My 65 Gallon Mixed Reef

[cFloor]

biggles, what was your reasoning for removing your sand bed?

 

[biggles]

I am thinking of a 20g long to make it simpler. On one hand I want to just do water changes only, on the other hand I am sure it will be easier with a sump & skimmer on the system.

I will only be dosing 2 part & water changes. What would you do 5g/week or 10g every w weeks, or something different?

BTW, my Chinese light has these LED's.
6pcs Warm White(3500-4500K),
6pcs Neutral White(6500-7500K),
8pcs Cool White(10000-14000K),
2pcs Green 520nm,
2pcs Deep Red 660nm,
4pcs UV (400-420nm):
20pcs Blue 460nm,
7pcsRoyal Blue 450nm.


On the subject of coral placement on glass, I was always thinking one day I would do a black plexiglass back pane or cutting board black 1/4". I can use it to place many corals on the back panel & take it apart easily when tank needs to be sold.


2 percs, 1 angel, & coral banded shrimp is what I have on my other 29g tank now & I was thinking 2 maroon clowns, anthias, six line & another coral banded on this new one.

That all sounds fine to me mate. If you attach acrylic sheeting to the glass it makes super gluing frags easy as they grab hard onto plastic. 20-25% water changes weekly would be heaps, you still need to manage your bio load balance though. You could always drill and install an overflow but set it up sumpless and see how things go. I had a friend who did that with a 18" cube and he capped the holes under the tank so he could fill the overflow and keep the heater hidden in there. He had a small pump in the bottom of the overflow with a pipe going up and over into the display - seemed to work a treat.
Those LED units appear to have a good number of different colored bulbs, are you going to run one over the SPS tank.

biggles, what was your reasoning for removing your sand bed?

The only reason i removed the sand was because it's too small a grain size for the flow i have and blows all over the place exposing big bare patches of tank bottom. I am going to add larger grain sand back in asap because i don't like the bare bottom look one little bit, just my personal preference.

 

[sahin]

Biggles, are you still running GFO?

I am SO confused about GFO right at this moment...I'm in a dilemma really... The thing is, I've always believed that you need really low PO4 (like less than 0.03ppm) to get good SPS colours...

However, that Phosphate thread by Thales, really started me rethink GFO again...so lately, I've been checking out all my favorite SPS build threads over various forums and I've found a large number of these tanks do not utilise any GFO.

My buddy who I bank some of my corals with has awesome colours...and his PO4 is something like 0.1ppm...lately its been as high as 0.3ppm. His lights are homemade with really bad homemade T5 reflectors...but his coral colours are amazing.

Anyway, I took my GFO reactor off a few days ago...I tested PO4 the day after I took GFO reactor off and PO4 didnt increase. I will test it today and see if its still at the same place.

 

[FastUno]

That is exactly what I did with my 29g tank now. It is actually my sons tank that I made for him & I have a hole & bulkhead in with vinyl tubing. I even have a sump in there, but I don't have anything connected yet. Everything is doing good with just water changes. If I ever experience any emergencies, I will simply fill up with more water, add a return pump, & skimmer and I am good to go.

I did not even cap it, just have the water line below the bulkhead. You can sneak a peek at the video to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmZXUod2j3I


On the new all SPS tank I will do the same LED's & 2x T5's & if needed add another 2x T5's depending on future growth & needs. I will do sand in the SPS & do a minimalistic like you have done.

 

[Bello]

Nice pics of the anthias biggles :thumbsup:. They look nice and fat!! Remember the golden rule biggles, if it's bloody expensive....... it's not going to eat easily, it'll hide in the bloody corner all day, and you'll curse it and its memory to eternity :lol:. If it's cheap, beating it with a bloody stick out of water won't even scratch it .

The tank looks great biggles, despite all the ups and downs of the rollercoaster method, things do look good. The echinata needs a top down shot pronto, btw.

