My experience with advice from other hobbyists.

[drakedeming]

OP, when this does not work out, please continue to post and try to learn from others on the board.

That being said a mandarin in a tank less than a month(let alone a year) old is a huge mistake.

 

[CuzzA]

"Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't."

 

[ravenzme]

i know these are odd comparisons but every time i see a thread where somebody thinks it's ok to push the limits with stocking a tank, i am reminded of why i have 2 rescued great danes and 3 rescued pot bellied pigs. over and over, i have tried to pound it into people that the cute little piglet that now weighs 7# will eventually grow to 90# plus, it will outgrow the little playpen you plan to put it in and then you are left with an animal that nobody wants. and that cute little great dane puppy with the big floppy ears will be 100# before the year is up and yes, they eat a lot and knock your kids down and chew holes in your couch big enough to hide a buick in.

to me, housing fish in inappropriate tanks is no different than keeping a 90# pig in a playpen or a 100# dog in a tiny laundry room. it isn't fair to the animal whether it has bristles, fur or scales. period! these are living creatures that, when we decide to keep them, deserve every bit of respect we can give them. torture shouldn't be an option.

end of rant.

Not an odd comparison at all. Reading your perspective does help me understand some of the brutal replies. Your experience does highlight the fact that there are people out there who just don't get it in regards to humanly treating another creature. I guess I had hoped to see people giving the guy a chance and try to educate him so he would hopefully wise up. But as your post illustrates, sometimes that is a lost cause. Thank you for your well put perspective.

 

[Fade2White12]

Wow, OP was completely destroyed in this thread. OP is obviously very new to this, and like anyone new, made some poor choices and no doubt overconfident about his ability to "beat the odds". To an experienced person, the mistakes appear so obvious, but again, this is a new person to the hobby. The reason I rarely post to these forums is it is like almost any other internet board - destroy the n00b rather than try to teach and move the hobby forward.

Probably not a popular sentiment, so flame away. My two cents.

This hobby isn't like needlepoint or building ships in bottles. Mistakes not only cost money, but they result in the loss of living beings. For most regulars here, we have a true love and admiration for these animals and care only about their wellbeing. So I think it is actually more appropriate to come down harder on people who behave in ways that put livestock at risk.

As said before, being new does not automatically result in hostility from people here - it's when people act like the OP.

 

[ravenzme]

This hobby isn't like needlepoint or building ships in bottles. Mistakes not only cost money, but they result in the loss of living beings. For most regulars here, we have a true love and admiration for these animals and care only about their wellbeing. So I think it is actually more appropriate to come down harder on people who behave in ways that put livestock at risk.

As said before, being new does not automatically result in hostility from people here - it's when people act like the OP.

I think you are missing my point. You MAY have the ability to persuade the OP to change course and understand the danger to the animals involved...or, tear them to pieces and they walk away from the forums. Honestly, I would prefer OP stay on the forums, learn from experience of others. Its hard to trust folks when they are publicly ripping you a part, even if they have a very good reason for doing so. It may feel good tearing into someone doing something terrible, but it would be more effective to educate them into stopping. Again, just my opinion.

 

[Fade2White12]

I think you are missing my point. You MAY have the ability to persuade the OP to change course and understand the danger to the animals involved...or, tear them to pieces and they walk away from the forums. Honestly, I would prefer OP stay on the forums, learn from experience of others. Its hard to trust folks when they are publicly ripping you a part, even if they have a very good reason for doing so. It may feel good tearing into someone doing something terrible, but it would be more effective to educate them into stopping. Again, just my opinion.

I'm not missing the point at all.

The OP stated that they've done significant research on the fish, their profile states that they do own (or have owned) numerous fresh and saltwater tanks, and if not through their own experiences, but through the collective knowledge and experience of members at RC, they've had access to this board for the last two months since joining. Yet, in the face of all this, they continue to defy all advice and evidence that what they are doing is just wrong.

In this instance, it appears obvious that simple access to education has not been successful in getting the OP to reform. What's next other than "tough love?" Discipline can be just as effective, if not more, than your approach. And based on what we've seen here, it's the appropriate tactic for this situation.

 

[Wazzel]

Clowns and purple tangs have a history of being aggressive. Their natural demeanor is just that way. I kept a purple and it did indeed get mean after a while in my old 160, even tho it started of quite peaceful. Clown tangs get big. Personally I would not keep one in a 110. I doubt your long term experience with these fish will be much different that people that have kept them in the past.

 

[KafudaFish]

"Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't."

True but if it is a negative experience with poor results what value is there in attempting to repeat the process in order to gain that experience? How many times do you have to touch a hot stove and get a burn before you conclude that it is a bad idea?

The two should be combined to increase the chances of long-term success in the terms of years not days or weeks.

The OP has neither but others do and have expressed their opinions through their experiences and education.

Sounds like Einstein's quote regarding insanity doesn't it?

