My Chiller Setup **Lots of pictures**
- Thread starter ReefRelated
- Start date
STRANGLEHOLD.
Seems like you are on the right track and about to be set to go. althought a superheat of 43 f is way too high and you will not be bringing the refrigerant back cool enough and will not remove enough heat from the compressor generated by the compressor friction. I am assuming you are using refrigerant 22. Freon only if it is manufactured by dupont
. thats actually a model designation for r-12 and r-22 made by dupont. anyway you should try for a superheat closer to 10 F .
to find superheat you take the suction saturation temperature from the actual temperature of the suction line itself near the evaporator. on your gauges there should be green numbers. those numbers represent your suction saturation temperature or the temperature in the coil where the last bit of liquid refrigerant boils and is in a complete gas state. This should happen somewhere near the 75% area of the evaporator. Any heat gained after this causes the refrigerant to be superheated. so in the last 25% of the evaporator you want it to gain approximately 10 F. this given as your line temperature. Too little superheat can cause liquid back to your compressor. Compressors are vapor pumps not water pumps. Since you can't compress liquid very well you see how this can be a problem.
You should also check subcooling to insure your condensor is operating properly.
check this the same way except you use the liquid line temperature and your head pressure/temp relationship. Your subcooling should be at least 15 F the higher the better.
a good rule to try to use is grandfathers rule where you add 30 f to the outside ambient temperature and check that against your head pressure/temp.
75 F outside + 30 F = 95 F
95 F = 182 psig
so if everything is sized well together your head pressure would be somewhere near 180-185 psig.
always charge by temperature is what I say I don't care anything about pressure really. All I care is about not going far over 80 psig on a really hot day with alot of load. there doesn't seem to be enough difference in temps to do alot of good. Make sure your suction temp is above 32 F for you know water freezes at 32 F. this can cause ice to form on the evaporator coil. not sure if you have a pressure/temperature chart but 32 F = 58 psig so if you have a suction pressure above 58 psig that will at least work and you can mess with flow if at this point your superheat is correct.
hope this helps some
Seems like you are on the right track and about to be set to go. althought a superheat of 43 f is way too high and you will not be bringing the refrigerant back cool enough and will not remove enough heat from the compressor generated by the compressor friction. I am assuming you are using refrigerant 22. Freon only if it is manufactured by dupont
. thats actually a model designation for r-12 and r-22 made by dupont. anyway you should try for a superheat closer to 10 F .to find superheat you take the suction saturation temperature from the actual temperature of the suction line itself near the evaporator. on your gauges there should be green numbers. those numbers represent your suction saturation temperature or the temperature in the coil where the last bit of liquid refrigerant boils and is in a complete gas state. This should happen somewhere near the 75% area of the evaporator. Any heat gained after this causes the refrigerant to be superheated. so in the last 25% of the evaporator you want it to gain approximately 10 F. this given as your line temperature. Too little superheat can cause liquid back to your compressor. Compressors are vapor pumps not water pumps. Since you can't compress liquid very well you see how this can be a problem.
You should also check subcooling to insure your condensor is operating properly.
check this the same way except you use the liquid line temperature and your head pressure/temp relationship. Your subcooling should be at least 15 F the higher the better.
a good rule to try to use is grandfathers rule where you add 30 f to the outside ambient temperature and check that against your head pressure/temp.
75 F outside + 30 F = 95 F
95 F = 182 psig
so if everything is sized well together your head pressure would be somewhere near 180-185 psig.
always charge by temperature is what I say I don't care anything about pressure really. All I care is about not going far over 80 psig on a really hot day with alot of load. there doesn't seem to be enough difference in temps to do alot of good. Make sure your suction temp is above 32 F for you know water freezes at 32 F. this can cause ice to form on the evaporator coil. not sure if you have a pressure/temperature chart but 32 F = 58 psig so if you have a suction pressure above 58 psig that will at least work and you can mess with flow if at this point your superheat is correct.
hope this helps some
dvups1
Premium Member
Finally got mine together!!!
Finally got mine together!!!
First and foremost I want to thank everyone on this thread for posting all their methods and results. I read everything and rounded up all the parts and finally got it together tonight. Here are som pictures of how it went together.
Finally got mine together!!!
First and foremost I want to thank everyone on this thread for posting all their methods and results. I read everything and rounded up all the parts and finally got it together tonight. Here are som pictures of how it went together.
