My first major SPS issue. Picture heavy

[ojonas81]

First some background. I have a 150 gallon tank that has been up and running about 1 year (give or take). Have a build thread here.

The tank had been running for a long time very stable. Got my Ca and Alk. well dialed in and just had to do minor tweaks as i kept adding more SPS frags as well as to compensate for growth. Everything was fine which also was one of the factors to my next decision (which in retrospect may not have been the best). We wen on vacation to Europe for two weeks. Since the tank had been running so well, and I had everything fully automated (including feeding) off my Apex I decided that I did not need someone to come in and check the tank. I also had installed a couple of cameras that I could access remotely to check in on things. I did arrange for an emergency contact to be able to come in should something really bad happen but I never had to utilize that. The bio-load at the time in the tank were also very low.

So this is what happened and where I think everything started to go bad. While on vacation I checked in on my Apex and my cameras every couple of days and it always looked like normal. Nothing that stood out. Somewhere halfway through the vacation I thought that the water movement was less than usual although I could still see ripples on the surface and I confirmed that the return pump still worked as it should. When I came home the tank did not look horrible which was a good sign. Below are two FTS of my tank. One is taken before the vacation (a few weeks) and the other one the day after we got back home (but before any maintenance work was done with the tank).

One thing I noticed immediately was that all four circulation pumps in the tank had stalled out. Turned out they all needed to be cleaned and now 3 of the four pumps are back running. The fourth will be back in operation soon but I broke the impeller during the cleaning process and should get a replacement very soon (hopefully this week).

Decided to do a water change in a few days (as soon as I could mix up all the water) but before that I checked all the parameters. They were as follows:

Sg: 1.029
Alk: 6.0
CA: 565
Mg: 1150
Nitrate: 20
PO4: 0.2

Normally I keep the tank as follows:

Sg: 1.026 (35ppm)
Alk: 9.0
Ca: 430
Mg: 1300
Nitrate: 0-5
PO4: 0.05

The one that really stood out and stumped me was the salinity. I could not figure out how it could have increased so much during the two weeks I was gone. Then it dawned on me. The temporary top-off water container I used (since I needed to be able to store water to last for two full weeks) was also the same brute can I normally use to mix fresh saltwater in. I assume that some salt buildup inside the brute leached into the RO/DI water and thus slowly increased the salinity with each top-off. I am working on slowly bringing it back to where I want it (35ppm) and will hopefully be there by this week.

I have no real explanation for the big swing in both alkalinity and calcium but I am doing daily tests to get it back to normal again. It is however giving me a hard time as it seems like I cannot get it stable as quick as I would like to. Especially the calcium is all over the map. Can get two vastly different results by using either Red Sea Calcium Pro test kit or my Hanna Checker.

As for the nitrate and phosphate I am hoping to bring those levels down by doing more frequent water changes over the next couple of weeks. They have already gone down some. I also have changed out my carbon and GFO since I came back home.

Below (and in the consecutive posts) are a lot of pictures of my current SPS collection. The left side shows how it looks today and the right side shows it off when it was close to its prime (in most cases just before the trip). Anything else I should do that I have not done already? Are there any hope are are all (or at least most of them) lost causes? I should say that some of my SPS (not pictures below) are still doing well. My Green Bali Slimer looks like it always did, same for my Pink and Green Damicornis as well as all my LPS, mushrooms and zoas. My two RBTA are also doing very well.

 

[ojonas81]

 

[ojonas81]

 

[jroovers]

Unfortunately looks like some of your SPS are done in. How long has your tank been up and running? Doesn't look like it has been set up too long? The main concern I would see is the change in alkalinity parameters, and potentially a lack of flow. These two things, combined with other changes (i.e. increase in salinity, increase in phosphates, assuming you meant 0.02 in your pre-vacation parameters), probably is the culprit. Especially in a newer system, with frags that have yet to establish themselves, typically they are going to be less tolerant of changes. Usually you can get away with some things over a short period of time, but two weeks is pushing it.

I would get your parameters back in check and then wait a bit before replacing those SPS frags. In terms of checkers, for Ca I'd tend toward the Hanna checker and stick with that, but not sure how reliable it is - I trust my Hanna alk checker though that it is fairly accurate.

Funny about your Alk, I have the opposite problem, my alk typically stays stable between 7 and 8 dkh, but my Ca always slowly drops from 420 and I have to give it a nudge here and there.

 

[ojonas81]

The tank has been up and running for about 1 year now. Pre-vacation PO4 parameter was hovering around 0.02-0.05.

