more tang arguments

[Beaun]

I guess it comes down to how much better is it really. Is it better enough that you can justify what you do and criticize someone else? Apparently so, but somewhere I'd like to see a little less self righteousness when people have worked hard to keep these fish sometimes for many years.

The mortality rate for fish in this hobby is appalling, the money we spend we won't even admit to ourselves, the energy we waste is no consideration and yet people can still get on their high horse as champions for the very fish they imprison themselves. I'm just amused by the whole discussion.

First, it's not about criticizing anyone else, it is about putting out good, sound advice to people looking at buying tangs.

Second, the mortality rate is so high because people are putting fish in unsuitable situations. Putting a tang in an appropriate sized tank ensures that it will live longer and another wont be purchased to replace it.

Honestly, your entire point seems like a convenient way to move away from the topic at hand. These tank sizes are not just pulled out of a hat, they are thoughtfully considered by top tier hobbyists, aquarists and professionals; people who have way more experience and knowledge then most do.

 

[Sk8r]

I think it's a good idea we talk---talk!---out some of these issues, because a lot of info floating around the hobby is on the same level as the cat-breeders who thought bearing a litter of alley cats would 'ruin' a pedigreed cat forever and make all her future offspring 'tainted' with alley-cat.
So I'm willing to be patient with this thread in the hopes that even the absolutely off-the-wall notions can get an airing, and perhaps make some new hobbyists think more deeply on their plans, their tanks, their proposed fishes.
What would I like to see happen? I'd like to see people plan the tank they actually have, have success with it, and just as we all do, limit the fish we keep to those appropriate to the tank we can afford. I keep gobies. I'd love to have some damsels, but I won't put them, or tangs, into a 54 gallon. Period.

 

[syrinx]

There's lots of info out there already. Your post is an example of why people who don't understand the subject should put their egos aside and listen to the really good advice that's out there on this subject. It's ridiculous to go back to square one with this tang argument with every new thread as if we are breaking new ground and are suddenly discovering that tangs have certain requirements.

It saddens me to see that so many people think they know it all and won't listen to experts. (not referring to myself as an expert)[/QUOT

I think you need to back off on me there mister! I fully understand the issue- and have said bigger is better- if there is the data you state- direct me to it- I want to see numbers. I have no ego to deal with here- I am always open to learning- which is why I have experience as opposed to a limited view. There is always an exception to every rule and we need to be flexible in our opinions.

 

[mthomp]

There's lots of info out there already. Your post is an example of why people who don't understand the subject should put their egos aside and listen to the really good advice that's out there on this subject. It's ridiculous to go back to square one with this tang argument with every new thread as if we are breaking new ground and are suddenly discovering that tangs have certain requirements.

It saddens me to see that so many people think they know it all and won't listen to experts. (not referring to myself as an expert)

there is not a single expert on this thread. and if there is please show your credentials as such.

 

[jkeim1974]

I found this on a local reef club. I think you guys should stop complaining about 55 and 75 gallon tanks and look for this one its a 10 gallon.

 

[Angel*Fish]

I think the end all- since there is no data involved here- only emotion - would be there needs to be a poll of longevity of tangs and their respective tank size. I am sorry if lifespan doesn`t denote health or happiness- but its all the reliable data we can get-without necropsies or psychotherapy. I love big tank sizes- used to keep neon tetras in a 180-we should do the best we can-but arbitrary "rules" do nothing but cause division. "Wheres the beef"!

In my opinion practically everything you said in this post is wrong. it ignores the info already out there.

 

[mthomp]

Second, the mortality rate is so high because people are putting fish in unsuitable situations. Putting a tang in an appropriate sized tank ensures that it will live longer and another wont be purchased to replace it.

this is false. there are many many many reasons for fish loss. the reasons you posted is probably lowest reasons why. how many fish you think die in transport for example? 1 out of 10 maybe?

 

[b0bab0ey]

I think it's a good idea we talk---talk!---out some of these issues, because a lot of info floating around the hobby is on the same level as the cat-breeders who thought bearing a litter of alley cats would 'ruin' a pedigreed cat forever and make all her future offspring 'tainted' with alley-cat.
So I'm willing to be patient with this thread in the hopes that even the absolutely off-the-wall notions can get an airing, and perhaps make some new hobbyists think more deeply on their plans, their tanks, their proposed fishes.
What would I like to see happen? I'd like to see people plan the tank they actually have, have success with it, and just as we all do, limit the fish we keep to those appropriate to the tank we can afford. I keep gobies. I'd love to have some damsels, but I won't put them, or tangs, into a 54 gallon. Period.

