lot with this thing, because searching for a solution in a problem making you search and learn more. I used a library yes but this is for the basic stuff like if client is connected then do this and that... the rest code i wrote is i think a little more advanced for senior programmers , but if you want it simple you can do it fine.. the web is full of info.

 

[TropTrea]

But it's 660nm that's the absorption spectra for chlorophyll C.

Chlorphyll C is not found in a many corals as most of them grow in nature at levels that have near neglable light penetration in the 660 and above wave lenghts. However many algea including Cyno Bacteria flourish from light in the 660 nm to 680 nm range as there main photoosynthetic protein is Chlorphyll C.