 

[kruse47]

I'm not going to take sides here but rather add a point that i feel needs to be brought up. On the subject of Tangs, we should be asking yourselves, is there really any tank that is suitable for these fish, or any fish for that matter. I mean we are taking fish out of a "open system" ocean that is Billions of gallons and putting them into "closed systems" that have a limit. Really zoos are the only places that most of these fish belong because they are the only places that can come close to real ocean conditions. Personally i think there is a limit on how small a tank can be before its too small for tangs, but for the most part if the fish is healthy and is eating well who cares. And at the end of the day its your tank you do with it as you will. we are all adults and this guy obviously has his mind set and that's his prerogative. I would say that this whole conversation could have been handle with a little more tact and constructiveness. But Tang Police will be Tang Police.

 

[tkeracer619]

It's a public forum for discussion. When you come on here and make posts like this you are going to **** people off. Surprised it lasted this long.

 

[slief]

i know these are odd comparisons but every time i see a thread where somebody thinks it's ok to push the limits with stocking a tank, i am reminded of why i have 2 rescued great danes and 3 rescued pot bellied pigs.

I know why!!! Because Great Danes LOVE bacon!!!!


You have a heart of gold! I grew up with Danes.. We have a 5 year old Blue Harlequin. They are the best and sweetest dogs of all IMO! Funny thing is, we have given thought to a pot belly pig too but given all the animals we already have and the fact that Pot Belly's aren't very soft and cuddly, we have thus far passed on that endeavor. They are cute as hell though.

Wow, OP was completely destroyed in this thread. OP is obviously very new to this, and like anyone new, made some poor choices and no doubt overconfident about his ability to "beat the odds". To an experienced person, the mistakes appear so obvious, but again, this is a new person to the hobby. The reason I rarely post to these forums is it is like almost any other internet board - destroy the n00b rather than try to teach and move the hobby forward.

Probably not a popular sentiment, so flame away. My two cents.

I think many of us made the same or similar mistake when we first got into the hobby which makes this situation even more frustrating because we already know how this typically ends from first hand experience. I know I lost plenty of fish in my early days due to similar stocking habits. Sadly for people like me and many others here, we didn't have the benefit of an RC where we could gain so much knowledge from others with more experience. Instead we depended on the very establishments that's sole purposes are to move fish regardless of the destination. I.E. The LFS whose best interests typically only reside in their cash drawer. The end result was fish that probably wen't suitable for our tank at the time and ultimately resulted in a high rate of casualties.

It's a shame though because the OP could learn a great deal here. And while he probably didn't mean it, his initial post conveyed an attitude of: "I read a lot here but decided to go with what looks good instead of what is proven to work and after a couple weeks I've learned that you all are wrong". Given the nature of his initial post, I don't think anybody is surprised by the overwhelming response.

Hopefully the OP makes better choices in the future and trusts a bit more in what he reads and trusts a bit less in his LFS.

 

[CuzzA]

True but if it is a negative experience with poor results what value is there in attempting to repeat the process in order to gain that experience? How many times do you have to touch a hot stove and get a burn before you conclude that it is a bad idea?

The two should be combined to increase the chances of long-term success in the terms of years not days or weeks.

The OP has neither but others do and have expressed their opinions through their experiences and education.

Sounds like Einstein's quote regarding insanity doesn't it?

I think you misunderstood the quote. Taking the advice from others who already have the experience and have documented it is a smart decision. (Education) Forgoing or completely ignoring the information available to you will lead only to your own personal experience which will result in what has already been documented and available for people to learn. Yes similar to the definition of insanity.

I'm not condoning what the OP has done. I'm totally against it. It's irresponsible and that kind of attitude leads to more dead fish, which leads to more pressure on species in the wild, which leads to banning collection.

It absolutely amazes me that every week someone on here makes the decision to put a large fish in a small tank. We all know the outcome and the advice is everywhere on this forum and in others, yet they still do it. It's selfish. Furthermore, think about how many people do it who don't share it on the forums. Lots of dead fish.

I said it just a few days ago when participating in a thread on here where someone put a blue hippo tang in a 55 gallon tank... They have no business being in this hobby for they selfishly look at the fish as an ornamental decoration instead of a pet.

I really wish all LFS would ask questions and refuse business if they know the situation is wrong. One of my LFS's is a seasoned hobbyist with many years of experience and I always enjoy reading his rants on facebook about how he basically has to throw idiots out of his store for trying to buy the wrong fish and put it in the wrong setup. It shows he cares more about the fish after it's left the store than how much money is left in his wallet after the sale. Unfortunately, this is not the norm.

 

[KafudaFish]

Got it and good points. Thanks.

 

[Nina51]

I know why!!! Because Great Danes LOVE bacon!!!!


You have a heart of gold! I grew up with Danes.. We have a 5 year old Blue Harlequin. They are the best and sweetest dogs of all IMO! Funny thing is, we have given thought to a pot belly pig too but given all the animals we already have and the fact that Pot Belly's aren't very soft and cuddly, we have thus far passed on that endeavor. They are cute as hell though.