I had a look at the Tassie unit you linked (lol, really didn't know much about the Tassie/Aussie history, but I'm sure that you're the most reliable source in that regard ). I agree with Sahin here about the booster pump. I've heard that there are water shortages in Aus, that true? In which case the booster pump would be a good idea. Please consider this as well, http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/dm2.html. Two probes, one after RO, one at the end, and you'll never have to worry about source water....ever!!

I dislike seeing your bare bottom, biggles :sad2:, are we going to go through this again :blown:. What sand you thinking of? With the flow you've got in that tank, we'll have to start considering boulder sized pieces . What does Kevin have to say? Is he cool with the bare bott?

 

[sahin]

Biggles, if you can get Tropic Eden flakes in Aussie land then definitely go for that. Its one of the cleanest sands out there and the flakes stay put. Pity I cant get it in the UK...only seen a few bags once.

Caribsea etc are full of crap...twigs, dirt, etc etc.

Or else send Kevin out on an expedition to source some clean sand somewhere near the GBR.

 

[biggles]

Biggles, are you still running GFO?

I am SO confused about GFO right at this moment...I'm in a dilemma really... The thing is, I've always believed that you need really low PO4 (like less than 0.03ppm) to get good SPS colours...

However, that Phosphate thread by Thales, really started me rethink GFO again...so lately, I've been checking out all my favorite SPS build threads over various forums and I've found a large number of these tanks do not utilise any GFO.

My buddy who I bank some of my corals with has awesome colours...and his PO4 is something like 0.1ppm...lately its been as high as 0.3ppm. His lights are homemade with really bad homemade T5 reflectors...but his coral colours are amazing.

Anyway, I took my GFO reactor off a few days ago...I tested PO4 the day after I took GFO reactor off and PO4 didnt increase. I will test it today and see if its still at the same place.

Hi mate, i stopped GFO completely since i never used it previously or ever considered testing phosphate levels in previous successful SPS systems years ago when no one else cared about phos either. I find that monitoring nutrient levels with my eyes is much simpler rather than when receiving conflicting info from the Hanna etc. I'll test phos in a few months just to see where it's sitting but i really don't care what the levels are because they simply don't matter imo after considering my previous husbandry techniques and the information revealed in Thale's thread.
I don't believe you should aim for a phos level at all, i believe you should simply disregard it unless you have very serious issues with your system and even then it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that phos promotes algae growth so if things are crap and algae is rampant your nutrient balance is out of whack. Other than Alk, calcium, Mg and salinity i won't be using tests again just like i never did until returning to the hobby and thinking things had changed and everyone knew more than 10 years ago - they don't and monitoring nitrates and phos etc is a wanky waste of time let alone trying to maintain some made up plucked out of the air levels as is routinely parroted in advice to others here.
Feed as much as your system will take without algae issues and look to clean the front glass every 2-3 days as a great guide - keeping SPS isn't hard if you don't try to follow others that are following others who had no idea in the first place.
If algae is everywhere and the Hanna says zero i see everyone say well that's because the algae is stripping it so fast it won't show - well why do people even bother testing the phos when they know this stuff and they know the phos is high already because that's why the bloody level stripping algae is going nuts. The only benefit to the reef hobby from the phos wank is to reef suppliers like Hanna.........

Rant over........ i'm in a bad mood about my RO debacle.

That is exactly what I did with my 29g tank now. It is actually my sons tank that I made for him & I have a hole & bulkhead in with vinyl tubing. I even have a sump in there, but I don't have anything connected yet. Everything is doing good with just water changes. If I ever experience any emergencies, I will simply fill up with more water, add a return pump, & skimmer and I am good to go.

I did not even cap it, just have the water line below the bulkhead. You can sneak a peek at the video to see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmZXUod2j3I


On the new all SPS tank I will do the same LED's & 2x T5's & if needed add another 2x T5's depending on future growth & needs. I will do sand in the SPS & do a minimalistic like you have done.

