My journey using Chloroquine Phosphate begins...

[Chicago]

thank you.. I have been using Methylene blue in my QT.. but some of the angles are doing the scratch on the pvc.. no white dots but thinking ick is around the corner..

 

[JoshuaG]

I wish we knew if CP killed the trophant stage, when it actually has fallen off the fish. Seems if you put an infected fish in a new clean tank and treated with CP for 10 days, that is all you would need to do to irradicate the disease as the meds would kill them as they fell off the fish.

 

[Elliott]

I can tell you from experience 10 days is not enough time, I've tried it

 

[Deinonych]

this is how I understand it to be as well. although I haven't had to use it yet, several people using it for QT says dose once and only dose again when you do water changes, but keep dose at right levels for minimum 2 months QT is ideal.

2 months is probably not necessary, and may have adverse effects on some fish (although this is inconclusive without further study). 30 days should suffice in most instances, IMO.

 

[Psionicdragon]

So I emailed fishman as I was a bit ticked. I do believe they know what they are selling, but still not sure about their quality:

"We have thousands of customers who have used this same material with satisfactory results. Are you positive it is ich, and not fungus. Fungus can be mistaken for ich quite easily, and can only be treated with Acriflavine Neutral. Please also be sure you are dosing as follows. 25 grams per 1000 gallons daily for ten straight days. Administer a dose after doing a minimum 20% waterchange. After administering medicine, all filtration should be turned off, including skimmers and UV, for the first 6-8 hours. After this period, all activity of the Chloroquine is spent due to oxidation, so then turn all filtration back on high. You are now trying to remove all medication and dead parasites from the water before administering the next days dose. Chloroquine is also very unpalletable for fish, so if they refuse to eat, this is the reason. Treatment must continue."

 

[JoshuaG]

I can tell you from experience 10 days is not enough time, I've tried it

Was this with the fish in a new tank before any tomonts have formed?

 

[HumbleFish]

"We have thousands of customers who have used this same material with satisfactory results. Are you positive it is ich, and not fungus. Fungus can be mistaken for ich quite easily, and can only be treated with Acriflavine Neutral. Please also be sure you are dosing as follows. 25 grams per 1000 gallons daily for ten straight days. Administer a dose after doing a minimum 20% waterchange. After administering medicine, all filtration should be turned off, including skimmers and UV, for the first 6-8 hours. After this period, all activity of the Chloroquine is spent due to oxidation, so then turn all filtration back on high. You are now trying to remove all medication and dead parasites from the water before administering the next days dose. Chloroquine is also very unpalletable for fish, so if they refuse to eat, this is the reason. Treatment must continue."

Wow, where do I even start? For one, fungus is extremely rare in s/w fish. Anyone with any knowledge of s/w fish diseases knows this. And 99% pure CP lasts for weeks, if not months, once dosed in the water column... it doesn't get "spent" after 6-8 hrs.

I don't know what these people are peddling, but it's not 99% pure CP. It sounds like they've come up with their own concoction - CP mixed with various fillers. And by dosing everyday it somehow all evens out in the end. But even so, 10 days is not nearly long to ensure you get all the theronts (playing it safe, assuming CP works the same as copper).

Quite honestly, I wouldn't trust advice from these people to treat a guppy.

 

[HumbleFish]

I can tell you from experience 10 days is not enough time, I've tried it

What dosage level did you treat at?

 

[Elliott]

Was this with the fish in a new tank before any tomonts have formed?

yes, fish with Ich transferred to hospital tank, treated with CP at 1g per 25 gallons for 10 days, then transferred fish back to DT and quickly became infested with Ich and died

now I treat for minimum of 30 days for QT purposes, however if fish have Ich or Velvet I treat for 60 - 90 days and if they get it again I go another 60 - 90 days, I only treat once with CP and add back losses from WC's

 

[Deinonych]

wow, where do i even start? For one, fungus is extremely rare in s/w fish. Anyone with any knowledge of s/w fish diseases knows this. And 99% pure cp lasts for weeks, if not months, once dosed in the water column... It doesn't get "spent" after 6-8 hrs.

I don't know what these people are peddling, but it's not 99% pure cp. It sounds like they've come up with their own concoction - cp mixed with various fillers. And by dosing everyday it somehow all evens out in the end. But even so, 10 days is not nearly long to ensure you get all the theronts (playing it safe, assuming cp works the same as copper).

Quite honestly, i wouldn't trust advice from these people to treat a guppy.

+1

 

[HumbleFish]

yes, fish with Ich transferred to hospital tank, treated with CP at 1g per 25 gallons for 10 days, then transferred fish back to DT and quickly became infested with Ich and died

Wait a min... was the infected fish transferred back into the same tank it was taken from?? 10 days later?