<a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Ninapearl/media/smilies/roflmao.gif.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/Ninapearl/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt=" photo roflmao.gif"/></a> if you only knew how true that statement is! my male dane has an over-the-top prey drive and given the chance, he would make history of a pig in a heartbeat. my female dane would lay down and sleep with the pigs, given half a chance.

my first rescue dane came to me at age 7. she was the gentlest soul ever. i once watched her lay down next to a nest of bunnies and just watch them. she lived to 10, miss that ole girl!

don't discount oinkers as not being affectionate. granted, they are a little bristly and not at all soft but treated with love, they are every bit as affectionate as a dog. i actually have 4. the 3 rescues and arnold ziffel, who i raised from a tiny piglet. when i sat down on the ground, he would crawl up in my lap and go to sleep. when i sit down out there now, all 90# of him still wants to climb into my lap. some things never change.

you should go to the lounge and post pics of your dane! i would LOVE to see him!! they are fantastic dogs and as long as there is breath in my body, i will never be without a couple!

back on topic...

if the fish is healthy and is eating well who cares.

we should all care. we should also buy fish with the intention of keeping it. buying a fish that will get too big for a tank with the idea of either giving it away, selling it, or upgrading is a very bad idea. and just because you think you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[gone fishin]

I read through the whole thread and all I got is I am waiting for the sequel.

 

[slief]

Wow, OP was completely destroyed in this thread. OP is obviously very new to this, and like anyone new, made some poor choices and no doubt overconfident about his ability to "beat the odds". To an experienced person, the mistakes appear so obvious, but again, this is a new person to the hobby. The reason I rarely post to these forums is it is like almost any other internet board - destroy the n00b rather than try to teach and move the hobby forward.

Probably not a popular sentiment, so flame away. My two cents.

<a href="http://s6.photobucket.com/user/Ninapearl/media/smilies/roflmao.gif.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/Ninapearl/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt=" photo roflmao.gif"/></a> if you only knew how true that statement is! my male dane has an over-the-top prey drive and given the chance, he would make history of a pig in a heartbeat. my female dane would lay down and sleep with the pigs, given half a chance.

my first rescue dane came to me at age 7. she was the gentlest soul ever. i once watched her lay down next to a nest of bunnies and just watch them. she lived to 10, miss that ole girl!

don't discount oinkers as not being affectionate. granted, they are a little bristly and not at all soft but treated with love, they are every bit as affectionate as a dog. i actually have 4. the 3 rescues and arnold ziffel, who i raised from a tiny piglet. when i sat down on the ground, he would crawl up in my lap and go to sleep. when i sit down out there now, all 90# of him still wants to climb into my lap. some things never change.

you should go to the lounge and post pics of your dane! i would LOVE to see him!! they are fantastic dogs and as long as there is breath in my body, i will never be without a couple!

This thread is going nowhere fast... LOL
Our dane is a big baby. We have a free roaming house trained 4' iguana who lives in the family room on the couch. The iguana has made our dane his biatch. Our dane is more or less terrified of the iguana and almost every day the iguana will come into the den where the dane usually stays and follows her around and or corrals her into a corner or onto the couch. You know how danes sit on the couch..

A couple weeks ago, the iguana corralled our dane into the laundry room. The dane was cornered and wouldn't move until we picked up the iguana.

We have quite a zoo at our house.. This is some of our clan. Not shown are our two tortoises, one of which is over 80 pounds and our sons chameleon. the only thing we are missing is a bacon seed.

 

[username in use]

What are you using for your inwall speakers?

 

[slief]

What are you using for your inwall speakers?

rbh Reference Signature series inwall's. Si-6100's for the front's, SI-760's for the mid and rear channels & center channels and an SX-12r stand alone powered sub.

 

[username in use]

Nice! What are you using for a screen and amplification? Sounds like you have a nice little theater going there.

 

[slief]

Nice! What are you using for a screen and amplification? Sounds like you have a nice little theater going there.

I'm a bit of a home theater junkie and have been as long as I can remember. When I bought my house in '97, there were 3 key factors. Obviously a place for my tank.. A place for a great home theater and a 3 car garage. I was able to satisfy all those needs. We have 60" Pioneer Elite Plasma for normal viewing. We also have a JVC professional series 1080P projector with a 92" electric screen that drops down from the soffit above the Elite and covers the plasma. This is for when my Napoleon complex kicks in or for certain action movies. Truth is that I rarely use the projector much these days. You can't beat the last generation of Pioneer manufactured Elite plasma's. I've yet to see a picture as good as the one this display produces. I'm waiting for larger OLE Ultra HD displays to become available let alone practical at which point, I would consider an upgrade to something larger but I just love the Pioneers picture quality and black levels. For my receiver, I'm using a 3 year old Pioneer Elite all in one setup. I used to run a Chiro Thx component system but these higher end all in one receivers do a great job with the added benefit of having two HDMI outputs so I can split the signal the projector and the plasma. The Elite receiver eliminated HDMI splitters and switchers.