Thanks for the video mate, looked great. I'd definitely use T5's with your LED's as a few colored bulbs are not going to be evenly divided to all the corals due to LED spotlighting so you really need to get a good spectrum to all your acros rather than some getting more green and other more red etc - that's why even the 'full spectrum' chinese lights don't do as well as the better designed and much more expensive LED models. When they sort out a way to blend the LED bulbs into an even spectrum across the entire area being illuminated i will consider giving it a try, until then i wouldn't do it unless i had T5's to fill in the blank spots associated with LED's.

Nice pics of the anthias biggles :thumbsup:. They look nice and fat!! Remember the golden rule biggles, if it's bloody expensive....... it's not going to eat easily, it'll hide in the bloody corner all day, and you'll curse it and its memory to eternity :lol:. If it's cheap, beating it with a bloody stick out of water won't even scratch it .

The tank looks great biggles, despite all the ups and downs of the rollercoaster method, things do look good. The echinata needs a top down shot pronto, btw.

I had a look at the Tassie unit you linked (lol, really didn't know much about the Tassie/Aussie history, but I'm sure that you're the most reliable source in that regard ). I agree with Sahin here about the booster pump. I've heard that there are water shortages in Aus, that true? In which case the booster pump would be a good idea. Please consider this as well, http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/dm2.html. Two probes, one after RO, one at the end, and you'll never have to worry about source water....ever!!

I dislike seeing your bare bottom, biggles :sad2:, are we going to go through this again :blown:. What sand you thinking of? With the flow you've got in that tank, we'll have to start considering boulder sized pieces . What does Kevin have to say? Is he cool with the bare bott?

Hi mate, i received the new RO unit today with the included hand held TDS meter. Tested the tap water - 37 Tested the RO i was using - 31 :facepalm:
The new unit is running and the output is zero as it should be. I'm ordering 5 kilos of rowacarbon to start dragging out all the crap i've poisoned the acros with but i think it's going to take a while to correct what i've done.
Is there any chemical/heavy metal absorber you guys can recommend i run other than carbon. How about that chemiclean stuff i see mentioned here and there, i want to order stuff asap for obvious reasons. I have enough NSW for a 30% change tomorrow and will keep doing them weekly for a month or two.

Whilst it sucks to find out the problem at least i finally found something wrong that i can address rather than just sitting here watching my acros die day by day. Speaking of Kevin, he was surfing RC last night while i was watching TV so i told him to check out Sahin's journal - i caught him just before he submitted a reply under my account name which would have resulted in a ban for sure. Koalas don't like being made to wait for a FTS and despite their cuddly look they possess an expletive laden vocabulary.
He did refer to Sahin as a 'gumnut' which probably isn't good in Koala speak........ 'looks like %@#$' is how he described the bare bottom btw........

Biggles, if you can get Tropic Eden flakes in Aussie land then definitely go for that. Its one of the cleanest sands out there and the flakes stay put. Pity I cant get it in the UK...only seen a few bags once.

Caribsea etc are full of crap...twigs, dirt, etc etc.

Or else send Kevin out on an expedition to source some clean sand somewhere near the GBR.

Can't find the Tropic Eden stuff in Aus so that sucks. Kevin won't go near the ocean ever since i used him as a teaser for the marlin lures i was running, he thought he was surfing right up until he was smacked in the head by a black marlin bill lol. Kevin and i have been through a lot over the years

Edit: I think the stuff i was meaning earlier was polyfilter not chemiclean.

 

[sahin]

Yeah the stuff is Polyfilter, Chemiclean is for Cyanno. Polyfilter is good stuff, but $h!* expensive in the UK...there are other cheapo brands but they are all fake filter wool...

You ordered a butt load of Carbon...just take it easy with the carbon at least the first week or so.

Wow, you get 37 out the tap? The London water is like 340-360 TDS!!! :wildone:

I remember a few years ago, I got my younger bro into reefkeeping...and he borrowed my TDS meter and didnt return it for months...in that time the TDS coming out my RODI unit was like 18 or something, but I didnt know this until later...didnt take long for my tank to start getting Dinos and other bad algae...with tap water you just dont know what the heck is ending up in your tank.