AcroSteve
Make my Funk a P-Funk
Could you recomend one? Grainger has several - ranging from $89 - $302
Any other sources for one cheap?
I hope I can find something other than this.http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611632208
Or http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611630449
I had wondered about this in the back of my mind.
Do these slow the fan at colder temps? Right now, I am using the highest fan speed. Mine is cooling my tank 1 degree in about 15 minutes.
I do not have my charge dialed in yet. Waiting on some higher temps. Last I checked, my suction pressure was 65psi(34 F) and the temp was 64. Ambient was 72. - this is from memory. So I may be a little off on the 34 F. Getting to a superheat of 10 is looking like a stretch. Does that leave me much room for error?
What happens if you do not have one?
Any other sources for one cheap?
I hope I can find something other than this.http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611632208
Or http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?xi=xi&ItemId=1611630449
I had wondered about this in the back of my mind.
Do these slow the fan at colder temps? Right now, I am using the highest fan speed. Mine is cooling my tank 1 degree in about 15 minutes.
I do not have my charge dialed in yet. Waiting on some higher temps. Last I checked, my suction pressure was 65psi(34 F) and the temp was 64. Ambient was 72. - this is from memory. So I may be a little off on the 34 F. Getting to a superheat of 10 is looking like a stretch. Does that leave me much room for error?
What happens if you do not have one?
STRANGLEHOLD
your charge is actually still low if your suction pressure is 64psig/34 F and your superheat is still high. on a warm day your suction temp can be up 40-45F . Stop either at that temp or whenever you get to 10F superheat. Did you check it like I said ?
You should be able to get a fan cycling control from your local a/c supply house that screws onto your high side access port. Buy a tee so you can still check your pressure if needed.
What happens when the ambient drops below any temp depends on the load . It may run just fine at -10F that would be something you would have to check in that situation. It's not likely the suction saturation temp would stay above 32F but you never know til you check it. I live in florida and we don't really need such controls because it never stays below 32 F ambient. It is very hard to freeze as much water as we are running though these coils. The chiller would likely satisfy and if there was any ice would surely thaw before the temp in the tank rose. I believe this is why there not included on most manufacturers products. You can garauntee if they add them to there product they will pass the charge onto the consumer. Nobody includes anything for free.
stranglehold
is 64 the line temp?
is the suction line sweating? it should be.
It is perfectly ok to charge a system at 72F ambinet temp. Just recheck it on a hot day if your worried.
GOOD LUCK BULLDOGGER1
your charge is actually still low if your suction pressure is 64psig/34 F and your superheat is still high. on a warm day your suction temp can be up 40-45F . Stop either at that temp or whenever you get to 10F superheat. Did you check it like I said ?
You should be able to get a fan cycling control from your local a/c supply house that screws onto your high side access port. Buy a tee so you can still check your pressure if needed.
What happens when the ambient drops below any temp depends on the load . It may run just fine at -10F that would be something you would have to check in that situation. It's not likely the suction saturation temp would stay above 32F but you never know til you check it. I live in florida and we don't really need such controls because it never stays below 32 F ambient. It is very hard to freeze as much water as we are running though these coils. The chiller would likely satisfy and if there was any ice would surely thaw before the temp in the tank rose. I believe this is why there not included on most manufacturers products. You can garauntee if they add them to there product they will pass the charge onto the consumer. Nobody includes anything for free.
stranglehold
is 64 the line temp?
is the suction line sweating? it should be.
It is perfectly ok to charge a system at 72F ambinet temp. Just recheck it on a hot day if your worried.
GOOD LUCK BULLDOGGER1
AcroSteve
Make my Funk a P-Funk
Robthorn, Thanks again for the great help. I am just gunshy on charging to a unknown system after locking up my heat pump with an overcharge of about 3 lbs. I did not know what it took, but I had it service previously and the guy wrote 10lbs on the invoice, so I when I charged it, I put in about 8.5 or 9 and started checking. Well it should have had about 6. Locked it up before I knew what happened. $2400 later, I had a new Trane heat pump. Bettoer off in the long run, but I has steamed for a while.
So without any fan control, the condenser would just ice up and then no air flow across it, right?
Is the fan cycling control something I can add later if I have a problem? Or could I damage my compressor without it when the temps drop.