Think I at least got the Alk. somewhat stable now in the sense that it does not change value very much from day to day. I just need to bring it back up to 9.0 where I want it. Currently it sits around 7.7. Calcium is a different story. I have dosing turned off (was at 550). Two days later it was down to 350. Did a water change and tested again the following day (dosing on but much lower ratio than normal). Back up to around 500. Turn off dosing and the next day I sit at 450. Happy with that I turn dosing back on and swoosh right back to 550 range. Either my test equipment is playing with me or I have a bad batch of Ca mix (BRS 2-part, new batch mixed after I came home but mixed in the same way as any other time). Dosing for Ca used to be around 13ml per hour. Now I am down to around 5ml per hour and still get the big jump each day. Makes no sense and should not be possible.

 

[Piper27]

Looks like you burnt the corals with the got and stripped the nutrients to quick. Did the burnt tips show up after you added fresh gfo when you got back? Or while you were gone?

 

[Piper27]

Are you sure salt in your top off container made your salinity go up that much? That's a lot for salt residue thats stuck in your mixing bin. I have never had any salt residue left in my mixing containers.

 

[ojonas81]

Looks like you burnt the corals with the got and stripped the nutrients to quick. Did the burnt tips show up after you added fresh gfo when you got back? Or while you were gone?

The burnt tips had started before I changed the GFO.

Are you sure salt in your top off container made your salinity go up that much? That's a lot for salt residue thats stuck in your mixing bin. I have never had any salt residue left in my mixing containers.

If you leave some water in the mixing container for a longer time so it evaporates it will leave salt residue. Same with the walls etc in the container. It may not be much but it all adds up. Other than that, since no-one were home messing with the tank, the salinity just don't increase by itself. You need to add salt for that to happen. Cannot think of any other reason for the increase than the top-off container in this case. But I could be wrong.

 

[Piper27]

Make sure there are no leaks in the plumbing would be,my last thought. Really looks like Gfo burn Definatly the opposite of what your parameters changed to when you were gone...

 

[jroovers]

Think I at least got the Alk. somewhat stable now in the sense that it does not change value very much from day to day. I just need to bring it back up to 9.0 where I want it. Currently it sits around 7.7. Calcium is a different story. I have dosing turned off (was at 550). Two days later it was down to 350. Did a water change and tested again the following day (dosing on but much lower ratio than normal). Back up to around 500. Turn off dosing and the next day I sit at 450. Happy with that I turn dosing back on and swoosh right back to 550 range. Either my test equipment is playing with me or I have a bad batch of Ca mix (BRS 2-part, new batch mixed after I came home but mixed in the same way as any other time). Dosing for Ca used to be around 13ml per hour. Now I am down to around 5ml per hour and still get the big jump each day. Makes no sense and should not be possible.

Alk at 7.7 should not be a problem. 6 might be, but probably in of itself not indicative of the problems you are seeing.

Not sure what is going on with your calcium - if you are dosing 2-part, in the amounts indicated for your water volume, you should not be seeing wild swings like that. Is that with your hanna checker or with your other test kit? I use salifert for calcium, and never have I seen the variability you are speaking of. Your calcium levels are also somewhat dependent on your magnesium levels, while 1150 is a bit low it isn't that bad. Either way sounds like a water chemistry problem to me. I'd get your Ca and Alk levels in check, and watch your phosphates - as piper noted, you don't want to strip the nutrients too quickly from the system, but seems like for the majority of your SPS the damage has already been done.

 

[ThorEffex]

The calcium solution is calcium chloride (salt) I have to take water from my tank every so often to decrease my salinity since I don't do water changes. I would get your LFS to double check your test results. Be slow with the alkalinity changes they will cause them sps to recede some more and stress them out, slow and stable is the best way IMO. And it might be a good idea to reduce your light cycle a bit since they all look bleached or dead.

 

[ojonas81]

Make sure there are no leaks in the plumbing would be,my last thought. Really looks like Gfo burn Definatly the opposite of what your parameters changed to when you were gone...

No leaks. I also have leak detectors connected to my Apex to monitor for this.

Alk at 7.7 should not be a problem. 6 might be, but probably in of itself not indicative of the problems you are seeing.

Not sure what is going on with your calcium - if you are dosing 2-part, in the amounts indicated for your water volume, you should not be seeing wild swings like that. Is that with your hanna checker or with your other test kit? I use salifert for calcium, and never have I seen the variability you are speaking of. Your calcium levels are also somewhat dependent on your magnesium levels, while 1150 is a bit low it isn't that bad. Either way sounds like a water chemistry problem to me. I'd get your Ca and Alk levels in check, and watch your phosphates - as piper noted, you don't want to strip the nutrients too quickly from the system, but seems like for the majority of your SPS the damage has already been done.