With regards to Phosphate...hmmm...I dont know how the use of GFO crept into the hobby...and Thales's thread really made me rethink the use of GFO...and the fact that you never used GFO previously but had good SPS colour tells me I need to try it without GFO for a while.

I've gone over my notes/log of PO4 tests and cross referenced this to various photos I took about 9 months ago and even when I had 0.07ppm PO4, I still have decent colour on some of my SPS pieces...So for the time being no GFO it will be. If I need to use any GFO I will run the Phosguard stuff for a few days every month like most people do with GAC.

By the way Biggles...please tell Kevin that I KNOW where HE lives...:blown:

 

[biggles]

Hi mate, yes i had a quick look and it's bloody expensive but considering the high TDS i've been putting in the system for months i think i'll run it at least once. I ordered 2 kg of rowacarbon for now and will run a cup full passively for the next 3 months at least. I'll change it out weekly for a month and then every fortnight for a couple of months, that's the only reason i was talking 5 kilos, not to run a large amount suddenly. 2 kilos should last a couple of months for starters.
Yeah the tap water is clean, my last place was 140 out of the tap. Btw i scrubbed the 25L ATO container with RO and rinsed it out. Filled it with zero TDS RO and tested the ATO water 2 hours later - 4. :deadhorse1: I've re cleaned the ATO container and filled it again and got a reading of 1 after 3 hours so tomorrow i'll give it another clean which should just about fix it.

biggles RO tip (my new RO unit makes me an expert)

Check the TDS of your plastic ATO storage container every month as stuff can build up and taint your zero TDS water.

In regards to GFO i don't think it's a case of having to abandon it if your tank is running well - just run as much as you think you need to feed as heavily as you want whilst keeping watch on algae growth. Just don't bother testing the phos levels as the only thing that matters is what you see not how good you are at holding a set phos level. GFO is still a good thing imo because it can allow you to feed larger amounts and i know reefers too well to think most will give up a hobby security blanket - GFO. For those new to the hobby i think it has a place until they get a better hand on maintaining their nutrient balance.
Nothing wrong with GFO at all but phos levels are not the holy grail answer to SPS success - running lots of food in and out of the water results in raised levels of pollution (phos). It's not the phos giving you success as i was keeping it unmeasurable and my colors are very saturated, it's the feeding and increased bio life also reproducing and filtering your water that is giving you SPS success. Whether you run or don't run GFO makes no difference, treat it just like your skimmer and use it to control the extra food you're introducing nothing more. If you feel comfy keeping a set phos level then do it, just because i do things one way doesn't mean you can't have success doing it differently. :beer:

I bet Kevin twenty bucks that he couldn't ride the next door neighbor's rottweiler - i'll pass along your message when i visit him at the animal hospital tomorrow............ :hmm5:

 

[FastUno]

Feed as much as your system will take without algae issues and look to clean the front glass every 2-3 days as a great guide

You had posted before how much you fed & the way you fed, and there was no way I could do what you did without major cyano & algae. Now that my tank is mature & has all that filter feeder growth that you describe I can feed so much. I feed 6-7 times a day now & 1x with frozen foods too. I went over a week without having to clean the front glass, so I threw in some raw shrimp in the tank to generate growth on the glass.


Do you think the stuff we scrape off the glass feeds the corals? I think it does.


I hear you about the LED lights blending, but that is why I have them over 13" above the water line. The coral responses have been super so far, so I am no longer worried about that & I think I can get away with just LED's on this mixed tank. I might not be able to do the same with an all SPS tank with acros & such, & I will most likely need the T5's as you suggested.


Interesting read on the GFO & I have to find that Thales thread now. Whenever I ran it my tank always appeared healthier, but heck this could all be coincidental & an illusion. I have had cyano with GFO at various stages too.


Biggles, how do you feel about this guys tank? He does weekly water changes with real sea salt water & uses the AI Vega LED's. He has quite an impressive collection of SPS's, wouldn't you agree?