Just curious... why won't you put damsels in your tank? Too aggressive? I have a 58g, and I'm thinking of starting out with a few chromis once it's cycled.

 

[mthomp]

In my opinion practically everything you said in this post is wrong.

according to your sig, your tank is seriously crowded. you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Angel*Fish]

according to your sig, your tank is seriously crowded. you should be ashamed of yourself.

According to your post, you can't read. There's a 100 g tank and 2 30g's. All those particular species that I chose are very small.

 

[mthomp]

According to your post, you can't read. There's a 100 g tank and 2 30g's. All those fish are very small, look them up.

says refugiums, i assumed they were being used as such. and i know the saize of every single fish you have listed and its min tank requirments. if you have all those in your 100 gal its cramped since you also mention you have more then 1 of each.

 

[Sk8r]

Ah, chromis (we step aside to talk offtopic only slightly) and clowns are both damsels, and I do have one chromis ---my tank is a wedge shape, and one is about all I dare, because they do pick at each other. If you have a long tank, you might get away with 3. Odd numbers seem to work best. The chromises and smallest clowns are the smallest of damsels, and they're so often considered apart from the rest I forget they are, yes, damsels. The rest tend to get big---way big---and need about a 100 g tank or larger to thrive and move properly. At that size, they're a wonderful fish, and it's a crying shame people get scared off having them (and for some reason lured into having tangs for color!) when they are every color and pattern in the rainbow, cheap, (except the Garabaldi!) and incredibly hardy. They are movers, but fairly short range: they like to dive over and around rock and they thrive and are a delight in a 100g and up, but they just get cranky and desperate in a too-small tank, hence their awful rep---if you were commonly used 'to cycle a tank' you'd be in a bad mood too!)

But yes---chromis would be great in a 58. 3 would be a good number if you're a long, one, maybe 2 if yours is a wedge like my tank.


Now back to your regularly scheduled tang thread.

 

[Ohiomom]

thats not poor reefkeeping, thats being overly dramatic. I have 3 tangs in my 90 for example, none get over 9 inchs in the wild, Ill bet they dont get over 6 in my system. and they will be fine.

pot calling the kettle in that case..many of us would think you are way overstocked..

 

[Angel*Fish]

says refugiums, i assumed they were being used as such. and i know the saize of every single fish you have listed and its min tank requirments. if you have all those in your 100 gal its cramped since you also mention you have more then 1 of each.

How could you possibly know which shrimp gobies (high fin), damsels (azure) or clowns(oscellaris) I have? The red sea mimic blennies are tiny fish. Not much bigger than the yellow clown gobies. Except for the angels, it's mostly nano fish. You're awfully eager to put me down with very little info.

How crowded does this look to you?

And refugium means a lot of different things.

 

[Frogmanx82]

First, it's not about criticizing anyone else, it is about putting out good, sound advice to people looking at buying tangs.

Second, the mortality rate is so high because people are putting fish in unsuitable situations. Putting a tang in an appropriate sized tank ensures that it will live longer and another wont be purchased to replace it.

Honestly, your entire point seems like a convenient way to move away from the topic at hand. These tank sizes are not just pulled out of a hat, they are thoughtfully considered by top tier hobbyists, aquarists and professionals; people who have way more experience and knowledge then most do.

I would bet inappropriate tank mates and water quality have more to do with mortality rates than tank size. My whole point is to keep the advice as advice and not criticism because it is exactly about criticizing others. Tangs doing backflips are someones dream, maybe someone else's nightmare.

 

[Angel*Fish]

Tangs doing backflips are someones dream, maybe someone else's nightmare.

They are what they are, it's not dependent on perspective. I personally don't know enough to give an opinion.

 

[Sk8r]

Beautiful tank, Marie.

 

[Angel*Fish]

Beautiful tank, Marie.

Thank you. It was my treasure. I lost everything to Hurricane Ike except the Herald's angel and the Apagons which I gave away. It's running fallow with a powerhead and a heater and top offs. All this posting really makes me want to start it back up. The crazy thing is I still hear pistol shrimp clicking.

 

[Sk8r]

some species can survive a nuclear strike.

 

[Beaun]

this is false. there are many many many reasons for fish loss. the reasons you posted is probably lowest reasons why. how many fish you think die in transport for example? 1 out of 10 maybe?

Of course many more die in transport, I was referring to once they make it to the store and get sold. There is an entire other thread to be written discussing/dealing with transportation and collection methods, i.e. short supply chain/long supply chain, or a 5 gallon bucket filled with damsels for a few hours on the deck of a boat...