MP40 vs 6105 vs WP40

[smkooq]

MP40 vs 6105 vs WP40

Heres the problem. This thread was created for comparing and sharing info and exp about 3 different brands of powerheads. After 4 pages, you have contributed nothing in relation to which this thread was intended. No one has a clue which of the 3 powerheads, if any, that you own. Instead you chose to interject yourself by picking out 1 comment and giving a lesson in market comparison. As opposed to "just asking for an expansion of my opinion, you chose to travel a different path which came off as very smug/ A Hole-ish and semed to indicate someone must be practically be poor if they believe a $500 pump to be overpriced. You admittedly dont understand product comparison, which is a large part of what we do in the equipment forum, or you choose to pretend that you dont so that you may stick to your "marketing" guns. Again, market comparison, which you seem to forget that you interjected, has no bearing/weight in this thread or forum. You cant attack an individuals personal experiences with various pieces of equipment.........product comparison.......... with "is it your income that makes you feel this way.........it must be!" Do yourself a favor, in the future if you want an explanation from a poster, just ask as opposed to interjecting backhanded comments.........You will catch more flies with honey than Vinegar . Its time to end this diatribe as it is off basis and out of line for the purpose with which this thread is intended. It doesnt look like you have posted much so, I think you will find Reef Central to be a wonderful knowledge base for pretty much anything saltwater aquarium related. There is much to be learned from others here from livestock to chemistry to equipment and so much more. Ron & the Mods, I apologize for allowing this derail to go on for far to long and interrupt the intended path of the thread. Again, apologies.

Again. Market comparison? Do you have any idea what that entails? ..

I'm coming off smug? Yet you try to act like post counts are relevant to any information?

Do your own self a favor and if you want to state if a product is overpriced, state the reason why...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[phenom5]

Here's my $0.02 on the WP40, not that anyone asked or cares. ;p And then I'll bow out of this thread, and honestly the equipment forum altogether for a bit.

1. I've spent 1000s of dollars, and years of time & effort on my tank. Not interested in risking it to save a few bucks.

2. What's the failure rate on the light sensor? Who cares, right? I know that if I wanted to buy this pump I wouldn't use it, so who cares, right? But these are some of the first runs off the production line, and the light sensor fails at a very high rate, very quickly. So either Jebao didn't do much testing, or they did test it, and see no problem with sell a defective product. Either way, I've just not comfortable putting one in my tank.

So for me it's vortech at the moment, probably tunze in the future, but who what will be available down the road.

 

[SeedlessOne]

Im sure there are plenty of products that fit the description of what he stated. The Odyssea lighting fixtures that were catching on fire a few years ago immediately come to the front of my mind! lol

Is there any reason these jebao powerheads are constantly compared to odyssey fixtures?

These have nothing to do with fixtures that some people claimed caught on fire like 10 years ago from a separate company. and even then it was always a friend of a friends fixture caught on fire.

I say it over and over again.

Jebao has nothing to do with jebo or odyssey.

 

[rjallen]

I've waded through these last several pages not intending of adding my $0.02 but there is one aspect most seem to be missing. Value in a market place is determined by what folks are willing to pay under present circumstances. Tunze and Eco Tech make good products for a leisure pastime. No one NEEDS these items and they are great improvements over circulation 20 years ago- air stone anyone? The above companies support owners and employees. Profit is NOT evil.

Things change, products are made more reliable, more effective, at a lower price point because market forces compel companies to stay competitive. No competition no change.

This is why a product like the Jebao is good news for all of us. It might fail, succeed or evolve in to an even better product. Tunze & Eco Tech will either respond, if the WP-40 is successful, or will fail. The over all end will be active manufacturers of circulation pumps providing even better products at prices consumers will find to have "value".

I use neither Tunze or Eco Tech pumps. Hydor pumps have given me good, if limited capabilities, service. I have bought 2 WP-40s and have been impressed so far. Time will tell.

 

[smkooq]

MP40 vs 6105 vs WP40

I've waded through these last several pages not intending of adding my $0.02 but there is one aspect most seem to be missing. Value in a market place is determined by what folks are willing to pay under present circumstances. Tunze and Eco Tech make good products for a leisure pastime. No one NEEDS these items and they are great improvements over circulation 20 years ago- air stone anyone? The above companies support owners and employees. Profit is NOT evil.

Things change, products are made more reliable, more effective, at a lower price point because market forces compel companies to stay competitive. No competition no change.

This is why a product like the Jebao is good news for all of us. It might fail, succeed or evolve in to an even better product. Tunze & Eco Tech will either respond, if the WP-40 is successful, or will fail. The over all end will be active manufacturers of circulation pumps providing even better products at prices consumers will find to have "value".

I use neither Tunze or Eco Tech pumps. Hydor pumps have given me good, if limited capabilities, service. I have bought 2 WP-40s and have been impressed so far. Time will tell.