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/tank-threads/155477-my-72-gall-bow-front.html

 

[Fishy 1]

Thanks very much mate. Skimmers are the greatest invention since sliced bread imo lol. They tick along day in and out removing crap you don't really want in the water and even if something craps itself in the middle of the night while you're sleeping the trusty skimmer will pull the crud out for you.

Make sure you post a link to your journal here so i can follow along.



I agree that the skimmer is the best equipment in my tankand I will start a thread following the tanks progress:thumbup:
I put the rock and sand in today, its amazing that when you get thee rock right it make the tank look so much bigger and open I don't think it will look as good as yours but I'm stoked with how the rock looks, time to fill her up tomorrow and get it cycling

 

[dallasg]

this is one awesome thread!!!
one awesome tank!!

and i love the comments, info and sharing, read it in 2 days

 

[markalot]

My water is 290 TDS, 2 TDS out of the RO, 0 TDS out of DI. I do have dual RO membranes because I'm paranoid, but it always seems to be around 2 TDS. This is measured with an inline meter and most do not temperature correct, so it may be as high as 4.

I would think with 36 TDS you should be able to get way down to near 0, but I guess it all depends on what is in that 36 TDS. Probably Vegemite.

 

[biggles]

You had posted before how much you fed & the way you fed, and there was no way I could do what you did without major cyano & algae. Now that my tank is mature & has all that filter feeder growth that you describe I can feed so much. I feed 6-7 times a day now & 1x with frozen foods too. I went over a week without having to clean the front glass, so I threw in some raw shrimp in the tank to generate growth on the glass.


Do you think the stuff we scrape off the glass feeds the corals? I think it does.


I hear you about the LED lights blending, but that is why I have them over 13" above the water line. The coral responses have been super so far, so I am no longer worried about that & I think I can get away with just LED's on this mixed tank. I might not be able to do the same with an all SPS tank with acros & such, & I will most likely need the T5's as you suggested.


Interesting read on the GFO & I have to find that Thales thread now. Whenever I ran it my tank always appeared healthier, but heck this could all be coincidental & an illusion. I have had cyano with GFO at various stages too.


Biggles, how do you feel about this guys tank? He does weekly water changes with real sea salt water & uses the AI Vega LED's. He has quite an impressive collection of SPS's, wouldn't you agree?

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/tank-threads/155477-my-72-gall-bow-front.html

That tank looks like a bloody nice mixed reef mate. I don't see why corals wouldn't consume algae as they grab nori to eat so who knows

I agree that the skimmer is the best equipment in my tankand I will start a thread following the tanks progress:thumbup:
I put the rock and sand in today, its amazing that when you get thee rock right it make the tank look so much bigger and open I don't think it will look as good as yours but I'm stoked with how the rock looks, time to fill her up tomorrow and get it cycling

Looking forward to seeing your setup mate, it will look as good as YOU think it does and so long as it puts a smile on your dial it really doesn't matter how it compares with other tanks.

this is one awesome thread!!!
one awesome tank!!

and i love the comments, info and sharing, read it in 2 days

Thanks very much mate, i think i've shown just how tough acros are considering what i've put mine through in the last couple of months. :uhoh3:

My water is 290 TDS, 2 TDS out of the RO, 0 TDS out of DI. I do have dual RO membranes because I'm paranoid, but it always seems to be around 2 TDS. This is measured with an inline meter and most do not temperature correct, so it may be as high as 4.

I would think with 36 TDS you should be able to get way down to near 0, but I guess it all depends on what is in that 36 TDS. Probably Vegemite.

Hi mate, getting zero TDS readings from the new RO unit so i have confidence that things will pick up once i remove the majority of contaminants from the water. The rock will have absorbed a bit so that will take longer to draw out but i'll get things rocking again i'm sure.

Here's a piece of echi top down for you Bello, the branches are whitening up nicely - hopefully not from being poisoned by me lol. The bleached thing above it is looking suspiciously like a green hue is developing - %#$@^ !!!!