 

[Deinonych]

yes, fish with Ich transferred to hospital tank, treated with CP at 1g per 25 gallons for 10 days, then transferred fish back to DT and quickly became infested with Ich and died

If the fish had cryptocaryon in the DT before you transferred them to the HT, the DT itself is infected with crypt tomonts. You have to leave the DT fallow (fishless) for a minimum of 9 weeks to allow the parasite to die off. Treating with CP in a hospital tank without resolving the parasite problem in the DT is an infinite loop.

 

[JoshuaG]

yes, fish with Ich transferred to hospital tank, treated with CP at 1g per 25 gallons for 10 days, then transferred fish back to DT and quickly became infested with Ich and died

now I treat for minimum of 30 days for QT purposes, however if fish have Ich or Velvet I treat for 60 - 90 days and if they get it again I go another 60 - 90 days, I only treat once with CP and add back losses from WC's

Your DT had ich, you could have cured it in hospital tank simply to have them get infected again as soon as you put them back in the DT.

 

[Elliott]

If the fish had cryptocaryon in the DT before you transferred them to the HT, the DT itself is infected with crypt tomonts. You have to leave the DT fallow (fishless) for a minimum of 9 weeks to allow the parasite to die off. Treating with CP in a hospital tank without resolving the parasite problem in the DT is an infinite loop.

no, fish purchased and went into new tank, not from DT

after treatment for 10 days Ich appeared to be gone but came back after transferred into DT, there had been no Ich in DT previously

 

[Psionicdragon]

Wow, where do I even start? For one, fungus is extremely rare in s/w fish. Anyone with any knowledge of s/w fish diseases knows this. And 99% pure CP lasts for weeks, if not months, once dosed in the water column... it doesn't get "spent" after 6-8 hrs.

I don't know what these people are peddling, but it's not 99% pure CP. It sounds like they've come up with their own concoction - CP mixed with various fillers. And by dosing everyday it somehow all evens out in the end. But even so, 10 days is not nearly long to ensure you get all the theronts (playing it safe, assuming CP works the same as copper).

Quite honestly, I wouldn't trust advice from these people to treat a guppy.

Wait wait I didn't point out what I meant in regards to they know their stuff and I didn't mention fresh/salt water to the person.

"Chloroquine is also very unpalletable for fish, so if they refuse to eat, this is the reason. Treatment must continue"

Anyway, after a large water change with carbon and skimmer back on, my tank became cloudy.

Here is the update on death:

3 Labouti
3 hooded/Nahackyi
1 Lineatus
1 Imperator
1 Barlett
1 Blue sided wrasse


Man...this has been a terrible learning experiencing.

 

[Psionicdragon]

Truly sorry about your loss.

I hate to hear about anyone loosing fishes. A local dealer who has a lot of fishes come through his system has both captive bred clownfishes and imported wild caught everything. He use to copper his tank, but between clownfishes coming in with brook or other fishes with ich or velvet, he had guesswork when they stopped eating as treatment for brook vs velvet are completely different.

Now he uses CP for quarantine and never had any issues at 60mg/gal single dose. He does weekly water changes on his quarantine system, so needs to dose back up to whatever amount of water comes out. He hasn't had any disease outbreak in the 5 months he's been using CP. Even when he sees signs of disease, he increase dosage up to 75mg/gal and it disappears. As a precaution for his own display tank, nothing goes in unless it's been quarantined 2 months minimum. If there's any signs of disease, especially Velvet, then 3 months minimum quarantine.

So, dose once... not this 10 days straight with too weak of dosage to do anything, no wonder your fishes died. Fishman's gave you bad advice. My local dealer also using Fishman's CP, no issue whatsoever. Sometimes when a disease has gone too far, no matter what you do, it's too late. Need to catch in time and dose at the right strength.

Thanks...I am thinking about just shutting the tank down...don't even want to deal with it anymore.

 

[JoshuaG]

no, fish purchased and went into new tank, not from DT

after treatment for 10 days Ich appeared to be gone but came back after transferred into DT, there had been no Ich in DT previously

What steps did you take to make sure your DT is ich free to start with?

 

[HumbleFish]

Thanks...I am thinking about just shutting the tank down...don't even want to deal with it anymore.

Don't do that. Just learn from your mistakes and move on from them. Mistake #1 was not QT'ing your fish before putting them in the DT. Mistake #2 was getting bad advice & CP from Fishman (not really your fault).

I also suspect you are dealing with Velvet here; not Ich. Usually when fish start dropping like flies... it's Velvet. Sorry for your losses.

 

[Deinonych]

Don't do that. Just learn from your mistakes and move on from them.

+1

We've all been there; it's hard to lose fish, especially when you are trying your best to keep them alive and thriving. To quote Thomas Edison, "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."

 

[scuzy]

Quarantine from the start is your best bet. Since starting my 210 I quarantine all fish for 4 weeks. I had very good luck with cp from fishman compare to cuppramine since with copper I tend to get secondary infection more than when treating with cp.