Yes. But knockoffs do not create innovations. If you were to create a PPF graph (product-possibility frontier) and use 2 companies creating 1 product each instead of 1 company making 2 products. Knockoffs hurts new/newer companies graph curves, while it does not dent a well established companies curve.

I guess to simplify: Knockoffs hurts innovative companies from forming. While it does not compete with current innovative companies, which means it won't force established companies to work harder.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[cap032]

Is there any reason these jebao powerheads are constantly compared to odyssey fixtures?

These have nothing to do with fixtures that some people claimed caught on fire like 10 years ago from a separate company. and even then it was always a friend of a friends fixture caught on fire.

I say it over and over again.

Jebao has nothing to do with jebo or odyssey.

I think the similarity of names, be it fair or unfair, between Jebao and Jebo(Odyssea) have some wondering if this is another trip down a very bad road. Even recently, a user here caused significant damage to the school he works at when an Odyssea fixture caught fire.

 

[rjallen]

Yes. But knockoffs do not create innovations. If you were to create a PPF graph (product-possibility frontier) and use 2 companies creating 1 product each instead of 1 company making 2 products. Knockoffs hurts new/newer companies graph curves, while it does not dent a well established companies curve.

I guess to simplify: Knockoffs hurts innovative companies from forming. While it does not compete with current innovative companies, which means it won't force established companies to work harder.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

1st The WP-40 is not just a "knockoff". I believe its DC pump with its controller is not like any other pump. Yes is copies control-ability but the final product is a combination of of several pump features in one package. Perhaps you could tell me what the exact model cloned.
2nd I suggest you review "the Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith. I am very much a believer in the "invisible hand". Not sure he would understand your graph proof either.
3rd If, and this is big if, these pumps prove to be durable and provide control-ability features no available under $200.00 price point, The "big two" will react with improvements or lower prices.
I remember when Japanese cars were considered "knockoffs" of the European models. Seems to me we all benefit from those Asian products. I would also say the success of those same products in the 1970s forced American car makers to improve quality and innovate many new features. Yes, some legendary brands no longer exist, they couldn't compete. That competition brings innovation and improvement.

 

[phenom5]

1st the WP40 is a complete copy, or knockoff of a Tunze.
2nd Adam Smith's invisible hand of the self-correcting free market assumes that everybody is playing by the same rules. In this case they're not...you could argue that US companies and Chinese companies aren't even playing the same game.
3rd you're comparing a huge market, not sure of the exact numbers or the numbers circa 1970's, but there are millions of cars on the road vs a pretty small niche market. Maybe Jebao forces Ecotech or Tunze to make cheaper pumps...or maybe it hurts them to the point that they stop making pumps. That would be great for the hobby.

 

[smkooq]

Is the jebao a knockoff? That's a hot question. It does imitate the tunze pump physically, and imitates ecotechs product name. But it does not completely try to pass off as one of these companies pumps completely.

But similarly. If I was to create a cellphone that looks exactly like an iPhone but made of different hardware and software, and rebranded with another name. Would it constitute as a knockoff?

If jebao can come up with more originality I'm sure it would have better acceptance in the market.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[toofrigginswt]

I guess the solution here is if all of the wp40 owners accept that they bought a knockoff and are happy with the knockoff, there really wouldn't be anything left to debate. I had two mp40 and two mp10. I spent over $1200 on the vortechs. I bought two wp40 because I was curious a month or so ago. I used this knockoff pump and actually liked it. Yes i agree its a pure knockoff. So I sold off all 4 of my vortechs and got $1000 back. I ended up using that money to upgrade my reactors to 3 vertex Rx-u reactors (which I just recently found out that its also made in china but is "German engineered" lol), $300 worth or corals, a few new T5 bulbs, a couple lbs of gfo and carbon, bio pellets, new test kits, and still had money left over. At the same time I still have two strong pumps running. I still prefer the look of the vortechs since it has a slimmer profile, no cords in the tank, and has a more broad flow pattern. I just couldn't take the noise any longer. The wp40 is more quiet than the vortechs.

My name is toofrigginswt and I bought two tunze knockoffs. Lol.

 

[halmahera]

I have 4 MP40WES, all worked well for 2 years, now only 2 of them are working, the other 2 have problems on their wet side, the frames and bearings are broken, but nobody sell the parts here, I have to buy the whole wet side parts from the country "distributor". I guess WP40 will be in my top list considering they all will fail one day


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[SimonSKL]

Let me ask these questions:

If Hydor were the company to come up with the WP40, is this a knockoff?

Will Hydor be accused of stealing the patent from Ecotech or Tunze?

Can anyone with patent knowledge and laws tells us how the design of WP40 infringes the patent right of Ecotech or Tunze or any US company that holds such patent? Afterall propeller pumps has been around for a long time made by companies all over the world.