The first swing in the results was between Hanna Checker and Red Sea Calcium Pro. Will try to only use Hanna going forward to get some consistency in the results.

The calcium solution is calcium chloride (salt) I have to take water from my tank every so often to decrease my salinity since I don't do water changes. I would get your LFS to double check your test results. Be slow with the alkalinity changes they will cause them sps to recede some more and stress them out, slow and stable is the best way IMO. And it might be a good idea to reduce your light cycle a bit since they all look bleached or dead.

May do that and see what they come up with. You are right that the calcium chloride is technically salt. Did not think of that. Although it should not have increased the salinity that much over just two weeks but it may have added to the issue. The good thing is that the salinity is the easiest of my parameters to get back into stable territory.

Should I at this point expect all the SPS that look bad now to seen as lost causes or is there a chance for them to bounce back still assuming I can get all the parameters stable again?

 

[jroovers]

You are right that the calcium chloride is technically salt. Did not think of that. Although it should not have increased the salinity that much over just two weeks but it may have added to the issue. The good thing is that the salinity is the easiest of my parameters to get back into stable territory.

The addition of calcium chloride should not raise your salinity level to any practical degree if you are measuring and doing regular water changes/adjusting. I wouldn't advise going the no water change route, but to each their own.

Should I at this point expect all the SPS that look bad now to seen as lost causes or is there a chance for them to bounce back still assuming I can get all the parameters stable again?

A number of them that are completely white are definitely dead and won't bounce back. A couple of them may be hanging on by a thread, but it doesn't look promising. It could take them a very long time to recover, if at all.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Sorry for for issues
Sg: 1.029 way to high lower it to 1.025
Alk: 6.0 needs to be between 7 and 9
CA: 565 way to high this is causing your alk to go down keep it at 425/450
Mg: 1150 way to low raise it to 1350
Nitrate: 20 way to high lower it to 5 with water changes
PO4: 0.2 a little low could be at 0.03

 

[ojonas81]

Did a large water change last night and noticed something strange. Took Sg, Alk and Ca tests before and after the change in order to see what was happening.

Test results before water change:
Sg: 1.0275
Alk: 8.5 (have slowly been raising it)
Ca: 565

Test results after water change:
Sg: 1.025
Alk: 7.8
Ca: 380

Salinity is back to where I want it finally. Was a little surprised that both Ca and Alk went down with the change but guess that has to do with that I removed water with a higher concentration than it should and replaced it with fresh water at a lower salinity than normal (in order to bring down the salinity) which would have a lower concentration than normal. Am I thinking correctly here?

See some comments below in red as well.

Sorry for for issues
Sg: 1.029 way to high lower it to 1.025 Down to 1.025 now.
Alk: 6.0 needs to be between 7 and 9 Not perfect but within acceptable range now. Like to keep my alkalinity at 9.0
CA: 565 way to high this is causing your alk to go down keep it at 425/450 Closer to where I want it now at 380. Will try to get it back to around 430 over the next couple of days.
Mg: 1150 way to low raise it to 1350 I agree. Need to get my Mg dosing station up and running soon. Have been relying on water changes and occasional manual dosing up until now.
Nitrate: 20 way to high lower it to 5 with water changes Will test for this tonight after two water changes been made. Should hopefully be much lower by now.
PO4: 0.2 a little low could be at 0.03 It was sitting at 0.20, not 0.02, so I am way high. Will test tonight and hopefully it has come down with the water changes made.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Your levels could have droped because of the salt you are using and that's a good thing. Just keep an eye on your alk as I find this to be the most important. Keep us posted and go slow as nothing good happens fast In this hobby.

Michael

 

[dg3147]

I just posted a resolution to a similar issue. my thread is here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2374737

 

[outssider]

going from 565 to 380 doesn't sound right to me. either your testing is off or your water change was seriously low in calcium. maybe check some fresh made water for calcium and dkh.

 

[ojonas81]

I am hoping my testing was way off. Will check a fresh batch of saltwater next time I mix one just to be sure. The salinity of the new saltwater was low on purpose and so should then the calcium be as well.

Did a fresh test tonight and came up with the following:

Alk: 7.9
Ca: 379
NO3: 0.25
PO4: 0.09

Looks like I may have stabilized the alkalinity and calcium for now. Just need to raise the calcium level some to 430. Phosphate is also going down but still a little higher than what I would like.

 

[Chrisrush]

From the pictures, some of the corals will be fine (miami orchid), but others (unknown blue/green) don't appear to have much flesh left. If you see polyps left, and the params stablize, then you should be fine. Just get them healthy again and the color will return.