I think my load is pretty light. Even with the system undercharged now, the chiller is running about 15 minutes every 3 hours while the tank lights are on. Might be a little more if I dod not have the ac on in the house.
Again, why 65 degrees? I would have thought I would be OK down into the 30's or 40's.
So without any fan control, the condenser would just ice up and then no air flow across it, right?
Is the fan cycling control something I can add later if I have a problem? Or could I damage my compressor without it when the temps drop.
I think my load is pretty light. Even with the system undercharged now, the chiller is running about 15 minutes every 3 hours while the tank lights are on. Might be a little more if I dod not have the ac on in the house.
Again, why 65 degrees? I would have thought I would be OK down into the 30's or 40's.
Carribean Reef Man
Premium Member
Ok so just when I thought this was going to be easy you guys throw all of this heatload, suction temp, blah, blah, blah. Ok I live in Wisconsin Land of the Freaking Cold.
What do I have to woory about I am thinking about building one of these set-ups for my 1100.
Please let me know.
What do I have to woory about I am thinking about building one of these set-ups for my 1100.
Please let me know.
If you are undercharged your suction saturation temperature is lower therefore your indoor coil will freeze up faster . the condenser will not freeze unless your in heat pump mode when it actually changes into the evaporator. I don't know where the 65F came from but when the outside temp lowers so does the refrigerant temperatures in your system because the condenser becomes more efficient at lower ambients. Every system will be different there are too many variables determining this. Is it in the sun or maybe is there a breeze blowing across the coil. If you are worried about the evaporator freezing up charge the system fully like I told you and you cannot overcharge it. It's just impossible because this is exactly the way the compressor was designed to run. However it was not designed to run with the refrigerant temperature entering the compressor above 65 F. This "WILL" cause compressor damage and shorten its life.
With the #'s you have given me so far it should charge perfectly. When I charge air conditioning I actually overcharge every sytem just a hair and try to achieve a superheat of 6-7 degrees to try to pull more humidity out of the air and make you feel cooler at a higher temp. So as long as there is at least 1 F superheat it will work fine . I am not recommending this I am just trying to make you understand you don't need to be afriad.
Next time you want to charge your home a/c look at the name plate on your condenser and it will tell you what charge the manufacturer ships the unit with. This is a very good starting point and most of the time a complete charge. pipe size and length being the determining factors.
In short charge your darn unit
With the #'s you have given me so far it should charge perfectly. When I charge air conditioning I actually overcharge every sytem just a hair and try to achieve a superheat of 6-7 degrees to try to pull more humidity out of the air and make you feel cooler at a higher temp. So as long as there is at least 1 F superheat it will work fine . I am not recommending this I am just trying to make you understand you don't need to be afriad.
Next time you want to charge your home a/c look at the name plate on your condenser and it will tell you what charge the manufacturer ships the unit with. This is a very good starting point and most of the time a complete charge. pipe size and length being the determining factors.
In short charge your darn unit
oh yeah my mother taught me to say your welcome but I was accidentally rude. so your welcome 
Carribean did you mean 1100 gallons?
If so SWEET I would love to have that big of a pool in my living room. anyway I am not sure what lighting you have but I would say you should probably build something near the 1 ton/hp/12,000 btu system . If you use the sw wilson evaporator I would say you would need about 1600 - 2000 gallons / hr running through the coil. this is just a guess I would probably get a pump around 2000 and put a ball valve on the outlet of the pump incase its too much.
Carribean did you mean 1100 gallons?
If so SWEET I would love to have that big of a pool in my living room. anyway I am not sure what lighting you have but I would say you should probably build something near the 1 ton/hp/12,000 btu system . If you use the sw wilson evaporator I would say you would need about 1600 - 2000 gallons / hr running through the coil. this is just a guess I would probably get a pump around 2000 and put a ball valve on the outlet of the pump incase its too much.
65 degrees
65 degrees
RobThorn-
A fan cycling control will keep your pressure up in colder wheather. What about liquid migrating to the compressor?
PS-Most residential system, including window unit, are not designed to run below 59-64 degrees without any low ambient kit. 65 degrees is the safe point.
65 degrees
RobThorn-
A fan cycling control will keep your pressure up in colder wheather. What about liquid migrating to the compressor?
PS-Most residential system, including window unit, are not designed to run below 59-64 degrees without any low ambient kit. 65 degrees is the safe point.
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