Which country is the first country invented propeller water pump driven by a motor?

 

[sirreal63]

Simon, instead of looking for reasons to justify it, do this instead. See if you can find a Chinese original design, of excellent quality with a warranty that is worth something backed up by a staff worldwide to handle any issues that may arise.

 

[bluereefs]

See if you can find a Chinese original design, of excellent quality with a warranty that is worth something backed up by a staff worldwide to handle any issues that may arise.

Original design first apear in Taiwan reefs, I think Thaiwan is Chinese provinence. Cone skimmer, here is the image

Every other cone skimmer in west market /USA - EU/ come after this skimmer. This is first image of cone skimmer what I am aware off.

Regarding customer supoort from Chinese companies, in my experiences is the best in the world, much better then any west company support I ever seen.

 

[xtlosx]

Original design first apear in Taiwan reefs, I think Thaiwan is Chinese provinence. Cone skimmer, here is the image

Every other cone skimmer in west market /USA - EU/ come after this skimmer. This is first image of cone skimmer what I am aware off.

Regarding customer supoort from Chinese companies, in my experiences is the best in the world, much better then any west company support I ever seen.

Chinese customer service is better than any western company?? Our of curiosity what Chinese company has such excellent customer service?

I run a lot of ecotech gear and their customer service is second to none and is a big reason why I will fork over the money. Replacements sent for not working items second day air. I have never gotten that service level from a foreign company.

 

[sirreal63]

Every other cone skimmer in west market /USA - EU/ come after this skimmer. This is first image of cone skimmer what I am aware off.

Regarding customer supoort from Chinese companies, in my experiences is the best in the world, much better then any west company support I ever seen.

BK was making cones in 2004, since you have no date posted it is hard to show.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13930018&postcount=238

 

[jahmic]

Lol...the last time I needed warranty coverage through a Chinese company was for an LED fixture. The controller went bad, as well as two drivers. Not only did I have to send in a video and picture evidence, but in the end they decided to only replace one of the drivers and I was left to my own devices with the rest of the issues. Translation: I had to purchase another driver, bypass the controller and use manual dimmers.

Yes...there are differences between companies... but turn-around time alone is enough to make me go with a company that offers domestic warranty service. When your system depends upon a piece of equipment to keep it from crashing, waiting on shipping from China sucks. Our local club recently did a WP40 group buy and most people bought a backup in anticipation of equipment failure and slow turnaround.

I'm not opposed to purchasing a wp40 at all...but will wait to see how they do and stick with my vortechs til then. It'll take some SOLID results to convince me that I've overpaid in going with ecotech.

 

[ksed]

I truly don't believe cone skimmers are an innovation.

 

[bluereefs]

No, above posted image is from RC thread posted long time ago, when koralenzuch anounces first cone images and then one of the Thaiwan reefer reefer posted this image from their local reef shop who use almost same cone skimmer.

What I know in 2004 there was no on the market any cone skimmer, not from BK not from any one in EU/USA. BK in that time sell their bubble king skimmer. And I do not believe that local Taiwan/Chinese manufactures have so briliant spy that they know what Royal Exclusiv had in his warehouse as a prototipe. First working cone skimmer image was one I posted above, what I am aware off.

 

[bluereefs]

Lol...the last time I needed warranty coverage through a Chinese company was for an LED fixture. The controller went bad, as well as two drivers. Not only did I have to send in a video and picture evidence, but in the end they decided to only replace one of the drivers and I was left to my own devices with the rest of the issues. Translation: I had to purchase another driver, bypass the controller and use manual dimmers.

Yes...there are differences between companies... but turn-around time alone is enough to make me go with a company that offers domestic warranty service. When your system depends upon a piece of equipment to keep it from crashing, waiting on shipping from China sucks. Our local club recently did a WP40 group buy and most people bought a backup in anticipation of equipment failure and slow turnaround.

I'm not opposed to purchasing a wp40 at all...but will wait to see how they do and stick with my vortechs til then. It'll take some SOLID results to convince me that I've overpaid in going with ecotech.

I buy few time from Eric /Fish street/ and he imideatly send new products in any case of malfunction or issue with shipping, no question asked and that is my exprience with all Chinese companie.

You wont to know my expirience with tunze but not with RVitko because is USA distributor, 2 set on tunze big stream with controlorer, IIRC aprox 600-700 euro each, worked 6 months, both set stop working, send to servise and that si not easy task when you need to send to other countrie to repair, after 1 months come from servis, worked 3 months and then stoped again, send to servis again, after one month come from servis worked 5 minutes and stop. There is no way that I will buy any tunze products anymore, my expirience with tunze equipment is 100 % malfunctioned in less then year, including nano skimmer and nano pack skimmer.