I've ordered a bag of this sand to check out btw - 3-5mm sand

 

[sahin]

That Echi looks sweet. Hmm...what is that green monstrosity sitting above the Echi... I mean come on Biggles...we expect better quality acros from you...If its green then at least Blue+Green or Red+Green...:bounce3: <---green...

This sand (http://www.guppysaquariumproducts.com.au/sands-coral-sand-3-5mm-10kg.html appears to be VERY nice mate. Its states triple washed...which if true and really washed nicely then thats a big plus.

Lets hope the tank starts to pickup from here on and the green acros all turn to shortcakes.

 

[Fishy 1]

Sorry for going off coarse but yesterday I added some water to the tank to keep the rock happy and I found a leak in my overflow box, normally it wouldn't be a problem but because I'm using a self priming siphon it could drain the tank. So out came to silicone and patched it up with the end of a fishing rod( I regret making the overflow so tight :-( ) it looks like it fixed the leak, let's hope it stays that way

 

[biggles]

That Echi looks sweet. Hmm...what is that green monstrosity sitting above the Echi... I mean come on Biggles...we expect better quality acros from you...If its green then at least Blue+Green or Red+Green...:bounce3: <---green...

This sand (http://www.guppysaquariumproducts.com.au/sands-coral-sand-3-5mm-10kg.html appears to be VERY nice mate. Its states triple washed...which if true and really washed nicely then thats a big plus.

Lets hope the tank starts to pickup from here on and the green acros all turn to shortcakes.

I only ordered one bag of that sand to check it out in case it's not significantly larger grain size than what i removed. I'm not going to be happy if that pale acro greens out on me Sahin lol.
Things are still going downhill atm but hopefully a week or two will see the concentration of toxins drop and tissue loss stopping. Did about 20% water change today.

Sorry for going off coarse but yesterday I added some water to the tank to keep the rock happy and I found a leak in my overflow box, normally it wouldn't be a problem but because I'm using a self priming siphon it could drain the tank. So out came to silicone and patched it up with the end of a fishing rod( I regret making the overflow so tight :-( ) it looks like it fixed the leak, let's hope it stays that way

Hi mate, keep a close eye on that repair in case it doesn't take - good work spotting it before you had the whole thing stocked :thumbsup:
If you can keep coral happy you can keep Xmas tree worms and feather dusters with ease mate - i think i saw you start a thread about what they need.


I made a short top down video closeup of one of my fluoro pieces shedding tissue so anyone who hasn't seen tissue necrosis occurring up close can see how the tissue comes away in sheets. Shortly after the video that big piece of tissue let go and went into a WP-25 which blew fluoro 'glitter' over the whole tank lol. You can see various areas that have died up to 2 weeks ago with funky green slime on them, the paler the dead bits are the less time they've been dead basically. Watch it in HD fullscreen for best viewing of the tissue loss.

I don't really enjoy sharing these things with you as it's pretty depressing stuff but i know how hard it was trying to understand what SPS guys were describing when i was starting out in relation to RTN and STN etc so on with the show.........:worried:

 

[cFloor]

Your new echinata looks very nice, one of my favorite acros. That STN video is hard to watch, but interesting at the same time. Quick question for you: When you replace your sand are you going to use live or dead sand and how much at a time are you going to add. thanks

 

[biggles]

Your new echinata looks very nice, one of my favorite acros. That STN video is hard to watch, but interesting at the same time. Quick question for you: When you replace your sand are you going to use live or dead sand and how much at a time are you going to add. thanks

Hi mate, i always just use dry coral sand and wash the you know what out of it regardless of how well it's claimed to have been washed by the supplier.
I'll add the whole 10kg bag i have ordered and only get more if i can't get good coverage with that amount. I want it as shallow as possible to minimize detritus building up in it and stir it around weekly with a fork or something similar.

 

[cFloor]

Cool, thanks for the reply. Reason I asked is because my cube has been up and running for a year and a half without sand and I'm planning on adding some reef flakes, i just didnt know how fast I should add it. I too will make it as shallow as possible.

I'm looking forward to seeing your reef after you do this